Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII - Dust in the wind…

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Also Krav switched agents somewhere around the time (just before?) he bolted...

Yeah, he switched to Milstein in May of 2021.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Kings - Byfield (unattainable), Turcotte, Kupari, Vilardi, Pinelli
Wild - Boldy, Rossi, Khusnutdinov
Ducks - Zegras (unattainable) (for now ), McTavish, Perrault
Canadiens - Jan Mysak
Hurricanes - Suzuki (unfortunately the Hurricanes probably don't want to help us and may not need a D like Nils either)
Stars - Wyatt Johnston, Mavrik Bourque, Ty Dellandrea
Jets - Perfetti, Lucious
Oilers - Holloway

As an example, I'd personally set sights on Johnston, Rossi, or Turcotte as a big fish, and then in a second deal, aim for Holloway, Khusnutdinov, or Mysak.

Thanks and a good list.

I just hope this is the thinking up top, but what will it take to pry a top center prospect from a team? You seldom see those moves made. I wonder which one of those teams really covet a Nils type player and what else in addition to him will it take to get a deal done.

Im scared that if something is pulled off for a center it will be for someone like Lavoie or Bourgault to dumbly appease Lafreniere. Too low of a value. Aim much higher

Rossi, Turcotte, McTavish. Even Perfetti would be better

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'd say so.

With Trouba & Fox and Schneider emerging at such a young age and not looking out of place, the right side is pretty well locked up for the foreseeable future.

I really like Nils, do you play him on the left side? Is it worth it to have a redundant Fox-like player who likely wont get the top PP minutes where he excels?

It's a shame to want to move him, but its a good problem to have at this point. This is what you wanted when the letter was sent out.

That is - if you get the right value back for him. This was the talk during the rebuild. Draft the best available, move up and take key players. Move the assets out to fill holes when needed.

If Nils is moved it would really fulfill that notion to be in a package for a young center. Because he's that good and his value is still very high. But I would really hate to move him for a rental. You dont do that now. Its shortsighted.

So what team has a bevy of top young centers in their farm like the Rangers have on D? Even if the kid doesnt play right now and improve the team for this run, its worth making the move and including the 2nd rounder if you have to. Thats a damn good package for the right young center who is a Nils level center prospect elsewhere.

Jones > Nils

Robertson is someone that is more likely a long term solution to the bottom pair though.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

How do you think Kravstov will respond if they bring him over and he's a healthy scratch or playing on the 4th line? That's probably a more likely scenario than him immediately jumping into top six minutes.

Imo they have to play him unless he's a total disaster and in that case whats the difference i guess. From what ive seen of him there's no reason to not have him in the lineup over McKegg, Hunt, and Gauthier so i dont see that being an issue. I'd see him on the 3rd line behind Lafreniere and Kakko on the right side.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Thanks and a good list.

I just hope this is the thinking up top, but what will it take to pry a top center prospect from a team? You seldom see those moves made. I wonder which one of those teams really covet a Nils type player and what else in addition to him will it take to get a deal done.

Im scared that if something is pulled off for a center it will be for someone like Lavoie or Bourgault to dumbly appease Lafreniere. Too low of a value. Aim much higher

Rossi, Turcotte, McTavish. Even Perfetti would be better

The extra-dumb (but very plausible) choice to appease Lafreniere is WJC superstar Barrett Hayton

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The extra-dumb (but very plausible) choice to appease Lafreniere is WJC superstar Barrett Hayton

Fits the Rangers like a glove

 

[DanielBrassard]

What ever happened to Rakell? how did he go from 30 goal scorer to mid-high teens? Is it in sync with Getzlaf's decline?

His shooting percentage dropped off a cliff after that, but the funny thing is his shot rate is right in line with where it used to be when he was scoring 30 goals. Maybe getting him out of Anaheim would work wonders for him.

 

[Lgrsean]

There aren't. There is no one available who is going to get this team over the hump to win a Cup this year.

There's a huge difference in what you and I believe this Rangers team is capable of. You can have your opinion, but when you have a clear Vezina favorite, last year's Norris winner, a solid D core, a few PPG forwards and the leading goal scorer in the league on a 113 points pace, you've got the talent to take your shot.

This team needs long term top 6 forwards with skill in general. It specifically (as opposed to generally) needs probably 2 young centers for it's top 9.

