Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIII: 33rd thread twds the line of dead

[Ghost of jas]

Farther ahead from what? What's the goal here? To put together a championship level level team which can be good for a long while? I thought that was the Rangers plan.

You think it's a good idea to give a soon to be 29 year old Kreider a 6 year contract after the Rangers gave Panarin a 7 year contract? How many years is Zibanejad getting after his current contract expires in 2 years? How much is Zibanejad getting?

The Rangers are lead by a bunch of guys in their late 20's. Their top forwards are players in their late 20's. Panarin is 28. He turns 29 by the start of next season. Kreider turns 29 this April. Zibanejad turns 27 this April. Strome will be 27 in July.


Rebuilding is different here.

Short answer - yes.

 

[Fitzy]

Within two years, Buchnevich, Trouba, Skjei (If he stays) will all be heavily seasoned veterans. Hell Trouba has almost played 500 games.

That's a terrible argument to give for signing Kreider.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

No. I think they can find it cheaper though.

Where are we getting a 25 goal, 50 point power forward aged 28-31 with leadership abilities and playoff experience for less than what Kreiders expected to get?

This isn't even taking to account the effect Kreiders net front presence on the PP which nets him very little PP points and a home grown, self drafted player

 

[Thirty One]

Anybody have a remote control so we can fast forward to Monday at 5pm?

Would do wonders to my health.

Have you not seen the movie Click? That doesn't turn out well.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Anybody think the Bruins are done now?

 

[duhmetreE]

It actually fits my narrative just fine. I've been saying for some time that I think they make the playoffs next year.

I think we ARE relatively close. Which is why it's vital to ensure overwhelming talent has been acquired before we move on to contending. Once you get there, if you find you are short, it's nearly impossible to go back. Look at us from 2012-17. Had to overpay for guys like St. Louis and he didn't work out, really. And we got one Cup Final appearance out of it.

I'm just not ready to say we have enough ammo. We are close.

This year should be sacrificed for the final pieces of a long term vision.

I dont think Kreider hinders that at all. If you think we're competing next year, why wouldn't you want Kreider on the team?

He's not costing us prospects or picks, just cap space. We have enough ammo on the way and/or soon to be drafted. With Kreider signed, the lineup would be 'fixed' for the foreseeable future.

 

[kovazub94]

I disagree. Teams are going to be wary about his ability to produce away from Panarin, and his pending RFA status might scare them off unless they can talk to him/his agent about what he's looking for. Strome signed to a 2 year deal and continuing to put up good numbers next year will have more value than he does now.

Unless you're all in that Strome is going to dramatically decline I agree that it's more beneficial to have him improve his career stats / perception even if his production somewhat declines, like having a 50-point season next year if he's on Panarin's line.

 

[Thirty One]

Where are we getting a 25 goal, 50 point power forward aged 28-31 with leadership abilities and playoff experience for less than what Kreiders expected to get?

You are expanding the parameters.

I'll miss Kreider if/when he's gone. They won't be able to make up everything he brings. But I'm not confident enough in the team in the years he'll be 29-31 to commit to the risk that I believe his contract will be at ages 32-35.

 

[mas0764]

To be completely honest, the "stock forwards with high draft picks" method isn't going to result in this team being a competitor. You're going to always be patching holes and continuing to say "we just need to draft another impact player" because you're having to replace a Kreider, a Zibanejad, a Panarin, and so forth.

It may be tough to swallow but I think what we're looking at here is the Rangers saying "we need to have a window that opens in 1-2 years of being competitive and trying to win the cup". The Rangers aren't going to wait around constantly trying to find picks and prospects to replace their high end players, they're going to try to win soon with their high end players.
That's why they're still looking for a way to re-sign Kreider.

And again, I dont' think that's a crazy idea...it might not work at all, but again you also can't spend your time running back and forth trying to plug holes in your lineup because you're always waiting for your picks and prospects to replace your elite players while in the meantime other players are aging off your roster and you're trying to sell them for picks and prospects to replace players but now you have to replace those guys and so on and so forth. Constant roster churn isn't a good thing if you ultimately want to win a cup.

