Roster Building XVII: Some Of Us Like Some Parts Of Our Group

[Sigurd]

As much as some Canucks fans want to think about the high end futures of an Anaheim or Columbus, odds are that Pettersson doesn't want to play there. And he, not the Canucks, controls his market, if made available. Just like M. Tkachuk.

I have no reason to doubt that the Canes would pursue him. Expensive expected contract, but too good of a fit to not make an exception for. Given where the Canes are competitively and what else the market has to offer (weather, anonymity), I'd expect the team to be on his short-list too.

If he doesn't want to play for Vancouver, then obviously that changes things despite Vancouver doing a 180 this season. He's the exact kind of forward we should use big trade assets for. I said it before and I'll say it again, having Pettersson and Aho as our top 2 centermen would make an excellent one-two punch. That's like NHL 24 levels of center depth.

Any EP deal will happen after the season, surely.

I agree, and that makes things more difficult for our front office IMO. On the one hand, we need to make at least one trade at this year's deadline that is a legit improvement for our playoff push for this year, but on the other hand, if a super star forward like EP will be traded this summer, you don't want to empty the coffers too much and not have enough of the higher quality assets for him.

There's obviously no guarantee he will be (A) traded this summer, and (B) even less of a guarantee he will be traded to Carolina despite us and EP being a great fit IMO.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

If he doesn't want to play for Vancouver, then obviously that changes things despite Vancouver doing a 180 this season. He's the exact kind of forward we should use big trade assets for. I said it before and I'll say it again, having Pettersson and Aho as our top 2 centermen would make an excellent one-two punch. That's like NHL 24 levels of center depth.

I agree, and that makes things more difficult for our front office IMO. On the one hand, we need to make at least one trade at this year's deadline that is a legit improvement for our playoff push for this year, but on the other hand, if a super star forward like EP will be traded this summer, you don't want to empty the coffers too much and not have enough of the higher quality assets for him.

There's obviously no guarantee he will be (A) traded this summer, and (B) even less of a guarantee he will be traded to Carolina despite us and EP being a great fit IMO.

Considering the load of teams with almost no cap space wanting to make trades, there are certainly going to be 75% retainment opportunities out there where the Canes can get some more draft capital for cap space. Penny stocks are unsexy but increasing your draft pick frequency is useful. The Canes also have plenty of assets to acquire a young player with term (Zegras comes to mind but there are others, as well). If the unlikely EP scenario happens, said young player could be flippable to Vancouver.

 

[raynman]

Aho would likely be elated. You think Crosby wasn’t jumping up and down when the Penguins lucked into Malkin?

They’d figure it out.

Malkin was drafted in ‘04

 

[Joe McGrath]

Any EP deal will happen after the season, surely.

Necas too I would think.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think that the difference between all of you guys and me is that I'm pretty sure that the EP train has sailed now that Vancouver has proven that they can actually win with their core group. I could be very wrong, but there's not the same degree of roster uncertainty in Vancouver as there was with Calgary, where Johnny Hockey's departure to the east gave an extra wrinkle to the Tkachuk camp despite a very good prior season. In Vancouver, Hughes, Miller, and (likely) Hronek are all there for the long-haul. This new wind of Pettersson rumors all feels like a load of wish-casting from fans and news media-types that this is another Tkachuk situation waiting to happen. I flat-out don't buy it.

 

[spockBokk]

Malkin was drafted in ‘04

ok then, it was Malkin doing the jumping up and down

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I dont think EP40 goes anywhere either but we could discuss which middle six forward we prefer: Patches, Duclair, Zucker or another name cuz that is our realm of likely addition. We have kind of beat all of Kahn's horses dead though.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I dont think EP40 goes anywhere either but we could discuss which middle six forward we prefer: Patches, Duclair, Zucker or another name cuz that is our realm of likely addition. We have kind of beat all of Kahn's horses dead though.

Pacioretty is my #1 choice and Zucker is my #2. Even if Pacioretty is stuck on the bench due to guys like Noesen and Drury continuing to overperform, he'd be fantastic for the locker room.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Like I said, EP40 is a dream. I don't think he leaves Van either.

 

[MinJaBen]

Given our style and coach, and the contracts existing or rumored, I’d rather have Brady Tkachuk over EP40.

 

[bleedgreen]

EP is a real easy choice. Obviously paying him around 11 million + isnt ideal (between taxes and the stronger US dollar we should be able to get him cheaper than 12 million) but if we truly believe in our prospects we should be able to run a ELC in the top 6 and one in the bottom 6 with at least 2 elsewhere to still have a really strong team. KK would have to be moved too

Svech-Aho-ELC
Bunting-EP-Jarvis
Martinook-Staal-Fast
Cheap vet-Pono-FUS

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Decent 2RD
Cheaper vet-cheaper vet (assuming morrow is in the deal)

Kooch
Andersen

that is easily doable.