I don't know what the exact composition of those additions needs to be, but we need more. Who player B needs to be, might depend on who player A is.

I do know that a package of Lundkvist, Kravtsov, a first, and another add, is probably enough to bring back the next Eichel or Stone level player who becomes available.

Even after getting that type of long term player, it's gonna need more. There's a ways to go to finalize the long term construction here.

That package wasn't good enough to get actual Eichel who was just traded a few months ago, and our draft picks will be expected to be later than they were when he was available. Your opinion of these prospects is off.

Fox, Zibanejad, Shesterkin, and Panarin are all going to be here at least 4 more years. Probably longer. This is not their best shot. They are god damned terrible at 5v5, they barely even have a shot.

They will have much, much better shots when the kids develop.

I think your panic attacks on this subject revolve more around, Chris Kreider and Jacob Trouba may never get better shots. Yeah, they might not. They both may be gone before we win a Cup. Oh well.

There's no panic attacks. Forget any possible trade deadline acquisitions. The guys your hoping the Rangers target are years out from potentially producing like Kreider and Strome are now. Bread and Mika are in their primes now. Fox and Igor can't be expected to be better than they are now, but they will be more expensive. And Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything yet.

A lot has to work out just for the moves you'd prefer to get the team as talented as it is today.

 

[mas0764]

Thanks and a good list.

I just hope this is the thinking up top, but what will it take to pry a top center prospect from a team? You seldom see those moves made. I wonder which one of those teams really covet a Nils type player and what else in addition to him will it take to get a deal done.

Im scared that if something is pulled off for a center it will be for someone like Lavoie or Bourgault to dumbly appease Lafreniere. Too low of a value. Aim much higher

Rossi, Turcotte, McTavish. Even Perfetti would be better

Might have to be Nils, Krav and a second or something.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Might have to be Nils, Krav and a second or something.

Honestly I would do that in a heartbeat for any of the top tier guys you mentioned.

Would totally change the dynamic of this team's future offensively. Almost worth an overpayment for the right young center

 

[mas0764]

There's a huge difference in what you and I believe this Rangers team is capable of. You can have your opinion, but when you have a clear Vezina favorite, last year's Norris winner, a solid D core, a few PPG forwards and the leading goal scorer in the league on a 113 points pace, you've got the talent to take your shot.

Obviously.

I don't think this team can seriously win.

That package wasn't good enough to get actual Eichel who was just traded a few months ago, and our draft picks will be expected to be later than they were when he was available. Your opinion of these prospects is off.

History says otherwise, so I don't see how you can maintain that.

And the reason Eichel isn't a Ranger is because Buffalo's owner didn't want to deal him here.

There's no panic attacks. Forget any possible trade deadline acquisitions. The guys your hoping the Rangers target are years out from potentially producing like Kreider and Strome are now. Bread and Mika are in their primes now. Fox and Igor can't be expected to be better than they are now, but they will be more expensive. And Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything yet.

A lot has to work out just for the moves you'd prefer to get the team as talented as it is today.

Strome? The guy we've been working hard to replace for years?

You are overselling it.... Kreider and Trouba will have to be replaced and we have one player to do that on hand already in Schneider. Kreider's production is easily on tap to be replaced by Lafreniere and/or Kakko at some point. The assets are going to (should be) consolidated for some centers to replace Strome.

Then we need to have our other young assets on hand to backfill expensive FA departures and the bottom 6.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Today’s Media Availability. Kevin Rooney, Jacob Trouba and Coach Gerard Gallant.

 

[Vitto79]

Motte and Hoglander are names in Vancouver

Kravtsov , Gauthier ?

 

[Lgrsean]

Obviously.

I don't think this team can seriously win.

And they seriously are winning. We do agree that Igor is 24-5-3, and we're on pace for 113 points, right? How many times has Igor lost by more than 1 goal? How many starts do you expect Georgiev to get in the playoffs?

History says otherwise, so I don't see how you can maintain that.

And the reason Eichel isn't a Ranger is because Buffalo's owner didn't want to deal him here.



Strome? The guy we've been working hard to replace for years?

You are overselling it.... Kreider and Trouba will have to be replaced and we have one player to do that on hand already in Schneider. Kreider's production is easily on tap to be replaced by Lafreniere and/or Kakko at some point. The assets are going to (should be) consolidated for some centers to replace Strome.