The trick for the Rangers may ultimately be quickly building back up into a competitive team but not decimating their farm system like they did in the mid teens trying to go for the cup, but instead keep a steady trickle of solid prospects and players joining the team and as assets to acquire other pieces.

I would strongly disagree that "stock forwards with high draft picks" won't result in being a competitor. It almost certainly will! Yes, you'll have to replace Kreider and Zbad -- and it's much easier to get that replacement in the system now, when you can pick at or near the top 10, rather than when you are fresh-off a playoff run in 3 years and you are picking 25th.

You obviously have assets that will be acquired in the future (even just future draft picks) but if you can get the backbone of two scoring lines of under-23 year old players, you will be set for a long, long time. Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil... I think we need one or two more. If so, you've got the bulk of two dominant scoring lines for the next decade, that are supplemented by aging (and decreasing in effectiveness, but still currently effective) players like Zbad and Panarin. One or two more young studs, if you hit on their selections, and you are essentially done with major replacements, and you have a decade of PATCHING, not overhauling, in front of you.

That being said, I'm open -- as I suggested like yesterday when his name came up -- that getting creative and getting a player like Gaudreau satisfies this requirement. Yes, he's 26, but, he's good enough that you probably have a competing team on your hands for a nice 5 year period, and it starts like, next year.

 

[BBKers]

Anybody think the Bruins are done now?

They just created cap space for adding one more piece. A Winger. Be it CK21 (retained), Palmieri, Kovalchuk or someone else. They are going all in. Beecher, Fredric and a conditional 2nd that becomes a first. Maybe something small more. They certainly still have the ammo tho. If they make another trade, it puts a bit of pressure on JG. He has already lined up the offers. He is close to giving CK his final offer too it appears. Interesting times

 

[Alluckks]

They just created cap space for adding one more piece. A Winger. Be it CK21, Palmieri, Kovalchuk or someone else.

Seems like they'd have to move a piece like Studnicka or Debrusk to get Kreider now

 

[duhmetreE]

Recipe for success is a good mix of Vets making UFA money and kids who our controllable ( Either on a ELC or a bridge deal )

As of right now, we have a few goood vets and few shitty ones. We get rid of the shitty ones, not the good ones.

 

[Trxjw]

Anybody think the Bruins are done now?

No they still have a spot open for a top-six winger and the cap flexibility to add one.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

According to one of the vetted Bruins posters, they have an offer out on Palmieri. One that the fans may not like

 

[NYR94]

Anybody think the Bruins are done now?

I think they have one more move in them. Kase is on LTIR now anyway, he's not even meeting up with the team on their roadtrip. I think that trade was more about getting rid of Backes and his contract.

 

[True Blue]

The Rangers are lead by a bunch of guys in their late 20's. Their top forwards are players in their late 20's. Panarin is 28. He turns 29 by the start of next season. Kreider turns 29 this April. Zibanejad turns 27 this April. Strome will be 27 in July.

Most teams that are Cup contenders are led by players that are older than that. How many Cup contending teams are led by a bunch of sub 25 year olds?

 

[Ghost of jas]

While there is a TON of truth in this post, you could easily flip it and talk all about the deficiencies of this team’s defense as a whole and discuss just how epically distant they are from contention.
We also missed big w Andersson and Kravtsov is a big ?

So when we are talking about windows and contending and how far along we are, we should note that we gave out two massive contracts this past off season and signing Kreider to another may not be wise at this stage.

I never once said there aren’t deficiencies. Basically, I’ve said for months now, the biggest need is a legitimate 1LD. But, I think that’s more likely coming in a trade than from another 1st round pick. I said it at the time , but the truth is, the Panarin signing changed the timeline. I expect this team to make the playoffs next year. And, that could mean some of the prospects people have fallen in love with could be moved. The clock already started.

 

[aufheben]

Bruins fans still want to move a roster player for a top-6 winger.

