Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII:

[Avery16]

I can’t wait for the DeAngelo trade speculation to be over. Will be as soon as he’s signed it very easily may be some of the dumbest speculation I’ve seen on these boards. On what planet do you ever trade away a 24 year old righty Dman that is one of 3 in the entire league with 15 goals and 50 plus pts. Only Carlson and Josi are in that class. Absolutely idiotic.

I agree that you lose any trade that has ADA going the other way, but this is the cap era and we have some serious restrictions going forward. I think thats the only reason its being discussed at all.

 

[Leetch3]

I can’t wait for the DeAngelo trade speculation to be over. Will be as soon as he’s signed it very easily may be some of the dumbest speculation I’ve seen on these boards. On what planet do you ever trade away a 24 year old righty Dman that is one of 3 in the entire league with 15 goals and 50 plus pts. Only Carlson and Josi are in that class. Absolutely idiotic.

if you think signing a contract will end trade speculation I would like to introduce you to mr trouba.

 

[Avery16]

if you think signing a contract will end trade speculation I would like to introduce you to mr trouba.

All speculation regarding Mr. Trouba ends once his NTC kicks in either way. His situation is pretty unique.

 

[QJL]

Best offensive defenseman this team has had since Leetch. Lock him up. Do what they did with McDonough. Successful franchises lock up their young guys early - and they pick the right guys. You might get him at 6 now. You could be looking at 8.5-9 in a couple of years. Why has he peaked? Maybe he has, but this was his breakout year. Kinda odd that you’re betting against him after the year he just had.

I like him better offensively than Chabot and right now he’s better offensively than Fox. Carlson isn’t exactly a young man so we’ll see how he ages. ADA is def a top 10 offensive defenseman in the league right now, and you might be able to make an argument that he’s top 5. Kind of bizarre that you don’t want to lock up ADA bc you don’t consider him in your top 6 offensive defensemen league wide going forward, but then want to lock up Chytil who hasn’t established himself as a 2nd line center yet. So is he even a top 60 center in the league? Don’t get me wrong - I think he’ll develop into a 2C but ADA has proven it. Chytil hasn’t.

1. That's six players.
2. Your question only makes sense if we have a chance to sign any of those on top of Fox.
3. DeAngelo is better than Chytil.

And before we hear the "He sucks defensively" argument... Possession players have more turnovers. Possession players positively impact your team. Possession is the most important thing in hockey.

Back to the players you listed:

John Carlson is 30. Pass
Makar and Hughes aren't better than DeAngelo defensively, at the moment
Dahlin isn't as good offensively as DeAngelo

Fox and Chabot are the only ones I would take over DeAngelo. And one of them we already have. The other won't be available.

Offensively I have Makar as roughly equivalent and Dahlin/Hughes might get there. I don't think any of the others have the potential to get to his level. Carlson had an insane season but he just doesn't have the skill level of Makar/DeAngelo, so I'm (perhaps unfairly) writing it off as a fluke.

I find it odd that you think my assessment of him as being worth $6.5m-$7.5m is a bet against him. Even if he becomes a top 5 offensive defenseman, his defense has a long way to go before he becomes an 8 figure guy. I don’t see it.

Fox may have been a bit short on numbers but I’m surprised anyone here thinks DeAngelo will be better offensively going forward. 3 year age gap and DeAngelo has all the first unit power play time.

You can all stop twisting my words making it look like I think Chytil is a more valuable player than DeAngelo, not even close. We have four stud righty D in the organization and one center. That’s the only reason I’d put long term money into Chytil and not DeAngelo.

Chabot is easily a more valuable asset than DeAngelo going forward. Offensively and defensively. Not close. So is Hughes. So is Makar.

Again, I’m a huge DeAngelo fan. I’d I’m any other team in the NHL, I’m locking him up long term. I just don’t think that’s the best way to spend our cap right now.

Is anyone here really willing to spend money on DeAngelo if it makes it more difficult to sign Shesterkin, Kakko, Fox, and Zib long term? If you pay Tony now, you’re missing out on one or more of those deals long term. That may be the right decision in 2 years, I’m just not making that bet right now if I don’t have to.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Chabot is easily a more valuable asset than DeAngelo going forward. Offensively and defensively. Not close. So is Hughes. So is Makar.

I will just stick to this little bit. Talking about Chabot, Makar, Hughes and Dahlin is irrelevant. They are never available. Why did we sign Gaborik when he was not as good as Ovechkin? Why did we trade for Trouba when he's not as good as Hedman?

 

[QJL]

I will just stick to this little bit. Talking about Chabot, Makar, Hughes and Dahlin is irrelevant. They are never available. Why did we sign Gaborik when he was not as good as Ovechkin? Why did we trade for Trouba when he's not as good as Hedman?