Then we need to have our other young assets on hand to backfill expensive FA departures and the bottom 6.

Yes, Strome. 33rd among centers in points and Kreider, leading the league in goals. It will take years for the Rangers to have an indication as to whether or not the targets you hope for can replace this production. I bet a lot of your targets look like Chytil did a couple years ago. I think Kakko and Laf will be productive forwards, but you can't say it's easy to project either of them scoring 30 goals in a season ever, let alone while Bread and Mika are still in their primes.

 

[CupSeeker]

I’ve got a little different perspective on Nemeth. I have no idea what was wrong with him (or maybe a family member) but it obviously went on for a long time and perhaps it was going on before he went on leave. Maybe he has been revitalized. Nemeth wasn’t a bad signing based on past performance but he sure was a black hole earlier this year. Let’s see how he progress in the next few games. I suspect he is on a short leash but I’m rooting for him to be successful.

When we signed him, Avs fans warned of the poor play to come. He is not part of the solution for a cup winning team.

 

[haohmaru]

You may not be on board with it, but when it's that message, or lose the player, you choose the former approach. Even if it's only until you can quietly trade the player.

Then take later steps to rectify the message. Again, if it becomes more of a pattern, the brakes can be applied at literally any time.

Additionally, I don't think that message, if that's the message that even gets sent, which I also dispute, is particularly absorbed by all the hard workers we clearly have here.

Depends on the player. This player has done this before, proven absolutely nothing, and doesn't deserve what he's asking for - which, btw, comes at the expense of another player who actually DID make the team. You think the rest of the team doesn't pick up on that and, probably, fundamentally disagree with it? Screw the player. The message this sends is that this is a team FIRST which, clearly, is a message that was received loud and clear. I don't have access to Post+, or Mollie Walkers article, but she cited Kravtsov as a locker room concern moving forward. Case closed.

I have no interest in having a country club mentality, don't get me wrong. I'm saying making an exception for one player when that player is in the unique position of being able to and having the desire to bolt, is not creating a country club mentality.

You are taking it too far the other way. It doesn't have to be all Ryan Callahans and John Tortorellas here. There is room for a little bit of diva, if it comes with talent and doesn't get out of hand.

This is one guy who has tremendous value either as a player or an asset. Appeasing one guy who acts out doesn't undermine team culture, doesn't create a slippery slope.

Making spots for players that didn't earn them is quintessential country club mentality. Sitting or demoting another player, who in the eyes of the coach beat out that player, because said player threw a hissy fit is also country club managing.

If this were a guy like Panarin that needed some extra attention then I could live with it. But a rookie who hasn't proven shit, who was hurt in training camp and asked to play a few games and rehab in the AHL and wait his turn and flipped the bird at the big club and flew across the Atlantic is NOT the guy these courtesies are extended to. Screw that.

We can argue til we're both blue in the face and neither of us might be wrong. It's pointless to continue, however.

 

[CupSeeker]

It's a matter of when not if for Nils Lundkvist.

Even if Trouba gets traded in a few years NYR don't need a top prospect for a spot to play 10 minutes behind Fox and Schneider's 25 each in 3 years. It's gonna be hard enough to get Schneider 15+ a game with both Fox and Trouba here.

If Nils is one of our 6 best dmen and he should be, a righty plays the left side. Teams do it successfully all the time. And although Miller has greater upside, Nils is the more solid player in all zones. Too early to move him unless we are getting back a young 2C and I may move Miller instead given the choice.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Might have to be Nils, Krav and a second or something.

Rossi, boldy and Marat are going nowhere for Minnesota. Their isn't anything Rangers can offer that will get tjem

 

[CupSeeker]

Jones > Nils

Robertson is someone that is more likely a long term solution to the bottom pair though.

Nils>Jones. Better defensively and a better shot. Both move the puck well and Jones is a better skater.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nils>Jones. Better defensively and a better shot. Both move the puck well and Jones is a better skater.

This is half true.

Only Jones does.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Kings - Byfield (unattainable), Turcotte, Kupari, Vilardi, Pinelli
Wild - Boldy, Rossi, Khusnutdinov
Ducks - Zegras (unattainable) (for now ), McTavish, Perrault
Canadiens - Jan Mysak
Hurricanes - Suzuki (unfortunately the Hurricanes probably don't want to help us and may not need a D like Nils either)
Stars - Wyatt Johnston, Mavrik Bourque, Ty Dellandrea
Jets - Perfetti, Lucious
Oilers - Holloway

As an example, I'd personally set sights on Johnston, Rossi, or Turcotte as a big fish, and then in a second deal, aim for Holloway, Khusnutdinov, or Mysak.

