Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIX

[pld459666]

Of course he did. And who would they have been able to play with? His time as GM was reckless. It really irritates me reading anything and I'm happy I was too young back then to fully understand what was going on.

Top 3 worst GMs in NY history.

I dont give a rat's ass what he would have had to give up.

12 potential seasons with Gretzky is and would have been well worth the package.

 

[pld459666]

I have espos book and from what I remember the players are correct in the link I provided, but Gulf and Western (Rangers Parent company at the time) didnt think he was worth parting with the 15 million

Sooo short sighted

 

[Avery16]

Old news

How close did the Rangers come to landing Wayne Gretzky in 1988?

What about the earlier attempt at Messier?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I dont give a rat's ass what he would have had to give up.

12 potential seasons with Gretzky is and would have been well worth the package.

94 never happens and the Rangers either at best become the 93 Kings at best or at worst the "second round Rangers" my friends and I used to call them because they'd always peak at the second round.

People really don't realize what a fine line 94 was in the space time continuum. Larry Bertuzzi gives the Rangers Lindros? No 94. Fletcher takes over for Smith? No 94.

Guy Lafleur doesn't go to Quebec? No Zubov, no 94.

 

[pld459666]

94 never happens and the Rangers either at best become the 93 Kings at best or at worst the "second round Rangers" my friends and I used to call them because they'd always peak at the second round.

People really don't realize what a fine line 94 was in the space time continuum. Larry Bertuzzi gives the Rangers Lindros? No 94. Fletcher takes over for Smith? No 94.

Guy Lafleur doesn't go to Quebec? No Zubov, no 94.

Good possibility 94 happens sooner

 

[pld459666]

94 never happens and the Rangers either at best become the 93 Kings at best or at worst the "second round Rangers" my friends and I used to call them because they'd always peak at the second round.

People really don't realize what a fine line 94 was in the space time continuum. Larry Bertuzzi gives the Rangers Lindros? No 94. Fletcher takes over for Smith? No 94.

Guy Lafleur doesn't go to Quebec? No Zubov, no 94.

Rangers would have kept Sandstrom, Granato, Leetch, Richter, James Patrick, Ulf Dahlin, Mullen, Wilson, Turcotte

94 could have happened in 90

All of the above were 26 and under. How much better would they have been with Gretzky leading the way.

 

[pld459666]

What about the earlier attempt at Messier?

Gretzky was the initial target, Messier was the fall back option as he should have been.

Plus, it was Sather that reached out to the Rangers and Pocklington thought he could address his financial woes by moving just Wayne at the tim .

 

[Leetch3]

Old news

How close did the Rangers come to landing Wayne Gretzky in 1988?

very interesting and fun to think of the ripple effect that might have had...if we had traded sandstrom then we couldn't trade him a few years later for bernie nicholls (who had been putting up big numbers with gretzky in LA) and then was traded for messier...who do we lose in the expansion draft to the north starts if kisio is gone? what would the 89 team look like without beezer and bob froese as the #1 and would that have changed draft or other trades?

so many things could have/would have changed if that went down...kind of fun to think about

 

[UnSandvich]

Just a spoiler of things to come (that I'm posting here for lack of a better idea/place): I'm doing a little NHL All-Time draft across the boards, and it's looking like at least one of Forsberg, Richard, Bossy, Harvey, Bourque will fall to us if not more.

 

[Irishguy42]

Just a spoiler of things to come (that I'm posting here for lack of a better idea/place): I'm doing a little NHL All-Time draft across the boards, and it's looking like at least one of Forsberg, Richard, Bossy, Harvey, Bourque will fall to us if not more.

Yeah, but when are we trading them (pre-prime, of course) for pieces to win the Cup?

 

[Fitzy]

Who is he going to play with? Is a dumb opinion- unless the Oilers were asking for pretty much every Ranger forward of use in exchange.

Brian Mullen? Tomas Sandstrom? Hell, Gretzky probably could have extended Marcel Dionne's career quite favorably as a linemate.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Is Joel Lundqvist close to being able to play at an NHL level? I know he's ancient, and he was even slow when he was young, but his numbers are really good over there and I just wonder if their angle would be to get the brothers playing together in the NHL for a year or two in a place where Hank could be the guaranteed starter.

 

[UnSandvich]

Is Joel Lundqvist close to being able to play at an NHL level? I know he's ancient, and he was even slow when he was young, but his numbers are really good over there and I just wonder if their angle would be to get the brothers playing together in the NHL for a year or two in a place where Hank could be the guaranteed starter.

At this point, I'd say probably no. Age is a big factor, but he didn't produce a ton even when he did play here, and he's basically the heart and soul of Frolunda from everything I've heard.

 

[Irishguy42]

If we're getting Joel to come on the team, then we need to get Lundkvist up to NY, and then get back Lindqvist and Lindberg.

No half-measures. I want Sam's head to explode.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Rangers would have kept Sandstrom, Granato, Leetch, Richter, James Patrick, Ulf Dahlin, Mullen, Wilson, Turcotte

94 could have happened in 90

All of the above were 26 and under. How much better would they have been with Gretzky leading the way.

Sandstrom and Beezer were going the other way. Richter in 1990 was very green. He would have had to play earlier than he did that season. Wilson was injured and mostly done as an effective player by 1990. Not enough depth.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Who is he going to play with? Is a dumb opinion- unless the Oilers were asking for pretty much every Ranger forward of use in exchange.