You see EP as the 2C? If we got him Aho immediately takes a back seat there.

It’s a nice thought, though I don’t know that KK is easy to move right now. Years of a player with an undefined role or style, limited success so you’d have to be seeing things that haven’t really been shown for you to have that kind of faith in him. I think he’s ours for a few years like it or not.

I think 11 is the low end number. I’ve heard the talking heads saying the numbers are closer to 13. Maybe that’s just a “that’s the cost of me staying in Vancouver” and he’d be cheaper somewhere else. I think he’s a player that restricts your cap and you maybe don’t get the value you need for that price.

@Boom Boom Apathy ….my bad! Dream away my friends. I’ll go be contrarian elsewhere.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You see EP as the 2C? If we got him Aho immediately takes a back seat there.

It’s a nice thought, though I don’t know that KK is easy to move right now. Years of a player with an undefined role or style, limited success so you’d have to be seeing things that haven’t really been shown for you to have that kind of faith in him. I think he’s ours for a few years like it or not.

I think 11 is the low end number. I’ve heard the talking heads saying the numbers are closer to 13. Maybe that’s just a “that’s the cost of me staying in Vancouver” and he’d be cheaper somewhere else. I think he’s a player that restricts your cap and you maybe don’t get the value you need for that price.

@Boom Boom Apathy ….my bad! Dream away my friends. I’ll go be contrarian elsewhere.

I don’t think who is 1C and who is 2C is overly important. Both will get a ton of ice time

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t think who is 1C and who is 2C is overly important. Both will get a ton of ice time

I don’t disagree but it would impact Aho’s overall ice time and usage. A good problem to have.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don’t disagree but it would impact Aho’s overall ice time and usage. A good problem to have.

In Vancouver, EP40 gets 19:39 TOI and and JT Miller gets 19:38 TOI, Blueger gets 15:25.

In Carolina, Aho gets 19:36 TOI and Staal gets 15:41.

I don't think we'll see much less overall ice time and usage if we had a 2nd legit C added to the team.

 

[bleedgreen]

In Vancouver, EP40 gets 19:39 TOI and and JT Miller gets 19:38 TOI, Blueger gets 15:25.

In Carolina, Aho gets 19:36 TOI and Staal gets 15:41.

I don't think we'll see much less overall ice time and usage if we had a 2nd legit C added to the team.

Seeing as they’re both centers there’s a chance one gets one pp and the other gets the second unit for balance. Whoever gets the 2nd pp would get less time over the year. Also if all three keep their time that leaves about 5 minutes for the fourth line? Staal isn’t losing any time. I think if it’s Aho/EP they’d both likely take a small hit so the whole team plays….which is generally a thing with us. I’m not saying it’s huge but I think there’d be a drop. I also think EP would get a small nod over Aho, especially if he had the better wingers.

 

[Chrispy]

I also think EP would get a small nod over Aho, especially if he had the better wingers.

Which gets to a different issue. The wings are Svech, Jarvis, and? Is Aho playing with Bunting and Fast in this scenario?

Necas is gone in such a deal. Maybe Turbo signs. With $11-13M tied up in EP there's a lot riding on Sorum, Koivunen, Nadeau, and some under the radar signings.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Pettersson would make the Canes top heavy, but not egregiously so. If you generously estimate Pettersson at $12 mil and bridge Jarvis at say $5 mil, the core 4 of Pettersson/Aho/Svechnikov/Jarvis would account for 39.42% of an $87.5 mil cap. That number would come down in 25-26.

Looking at the 4 highest paid forwards, the Hawks and Kings did trade cups in the lower-mid 30s. The 2016 and 2017 Pens spent 40.96% and 40.07% on Malkin/Crosby/Kessel/Hornqvist. The 2018 Caps allocated 39.72% on Ovechkin/Kuznetsov/Backstrom/Oshie. The Lightning (Kucherov/Stamkos/Point/Palat) won at 36.87% (x2). Vegas (Eichel/Stone/Karlsson/Marchessault) won at 36.85%.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Seeing as they’re both centers there’s a chance one gets one pp and the other gets the second unit for balance. Whoever gets the 2nd pp would get less time over the year. Also if all three keep their time that leaves about 5 minutes for the fourth line? Staal isn’t losing any time. I think if it’s Aho/EP they’d both likely take a small hit so the whole team plays….which is generally a thing with us. I’m not saying it’s huge but I think there’d be a drop. I also think EP would get a small nod over Aho, especially if he had the better wingers.