Read back through the argument. I’m responding to someone saying DeAngelo is going to be worth $10m in 2 years so we should pay him now. My argument is that he won’t be worth that much morr in 21-22 and that the option of spending $1-2m more in a few years gives is worth the time to make the right decisions on the right side. That’s why I’m advocating for a bridge. I was using those players as examples of a higher tier of defenseman that might be closer to that 8 figure number.

 

[ETTER DE]

I can’t wait for the DeAngelo trade speculation to be over. Will be as soon as he’s signed it very easily may be some of the dumbest speculation I’ve seen on these boards. On what planet do you ever trade away a 24 year old righty Dman that is one of 3 in the entire league with 15 goals and 50 plus pts. Only Carlson and Josi are in that class. Absolutely idiotic.

He has scored the total of 2 goals against teams which are in a playoff position (Toronto and Washington) - 13 against the other 14 teams. Lets keep things in perspective here.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Read back through the argument. I’m responding to someone saying DeAngelo is going to be worth $10m in 2 years so we should pay him now. My argument is that he won’t be worth that much morr in 21-22 and that the option of spending $1-2m more in a few years gives is worth the time to make the right decisions on the right side. That’s why I’m advocating for a bridge. I was using those players as examples of a higher tier of defenseman that might be closer to that 8 figure number.

If you can lock up DeAngelo long-term, you do it. Enough with the bridge deals for contributing players. Leave that shit for your depth players like Howden, Lemieux and Lindgren.

Nashville has been doing it for years. It's the right way to build your team

 

[QJL]

If you can lock up DeAngelo long-term, you do it. Enough with the bridge deals for contributing players. Leave that shit for your depth players like Howden, Lemieux and Lindgren.

Nashville has been doing it for years. It's the right way to build your team

Yeah, I get it, I’m just saying there are at least 4 players in the organization I’m signing long term before DeAngelo by 2022. If Zib, Kakko, Fox, and Shesty end up being worth a combined 40m long term and you can’t lock up those deals because you have Trouba, Kreider and now DeAngelo as your long term bets on top of Panarin, you’ll be kicking yourself.

I just don’t see the downside of waiting 2 more seasons if it means paying DeAngelo 1m-2m more long term. It’s not like hes going to cost double in the future. This is his peak and I’m super happy we have the player we do. Paying him 5m now and 8m from 2022 onward is not a grave mistake. It’s a move that alleviates a ton of risk if we have more valuable assets to sign come his next contract.

 

[Vitto79]

If you can lock up DeAngelo long-term, you do it. Enough with the bridge deals for contributing players. Leave that shit for your depth players like Howden, Lemieux and Lindgren.

Nashville has been doing it for years. It's the right way to build your team

Plus RD are valuable .. if they have to move one later they should be able too

 

[SA16]

There is basically no chance I would sign Shesterkin long term for a ton of money. As far as I'm concerned he's this teams goalie through the ELC and than 3 year bridge or so and then you move on to someone else.

 

[QJL]

Plus RD are valuable .. if they have to move one later they should be able too

Every one of those RHD contracts is going to have an NTC. No doubt.

 

[Vitto79]

Every one of those RHD contracts is going to have an NTC. No doubt.

I don’t see why that’s a necessity

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Every one of those RHD contracts is going to have an NTC. No doubt.

You can't have a NTC/NMC for RFA years. So Fox, DeAngelo and Lundkvist can all be traded without clauses preventing that, until they are 27

 

[SA16]

You can't have a NTC/NMC for RFA years. So Fox, DeAngelo and Lundkvist can all be traded without clauses preventing that, until they are 27

Major issue with the CBA and something that players should require change in the new one (along with conditional picks based on the player re-signing)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, I get it, I’m just saying there are at least 4 players in the organization I’m signing long term before DeAngelo by 2022. If Zib, Kakko, Fox, and Shesty end up being worth a combined 40m long term and you can’t lock up those deals because you have Trouba, Kreider and now DeAngelo as your long term bets on top of Panarin, you’ll be kicking yourself.

I just don’t see the downside of waiting 2 more seasons if it means paying DeAngelo 1m-2m more long term. It’s not like hes going to cost double in the future. This is his peak and I’m super happy we have the player we do. Paying him 5m now and 8m from 2022 onward is not a grave mistake. It’s a move that alleviates a ton of risk if we have more valuable assets to sign come his next contract.

You can keep them most, if not all of them. Cap will go up exponentially before any of this is a real problem and there is nothing wrong with locking in your best players through what are going to be their most productive years.