Brian Mullen? Tomas Sandstrom? Hell, Gretzky probably could have extended Marcel Dionne's career quite favorably as a linemate.

It's not dumb. Why did Gretzky never win a Cup with the Kings? Robataille/Sandstrom/Granato/Kurri were better than the 1990 Rangers playoff squad and probably about even with 91-92 Rangers top two lines.

Marcel Dionne was done by 1989. Maybe one more year at most.

Sandstrom/Beezer/Patrick and probably like four or five firsts were all probably going to the Oilers. Froese was terrible. Would Richter have been ready that early in 1989? Yes Neil Smith was pretty bad with first round picks but he hit a home run with Kovalev in 1991.

Mullen/Kissio/Ogrodnick were nice players but not really suited for the playoffs. By the time the Rangers were really contenders in 1991-92, 2/3 of that line were playing on an expansion team, and one was a healthy scratch. Any remnants from those early 90s teams Keenan got rid of. Right or wrong, they wanted more grit.

The defense on the early 90s teams was not near as good as the 92-97 squad.

Also, Espo couldn't draft and wasn't interested in picks. He drafted one player in three years, Tony Amonte. Knowing how much of an impulsive child he was as Rangers GM, he probably saw the last name and thought he could sell an extra few dozen jerseys in Brooklyn.

The most important part of the argument is the Rangers don't win anything without Zubov. Espo doesn't draft Zubov.

The whole Messier/Graves/Leetch/Richter as The Fab Four narrative that's been going on for 26 years is BS. Zubov and Kovalev just as important to that Cup win. I'm sorry if it's unpopular or if I'm ruining some fairy tale story. Who leads that team in scoring? Who sets up every important goal in that run along with Leetch?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If we're getting Joel to come on the team, then we need to get Lundkvist up to NY, and then get back Lindqvist and Lindberg.

No half-measures. I want Sam's head to explode.

That’ll definitely be the death of him

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If we're getting Joel to come on the team, then we need to get Lundkvist up to NY, and then get back Lindqvist and Lindberg.

No half-measures. I want Sam's head to explode.

Why stop there? Trade for Sundqvist

Sundqvist
Lundqvist
Lundkvist
Lindqvist
Lindberg

 

[pld459666]

Sandstrom and Beezer were going the other way. Richter in 1990 was very green. He would have had to play earlier than he did that season. Wilson was injured and mostly done as an effective player by 1990. Not enough depth.

Kisio and Ogrodnick were going the other way with Beezer

 

[True Blue]

Staals salary, actual dollars is 4.2

Actually its 3.2 after 1mill bonus

That's manageable

But who is trading for that?

 

[Fitzy]

The whole Messier/Graves/Leetch/Richter as The Fab Four narrative that's been going on for 26 years is BS. Zubov and Kovalev just as important to that Cup win. I'm sorry if it's unpopular or if I'm ruining some fairy tale story. Who leads that team in scoring? Who sets up every important goal in that run along with Leetch?

There's almost certainly a nationality element to this. Tenure explains some of it, but nationality as well.

 

[True Blue]

I honestly don't know what's going to happen with the right side of our D. We have 4 guys who are really excellent but I'm doubtful any of them would make a good adjustment to the left side.

There are three that are good. We have no idea who or what a 4th could be.

 

[Avery16]

Sounds like a maturity issue….which of course we did know about him.

 

[NYR Viper]

What about Sven Baertschi @ $3.336m next year

Or would the Rangers consider taking on someone like Beagle or Roussel which will extend the pain but mitigate next years cal hit? Both are @ $3m for this upcoming season and the following.

Zack Smith in Chicago is another one. $3.25m next year only. Would the Rangers consider retaining to make something like that happen to allocate that cap hit to a veteran forward in lieu of a LD?

How about Darren Helm @ $3.85m for next year. Detroit has practically no defensemen on their roster for next year

What about Backes from Anaheim who is now making $4.5m (Boston is retaining $1.5m)

Victor Rask who makes $4m next year and the year after from Minnesota?

There are options out there where a Staal or Smith could be traded. And this is without getting very creative with money retention.

 

[eco's bones]

Sounds like a maturity issue….which of course we did know about him.

People get depressed---it can f*** them up. He didn't get off to a great start--with a schedule that had us playing one game a week the first three weeks of the season that might have helped mess things up for him too. He was skating as well in training camp as I'd ever seen him and then by the time he was sent to Hartford he was skating in mud again. You also got to work with what you have. I'm not a fan of the 'I'm playing with shit linemates--why can't I play on a better line' complaint. Doesn't matter whether you're playing with Panarin or playing with Fast or Lemieux---you might not get as many points but you got to make your minutes count and that's the best reason for you to move to a better line when the opportunity comes along.

I saw the thing with the pills. I know he was talking about sleeping pills but he apparently did have some kind of foot injury and it made me think of pain pills and there are players who have gotten addicted to them. Got to be careful with the pills and you need to talk to someone if you're depressed---that first step can be a hard one though. People need to realize that most people have periods of depression in their lives and a whole lot of people seriously think about suicide. Because you're down or having thoughts doesn't make you unique at all.

Anyway it sounds like the Rangers may be still open to Lias. All in all I think he's a good guy. That said I'm not sure he's going to be a guy who seriously makes it. Just on hockey ability I like Chytil a lot better.