Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVI - It’s Miller Time…K-A

[jay from jersey]

That is an absolutely awful trade for Leddy. With his salary, his value is probably around a 3rd/4th pick right now at best. He is really a bottom pairing defenseman at this point. No way would any team give up an actual prospect like Robertson for him. If you have Robertson in the trade so they take Nemeth, that is pretty bad asset management as well. Nemeth's will be tradeable in the offseason without much effort. If you look at comparable trades, in 2020 Erik Gustafsson went for only a conditional 3rd, Mike Green (with 50% salary retention) went for a conditional 4th/3rd, Forbort (with 25% salary retention) went for a conditional 4th/3rd, and DeMelo went for a 3rd round pick. These are all defensemen that are in the range of what Leddy is now, if not potentially a little better or worse. You do not give up a 20 year old defenseman in the AHL that was a first round pick for a type of player that Leddy is right now. He is third in minutes per game on Detroit, but they have terrible depth on defense right now. I'm not sure Nemeth would not be 3rd in minutes on that team if he was there. On a good team, Leddy is bottom pairing. I am not against going after him as a depth option, but no real prospects should be near that discussion.

This

 

[Thirty One]

April needs to get here already so people can stop complaining about Buch.

April 2028

 

[surlysailor]

Now you're just using bad faith BS to suit your bias. His role has changed because he's become top line player & a top 20 scorer over the past 3 years. I understand some not wanting to give up prime assets for him, but you nobody who'd being honest can deny he would make us a better team.

How many guys in the league can pull this off.

I think a deal for Miller would be similar to the Yandle deal a few years back. A 1st, mid-high top tier prospect (Lundkvist/Krav=Duclair at that time) & a young player like Chytil/Gaut. Ideally it would be a first (letter protected) or the better of the 2 2nds, Krav & Chytil (cap reasons). Miller would be a good addition to this team but then you'll have the same issue we ended last season. You're now blocking one of Laff or k2 from top 6 min for another year and a half. A center should be the target, ideally one to replace Strome next season if he prices himself out.

 

[Lgrsean]

I'm basically saying thanks but no thanks to any proposal involving JT Miller.

Even at no cost to acquire, he forces Strome out, and then you have to give Miller the contract extension we wouldn't give Strome. They are similar quality players and ages. I think I prefer Strome.

I'm interested in getting younger and better, not older and basically treading water. The entire exercise is a waste of time, unless Miller is the missing piece to a Cup this year, which only the most delusional hardcore fans would believe. They have this daydream of riding Igor Shesterkin and shitty 5v5 play to a Cup win, it's completely outside the realm of reality.

Given the dichotomous nature of Miller and Strome (only one can remain!) I'd actually RATHER a 4 month rental if not a long term solution. The 4 month rental will be cheaper and won't tempt us to hand a 6 year contract to a 30 year old in 18 months. That's idiotic, Dark Ages Rangers thinking again.

And this idea that we should part with major assets to buy us an extra year to find a long term center solution is nonsensical. If we trade those assets, how are we gonna get the long term solution? You just spent your resources on the stopgap.

Drury should look elsewhere. Hey Vancouver, we're interested in Pettersson and Hoglander, players with actual upside, not your expensive, aging mediocrity like Miller. Pawn those pieces off on an old team making their last run.

1 - Miller at 50% doesn't force Strome out. If the Rangers can't afford to sign Strome and have a forward @ $2.6M, then they just can't afford Strome. If that's the case, Copp would be a good option as a UFA and Mika/Miller/Copp/Barron would be an excellent group of centers with Bread, Kreider, Laf, Hunt, Kakko, Chytil, Goodrow, Hunt/Blais, and Reaves on the wings. That forward group with Igor and Fox playing at this level w the rest of our D is a cup contender. And it surrounds our younger players with talent to develop at their natural positions.

2 - Miller is better than Strome, and far from "aging mediocrity".

3 - If the cost to trade for Miller is Lundkvist, Kravtsov, and a 1st, that doesn't wipe out the Rangers assets for future deals.

4 - The Rangers are on on pace for 112 points. Adding a PPG C like Miller to this team would obviously improve the Rangers play at 5v5 for the next 2 playoff runs. You don' t need to be delusional to think that group of forwards with Igor and our D core could compete for a cup. When do you expect the Rangers to have more talent than they would have with Miller for those 2 runs? Igor, Fox, Bread, Mika, Kreider, Strome, Trouba, and even Lindgren are already playing as good as you can expect them to play, and if you're talking about 3 years from now some of those guys are out of the equation and going to need to be replaced by guys that may or may not be as good.

 

[jay from jersey]

If Kupari ends up a top 6 center, it's not close at all. It's laughably bad, in fact.

Even middle 6 center >>>> Bottom 6 grinder.

It's a ridiculous narrative that somehow Sammy Blais is the key to a cup. The kind of player you can find in any free agent class or trade deadline.

Who needs top talent, we need dime a dozen grinders with shitty metrics.