 

[Trxjw]

Seems like they'd have to move a piece like Studnicka or Debrusk to get Kreider now

If they're going to give up a really good asset like that, it makes more sense to go after Palmieri. Especially when it's really the RW where the need is for them.

 

[True Blue]

I think he likely resigns. But if Newhook or McMichael are available in some variation of a deal you think long and hard.

Players like Newhook are not available in any variation of a deal.

 

[mas0764]

I dont think Kreider hinders that at all. If you think we're competing next year, why wouldn't you want Kreider on the team?

Because the assets you can get from Kreider right now are vital to being able to trade up and acquire another impact forward in this coming draft, or, taking a shot on a high upside guy in the 20s like Chytil. Either one of those outcomes nearly completes our rebuild permanently.

I want that way more than I want to compete next year. I think we get playoff experience with or without Kreider next year. But I don't think he's the difference in winning the cup or not.

Conversely, I think we can win multiple Cups if we get another stud in here like Holtz or Stutzle.

Furthermore, again, I think the ascension of Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, DeAngelo, etc, is coming on too fast. We are not gonna be bad enough to get another shot at a player like Rossi or Holtz. I dread getting stuck in the "Good but not good enough to win it all" realm of a team like, oh, I dunno, Washington even, before they got lucky and finally put it all together. I would hate that for us.

I'm willing to wait one more year to get pieces I feel are the ones that put us over the top.

He's not costing us prospects or picks, just cap space. We have enough ammo on the way and/or soon to be drafted.

That's where we don't agree. I don't think we have enough at forward yet. I think we are 1-2 top 6 pieces away. If we could keep Kreider but still land a guy like Holtz or Stutzle or Rossi, fine, but I think keeping him "wins" us out of position to even trade up for one of those guys.... plus we wouldn't have the extra assets Kreider will be bringing in with which to accomplish that trade up (like, say, an extra first rounder).

It's why I've said, if we are gonna keep Kreider, for pete's sakes, at least trade him then bring him back. We need those long term assets for our forward core still.

 

[Lime]

is there any decent prediction on the 20/21 season salary cap?

 

[dumpin]

The primary argument against resigning CK is that it would limit the ability to sign our other RFA and UFA players. To avoid that couldn't they sign him to an affordable one year contract which also has a one year insurance contract ( just to protect him against career threatening injuries). The next year a lot of money frees up (Staal, Lundquist, and Smith) over 18 million just there. Also a large chunk of Shattenkirk around another 3.5 million.

I would rather resign CK if at a reasonable term. Its hard to find players like him at the bottom of the first round. There are too many misses relying on the drafts magic beans.

 

[Edge]

Now is a good time to warn everyone that I will be working the next two days and my replies will not be as prompt.

I have not determined what I am having for lunch. But I will attempt to smuggle some wine into the Javits Center.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Assuredly not. I am not implying that, though perhaps you are inferring it.

But again, we need more talent in the top 6 for the intermediate-to-long term. Kreider and Zbad cannot be counted on to be it.

If there was a way to keep them AND get a player of Newhook's caliber, I'm all for it, but the fact is, while it's no guarantee that players picked at "9 or 11" are gonna be stars, it's way more likely to find impact players there than it is picking in the 20s.

There's not enough to be gained by making the playoffs this year other than instant gratification to the sore spot of two straight missed playoffs. "Playoff experience" is important, yes, but it can and will be acquired next season or the season after, there is no substitute for acquiring top end talent. You have to take your shot now; and what's more, I would advocate doing everything possible to move up to get a guy you really feel good about, thus minimizing bust potential.

You're not getting a player of Newhook's caliber in a trade this year. Let it go. If you were they would have made the move already. Kakko isn't high end enough? Panarin? Chytil? Those guys along with Kreider and Zibanejad aren't a good enough top 6 for the next five years? And in case you forgot, the Rangers found an impact player in the 20s a few seasons ago while the guy they drafted at 7 is currently playing in Sweden.

I bet you were one of the people livid they beat Pittsburgh to end the season last year.