Just stay away from the Staal-like deals and we're golden.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Major issue with the CBA and something that players should require change in the new one (along with conditional picks based on the player re-signing)

Why is it an issue?

 

[SA16]

Why is it an issue?

Because a player like Trouba used his leverage (unwillingness to sign a deal anywhere other than certain teams) to get a trade to a place he wanted, signed a big deal with a place he wanted yet none of that matters because the team has a year where they can turn around and trade him elsewhere after he signed the deal.

The main issue is that you have players who may take less money in order to get the NTC and then it turns out they get neither the NTC or the money because they can be traded before it kicks in (Stepan, Carter etc.).

The conditional pick issue is obvious in that in reduces the players market by forcing a team to give up something to sign him. DAL may have been willing to offer more to Zuccarello if it didn't cost them trading a 3 for a 1.

 

[leetch99]

Best offensive defenseman this team has had since Leetch. Lock him up. Do what they did with McDonough. Successful franchises lock up their young guys early - and they pick the right guys. You might get him at 6 now. You could be looking at 8.5-9 in a couple of years. Why has he peaked? Maybe he has, but this was his breakout year. Kinda odd that you’re betting against him after the year he just had.

LOL at those that figure Tony has peaked . As the kids get better so will the offensive numbers of Tony...he will hit 80 pts within 3 years easily barring injury . Sign the kid for as little dollars and as long as we can .....he will be a part of the club for at least 2 Cups ... get it done Gorts. We have him...lets enjoy him and reward him .

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Because a player like Trouba used his leverage (unwillingness to sign a deal anywhere other than certain teams) to get a trade to a place he wanted, signed a big deal with a place he wanted yet none of that matters because the team has a year where they can turn around and trade him elsewhere after he signed the deal.

The main issue is that you have players who may take less money in order to get the NTC and then it turns out they get neither the NTC or the money because they can be traded before it kicks in (Stepan, Carter etc.).

The conditional pick issue is obvious in that in reduces the players market by forcing a team to give up something to sign him. DAL may have been willing to offer more to Zuccarello if it didn't cost them trading a 3 for a 1.

You are looking at it from a player's perspective. But the teams matter here as well. If you remove the safeguards they have in the CBA regarding this, it gives too much power to the players and it negates the value of the draft to a degree. The NHL wants to put more emphasis on drafting with the salary cap and the limitations to clauses. It works.

I personally would like to see a hometown discount on the cap. If a player signs with the team that drafted them, it would give them incentive to sign extensions with the team they are with. Possibly a 5% discount for every year they are on the team after their ELC, with a max of 25%. The player can sign for more money with their home team, and puts more emphasis to building through the draft, which in turn would give small market teams a better chance at competing

 

[SA16]

You are looking at it from a player's perspective. But the teams matter here as well. If you remove the safeguards they have in the CBA regarding this, it gives too much power to the players and it negates the value of the draft to a degree. The NHL wants to put more emphasis on drafting with the salary cap and the limitations to clauses. It works.

I personally would like to see a hometown discount on the cap. If a player signs with the team that drafted them, it would give them incentive to sign extensions with the team they are with. Possibly a 5% discount for every year they are on the team after their ELC, with a max of 25%.

I am looking at it from a players perspective and it's incredibly unfair towards them which is why I said it is something they should try to change in the next CBA. The fact that the player can voluntarily take less money in exchange for a NTC (this must be the case else the value of the NTC is zero) and get traded prior to the NTC becoming active so he gets neither the NTC nor the money he passed up does not make sense. It's like if you were offered $100,000 and 30 vacation days from a job and told them I'd rather have $90,000 and 45 vacation days and they agreed to it but then somehow they were able to back out of it and force you to $90,000 and 30 vacation days.

Hometown type discounts on the cap will not be something the players agree to because they hate escrow and that would increase escrow. Now to be fair the players hate escrow and don't seem to understand what it actually is or why it exists (Toews) so they may actually agree to it without knowing.

 

[Kovalev27]

if you think signing a contract will end trade speculation I would like to introduce you to mr trouba.

Christ you’re right

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How great would that be if they did a tourney for 1st overall? I’d love this team’s chances at winning that.

 

[Ola]

NHL really should re-open the trade deadline. These are unprecedented times. Teams will basically be starting off like they're returning from the off-season, except its to a 12-game precursor to the playoffs.

They should do the draft April 4-5 (the teams calling in to someone doing the graphic of course). We need something to put our minds to.

 

[Ishtabeat]

How great would that be if they did a tourney for 1st overall? I’d love this team’s chances at winning that.

We would absolutely win that if it’s non playoff teams. Great “playoff” experience for the kids too. I would love to make the real playoffs but if this was a thing I’d be all for it