But homers will talk themselves into anything to excuse the team.

We need young, skilled forward talent, and we need it desperately more than we need a Sammy Blais. Is he a nice piece? Yes. But he's an afterthought compared to how much we need young skilled forward talent.

now I’m a homer... we have no clue the importance Blais will play, because he’s only had 14 games before Subban tore his acl.
You have been going on and on about these woulda coulda trades with no back story, no clue what went down, what if any other pieces might have gone the other way.
Do you know how many deals almost get made and fall thru at the last minute??? A lot.
You also continue to shit on Drury, and totally ignore the entire business perspective of hockey because Dom Ls book says we need to be a long term contender.
Playoffs games generate millions of dollars. Obviously they are going to add when they are good. They aren’t going to wait and wait and wait.
In some instances, I agree with you.
Certain things/players should def be targeted for more long term solutions.
Just because you don’t think they have a chance of winning the cup this season doesn’t mean the players/coaches/front office and fans don’t.

these aren’t throw away years for these guys.
It’s valuable for the young players to learn, and for the older guys, there’s not return trips guaranteed.

I have no doubt Drury targeted Blais and thought he would make the impact for what the team needs over adding Kupari.
Since chytil has pretty much been awful at center and Blais is injured, it’s easy to say now oh Kupari would have been better.
With strome leaving and chytil looking like he can’t handle center in a consistent to 6 role, I’d expect Drury to address the long term 2c position this offseason.
You also have to consider the timeline. Kupari, just like chytil might be a solid player 2-3-4 years from now, like chytil.
Blais at 25, has already won a cup, played with ROR, grinded on 3rd/4th lines...etc
At 25, he’s ready to give his best hockey for the next 4-5 years. That’s the Zibby/panarin/shesty( contract) /kreider/trouba etc timeline.
No question a healthy Blais has an immediate positive impact on this line up.
His injuries suck. They are def a drawback. Hopefully he has some better luck in that regard for the future.
Playing the style of play he does, you expect him to get banged up here and there, but not a slew foot from a repeat offender that ends his season before it starts.

 

[Fitzy]

Leddy doesn't kill penalties for Detroit.

He didn't much for the Isles either.

 

[JimmyG89]

Still think someone like Connor Brown is the way to go. Work to get Ottawa to retain half as well. We have the assets to do it. Get him at 1.8 for the remainder of this year and next year. You have security in a middle 6 winger that will cost you the same price as a good 4th liner that can move up and down the lineup and doesn't need PP time to produce.

You also secure a wing spot for the following season on the cheap when the extensions kick in. And if you don't want him the following season, I'm sure some team would be interested in him at 1.8.

1st + Kravtsov as the base for this deal, you don't need much more than that either.

 

[effen]

For like the 25th time, the 1st in the Kings deal wasn't gonna be till 2023. no GM cares about a first that far out. And kupari is kind of a donut

 

[Lgrsean]

Miller isn’t a center, he takes faceoffs but he is a winger

So who centers his line?

 

[rangers1314]

What's a good site to get player ice time splits?

 

[Thirty One]

Leddy doesn't kill penalties for Detroit.

He didn't much for the Isles either.

Has never averaged more than 1:00 SH TOI per game in his career. Can't see him being a target for that reason.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I thought Laf-Chytil-Gauthier looked pretty good through November back when we were playing hockey for a stretch.

Then we went back to whatever it is we usually do.

That month is such a mystery in the midst of this season.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Now you're just using bad faith BS to suit your bias. His role has changed because he's become top line player & a top 20 scorer over the past 3 years. I understand some not wanting to give up prime assets for him, but you nobody who'd being honest can deny he would make us a better team.

How many guys in the league can pull this off.

Plenty when a team plays defense like that...

 

[TheBPA]

If Kupari ends up a top 6 center, it's not close at all. It's laughably bad, in fact.

Even middle 6 center >>>> Bottom 6 grinder.

It's a ridiculous narrative that somehow Sammy Blais is the key to a cup. The kind of player you can find in any free agent class or trade deadline.

Who needs top talent, we need dime a dozen grinders with shitty metrics.

But homers will talk themselves into anything to excuse the team.

We need young, skilled forward talent, and we need it desperately more than we need a Sammy Blais. Is he a nice piece? Yes. But he's an afterthought compared to how much we need young skilled forward talent.

Yeah I'll take my chances on Kupari not ending up as a top 6 center. Middle 6 center is even going to be a stretch. I'm pretty confident that he won't reach Chytil's level over the course of their careers.

It's funny that you are so anti-Blais when he's pretty similar to the players you want, just not a center. He was always known as a skill player until he hit a growth spurt and then started throwing his weight around as well.

 

[Lgrsean]

Plenty when a team plays defense like that...

But why is it that almost all the guys ahead of Miller in points over the last 3 years are at or nearly on pace for the hall of fame? Why doesn't everyone just get a PPG?

 

[Boris Zubov]

So who centers his line?