Minnesota Is stacked with d for the foreseeable future and now. Minnesota is one of the worst teams with C depth and wouldn't trade Rossi or Marat. Boldy is contributing to a championship contender on rookie contract.

Minnesota d now and future;
Spurgeon/ Alex G
Matt dumba/ jonas brodin
Dmitry kulikov, jon merrill
Calen addison

Next year and beyond
Jared spurgeon
Matt dumba
Jonas brodin
Calen addison
Dmitry kulikov
Jon merrill
Carson lambos
Ryan o'Rourk
Jack peart
Damon hunt

 

[mas0764]

And they seriously are winning. We do agree that Igor is 24-5-3, and we're on pace for 113 points, right? How many times has Igor lost by more than 1 goal? How many starts do you expect Georgiev to get in the playoffs?

I meant win in the playoffs. Of course I agree that we're on pace for 113 points, but despite that I don't see this team as a threat to win in the playoffs - more than a round or two at most.

This team only scores on the power play. It's bottom 10 in 5v5 goals, and the whistles get swallowed in the playoffs.

They aren't winning 4 straight series's. They just aren't. They aren't gonna 2-1 their way to the Finals.

Yes, Strome. 33rd among centers in points and Kreider, leading the league in goals. It will take years for the Rangers to have an indication as to whether or not the targets you hope for can replace this production. I bet a lot of your targets look like Chytil did a couple years ago. I think Kakko and Laf will be productive forwards, but you can't say it's easy to project either of them scoring 30 goals in a season ever, let alone while Bread and Mika are still in their primes.

The team's prime drivers right now are Shesterkin, Fox, Panarin and Zibanejad, probably in that order; it is both enough to win in the regular season but not enough to win in the playoffs.

Panarin is going to be elite for a long time. Whether Zibanejad will or not, I dunno, but he better, and the team is betting he will, cause they just signed him for 8 years. Fox and Shesterkin speak for themselves. There is no worry about either of them with "windows."

I'm not worried about some window slamming shut, because it's not open yet. I'm more worried about having enough talent to force that window open, and that requires Laf and Kakko to get there and one more top center. On top of that to be a true contender we probably need a couple other hits - not to be stars but at least to become solid players who are plus-performers for their roles - guys like Chytil, Kravtsov, Othmann, etc.

Strome, Kreider and Trouba just aren't that important. They are nice pieces but Strome is one-dimensional and a liability at one end of the ice, this is the first year that Kreider hasn't pulled a disappearing act (give it time...) and actually got over 30 goals, and Trouba is way overrated and Schneider is going to be his metric-measurement equivalent in a year or two, if not his superior.

This team's window doesn't open until the 20 goal inconsistent Stromes and Kreiders (historically, not this year) are replaced by 30-40 goal superstars Laf and Kakko.

If that doesn't happen, you aren't getting a Cup winner.

On top of that you are gonna need centers, because center depth is important, even if it's not a Crosby type scoring center, you better get some young, well-rounded centers in here to grow with the team. If not, you aren't getting a Cup winner.

There's a lot to worry about. How we are going to replace the declining Kreider isn't really one of my concerns. He's not vital to a window, adding more star talent and center depth is the key to even opening the window. And we haven't done that yet.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I meant win in the playoffs. Of course I agree that we're on pace for 113 points, but despite that I don't see this team as a threat to win in the playoffs - more than a round or two at most.

This team only scores on the power play. It's bottom 10 in 5v5 goals, and the whistles get swallowed in the playoffs.

That whistles get swallowed theory got debunked earlier this week.
penalties might be called less, but there are in fact more powerplays called during the playoffs than the regular season. So the ref's stop calling even up stuff, which leads to a decline in Penalty volume, but more overall powerplays.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Motte and Hoglander are names in Vancouver

Kravtsov , Gauthier ?

FWIW: Höglander was the Rangers' target with the 20th overall pick before they traded it for Trouba.

 

[DanielBrassard]

This is half true.

Only Jones does.

I'm not so sure Nils is any better defensively either. Only thing he might have on Jones is the shot.