There's a chance, but I don't think that's a given. Petterson and JT Miller played on the same PP. Aho and Trocheck played on the same PP. Zib and Trocheck (in NY) play on the same PP. Tavares and Matthews play on the same PP. etc.. etc...

Regarding Staal, it doesn't really work like that since there will be overlap if they are on the same PP. So in a 60 min game, if Aho and EP both play 19:30, but 3:00 on the PP is when both of them are on the ice the math goes like this:

Together: 3:00
Alone 1: 16:30
Alone 2: 16:30
Staal: 15
4th line: 9

This ignores other times when two C's are on the ice together (PK situations, line changes, after penalties, etc..) and OT. With all that, a 4C would be closer to 10 min / game which is not unreasonable if we had a strong top 6.

There might be some reduction in TOI, but I don't think it would be that much.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Seeing as they’re both centers there’s a chance one gets one pp and the other gets the second unit for balance. Whoever gets the 2nd pp would get less time over the year. Also if all three keep their time that leaves about 5 minutes for the fourth line? Staal isn’t losing any time. I think if it’s Aho/EP they’d both likely take a small hit so the whole team plays….which is generally a thing with us. I’m not saying it’s huge but I think there’d be a drop. I also think EP would get a small nod over Aho, especially if he had the better wingers.

There’s no chance they would play on separate power plays. The Oilers have 3 centers in their top unit. The only reason the Canes don’t now is because their non Aho centers stink.

 

[bleedgreen]

There’s no chance they would play on separate power plays. The Oilers have 3 centers in their top unit. The only reason the Canes don’t now is because their non Aho centers stink.

I don’t know, Rod loves balance whether on special teams or 5v5. I could see him trying to split them up if they were struggling and if one unit had chemistry and success after that I don’t think he’d change it until they ran dry. That could go most of a season. I agree he’d probably try them together first.

 

[AD Skinner]

Mantha and Pacioretty both with nice games against Ottawa. Not sure if Washington is ready to sell even if it’s not looking likely they make the cut

Edit: on the other hand though they are only 4 points behind the flyers with two games in hand. They win them both and they’re right in the thick of it

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Pronman: Top college, CHL and European free agents for NHL teams

Ranking this year’s class of free agents coming out of the CHL, NCAA and major European leagues.

theathletic.com

Some interesting names on this list that we could realistically offer a chance to compete for a roster spot next year with our cap crunch. Will they? Who knows.
All notes are Pronman’s.

I’ll highlight some:

we’ll likely need some cheap 4th liners (because we aren’t likely going to waste FUS, Blake or Koivunen’s development there)
Maxim Tsyplakov, RW, Spartak-KHL- big, physical, can score. Foot speed is slow.
Oscar Eklind, LW, Lulea-SHL, 6’4 and physical. Hockey IQ/vision isn’t great but his skating is good

Because we lack goalie depth that is AHL ready next year:
Victor Ostman, G, Maine-Hockey East, we likely get good looks at him regularly. Maybe we see something.

We’ll need bottom pairing defenders next year:
Drew Bavaro, RHD, Notre Dame-Big Ten, big, skates well. He doesn’t move the puck well.
Samuel Mayer, LHD, Ottawa, size, foot speed is good. His first step, play with the puck and not a lot of transferable offense are his weaknesses.

Because we may need some top 6 ELC scoring coupled with decent defense:
Collin Graf, RW, Quinnipiac-ECAC, we have 2 of his teammates. He is the only middle 6 capable guy listed. Has a lot of offense and puck skills. He can be too perimeter focused at times (he’ll fit in).

Just some names that could push our prospects not named Pono for a roster spot, especially with the spots that will be open and needing cheap depth.

I’d shoot for one of the defenders, Eklind, and Graf to see who can make the roster. We’ll be competing with teams like TB who may guarantee them a roster spot instead of a chance to earn it.

 

[Stickpucker]

Form of a LHD with poor skating, big, but plays soft.

Ah so Edmundson.

 

[Stickpucker]

Best D in the league?

I like Nikishin as much as the next guy but the hype train is getting to be a bit much. If B Tkachuk were truly available and it took Nikishin + to get him, bye bye Nikishin. I’d take the sure thing.

My first thought is this could be the Chris Pronger trade all over again.

 

[MinJaBen]

There’s no chance they would play on separate power plays. The Oilers have 3 centers in their top unit. The only reason the Canes don’t now is because their non Aho centers stink.