He's been centering Boeser consistently. Usually with Pearson on LW.

 

[SA16]

Didn't have to be the 8th overall pick. The pick we got from STL wasn't for the 2021 draft either. The reported return was a 1st round pick. Most likely, a top-10 protected pick in 2022 as that lines up with lottery requirements. A 1st in 2022 + Rasmus Kupari was miles ahead of a 2nd in 2022 + Sammy Blais.

I'd even say Kupari is a better fit for this team than Blais in a vacuum because this team sorely lacks what Kupari brings. His ability to enter the zone (As we have seen against us) is something this team desperately needs to build sustained pressure.

Kupari's 9 points in 37 games, demotion to the AHL, terrible faceoff play, and all around poor play in the NHL (https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-right-decision-sending-kupari-ahl/) would have been a good fit on the team this year? He wouldn't even be on the team if he was in the organization. He'd be in the AHL all year (which is fine).

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

But why is it that almost all the guys ahead of Miller in points over the last 3 years are at or nearly on pace for the hall of fame? Why doesn't everyone just get a PPG?

I fail to see what any of these has to do with anything....

 

[effen]

Kupari's 9 points in 37 games, demotion to the AHL, terrible faceoff play, and all around poor play in the NHL (https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-right-decision-sending-kupari-ahl/) would have been a good fit on the team this year?

Yes, and if he turns into a top six center it'll be laughably bad!!!

....
Zzzzzz

 

[jay from jersey]

Garland?

 

[TheBPA]

Kupari's 9 points in 37 games, demotion to the AHL, terrible faceoff play, and all around poor play in the NHL (https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-right-decision-sending-kupari-ahl/) would have been a good fit on the team this year? He wouldn't even be on the team if he was in the organization. He'd be in the AHL all year (which is fine).

He'd be in the AHL where Chytil, who is all of 6 months older, proved he was too good for back in 17-18.

 

[TheBPA]

Miller isn’t a center, he takes faceoffs but he is a winger

Num	Time	%	Line	GF	GA	+/-	SF	SA	SF%	CF	CA	CF%
1	140:50	19.7	J.T. MILLER - TANNER PEARSON - BROCK BOESER	6	5	1	83	64	56.5	163	129	55.8
2	124:45	17.5	J.T. MILLER - BROCK BOESER - ELIAS PETTERSSON	3	2	1	60	61	49.6	125	112	52.7
3	59:00	8.3	J.T. MILLER - BROCK BOESER - VASILY PODKOLZIN	1	3	-2	36	27	57.1	71	58	55.0
4	48:14	6.8	J.T. MILLER - BROCK BOESER - NILS HOGLANDER	1	1	0	27	33	45.0	49	48	50.5
5	28:48	4.0	J.T. MILLER - JASON DICKINSON - BROCK BOESER	1	0	1	10	14	41.7	26	22	54.2
6	26:30	3.7	J.T. MILLER - TANNER PEARSON - NILS HOGLANDER	3	2	1	21	20	51.2	30	36	45.5
7	25:38	3.6	J.T. MILLER - CONOR GARLAND - VASILY PODKOLZIN	1	2	-1	17	14	54.8	23	28	45.1
8	24:07	3.4	J.T. MILLER - ALEX CHIASSON - TANNER PEARSON	1	0	1	8	10	44.4	19	23	45.2
9	23:14	3.3	J.T. MILLER - ELIAS PETTERSSON - NILS HOGLANDER	2	0	2	9	10	47.4	18	13	58.1
10	22:01	3.1	J.T. MILLER - CONOR GARLAND - ELIAS PETTERSSON	1	1	0	11	11	50.0	23	18	56.1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

.....ok sure

 

[bhamill]

Yes, he did say that NY passed on it. He says they chose the Blais offer over the Kupari and a first offer.

I know that Edge has said that NYR specifically liked Blais. I do NOT remember him saying the offer from LAK was on the table concurrently with NYR taking Blais and a 2nd. OR that that was the totality of the LAK deal. I mean does that REALLY sound like something ANYONE would do? Take Blais and a second while Kupari and 8OA is sitting right next to it? Again, if that's the case he should have been committed to a hospital, I just doubt that that is the case because it sounds like fantasy. Sometimes common sense has to factor in, even on hockey fan message boards.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Why would that stop in April?

He’ll go ghost town the second the games get tighter as he always has.

I know it’ll pick up again next October but at least it’ll stop for a few months.

 

[Lgrsean]

I fail to see what any of these has to do with anything....

When considering upgrading the roster, some Rangers fans discount JT Miller's production and say he is no different than the player he was on the Rangers. But, he has scored more points than everyone in the NHL except 15 guys over the last 3 years. Of those 15 guys, 2 are already on the Rangers and most are on a hall of fame trajectory. So is he the only guy in that group who isn't a difference maker? Are there any other PPG centers who wouldn't be worth a prospect who is completely blocked from playing for the Rangers and a late first round pick for $2.6M/year for 2 years?