Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIII: 33rd thread twds the line of dead

[Gardner McKay]

No because we are going to need that space to keep DeAngelo/Chytl/Kakko/Lemiux

and in 3 years, we could get a better player for that money than Kreider...we aren't making a cup run right now, we don't need to keep him.

I don't think $1 million is going to make or break being able to sign all the above.

No interest in the AAV being that high

Fair enough. I don't either, just trying to gauge how people are feeling.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Brooks’ timing is interesting.

Basically brings up re-signing right after Boston deals a major blow to Gorton’s leverage.

That’s not to say they aren’t trying to hammer out a deal. But an interesting thought.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Yeah I mean I certainly don't fault him for trying to negotiate with Kreider, but this isn't the sort of thing you leave up to the final week before the deadline. The "take it or leave it" deadline should've been, at the absolute latest, last weekend. There's no reason to have this hanging over your head in the critical days leading up to the deadline. Especially when the fallout has the potential to result in some significant moves.

I agree Gorton should have done this earlier so that was a mistake on his part for sure

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Damn Crypto is getting nervous lol

Nah, Gorton isn't an idiot. So i'm not worried.

 

[kovazub94]

people keep thinking hank can just go to a Cup contender whenever he’s ready to waive his NMC

the sad truth is no Cup contender wants him. They aren’t calling. Last year one team did. But not happening this year. He’s not a better option than what most of them already have.

Injuries and a reduced performance from an overused starter could change that.

 

[Edge]

Yeah I mean I certainly don't fault him for trying to negotiate with Kreider, but this isn't the sort of thing you leave up to the final week before the deadline. The "take it or leave it" deadline should've been, at the absolute latest, last weekend. There's no reason to have this hanging over your head in the critical days leading up to the deadline. Especially when the fallout has the potential to result in some significant moves.

And this speaks to a broader concern I sometimes have about us trying to get too cute with things at times. We've been accused of doing that at the draft, and in trades, and while I don't agree with some of the stronger takes on the subject, there is at least some truth to it.

 

[Trxjw]

Kreider is a 50 point player having a breakout season in a contract year at the age of 28 (29 in April)

He is not bad but he is not a guy I am investing 6/7 years into, paying for his decline as we enter our next cup run. I do not understand the rationale of keeping him at all.

Is it a breakout year, or is he just making up the difference in his career averages? Last year was supposed to be a break out season when he was pacing for 35 goals heading into the 2nd half of the year and then he completely disappeared down the stretch and finished right in line with his usual numbers.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Nah, Gorton isn't an idiot. So i'm not worried

.

well for your sake I hope your right lol

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Brooks’ timing is interesting.

Basically brings up re-signing right after Boston deals a major blow to Gorton’s leverage.

That’s not to say they aren’t trying to hammer out a deal. But an interesting thought.

Larry has had nothing on this in the last two weeks

Would not be shocked if someone from the team sent him that nugget to push out after the Boston trade

 

[Kovalev27]

It's funny, there's a perception that he's having a breakout year. But I kind of feel like it's too early to say that.

If he keeps up this pace, yes he would set career highs. But if his streakiness continues, he could come right in where he typically does, or maybe a decent improvement over previous career highs.

Right now, in the midst of a hot streak, he's on pace for 34 goals and 63 points in 81 games.

That's not dramatically different than his paces in 2017 and 2019 when you factor in this team being flat out more potent offensively.

So I'm not really sure it's a huge factor in his contract, or that he's only playing this way because his contract is up. I just think it's drawing more attention to it.

this is a good post. It’s not about the run he’s one. We should have wanted to keep him just based off what he always does. It’s not just points with him. His PP work a lot of time doesn’t show up on the scoreboard for him. He’s an extremely valuable piece to this team. A different look than most of our wingers. Makes us faster. And makes our top center better and vice versa. Can’t begin to continue to say how important that piece alone is. Mika is on what a 100 pt pace? Who throws a stick into that spoke? Let it run

 

[Yankeekid07]

It's funny, there's a perception that he's having a breakout year. But I kind of feel like it's too early to say that.

If he keeps up this pace, yes he would set career highs. But if his streakiness continues, he could come right in where he typically does, or maybe a decent improvement over previous career highs.

Right now, in the midst of a hot streak, he's on pace for 34 goals and 63 points in 81 games.

That's not dramatically different than his paces in 2017 and 2019 when you factor in this team being flat out more potent offensively.

So I'm not really sure it's a huge factor in his contract, or that he's only playing this way because his contract is up. I just think it's drawing more attention to it.

1. @Edge The fact that you replied to me is awesome!

2. I think you can't throw out what he did the first 25 games this year when he scored 6 goals...

I really do like Kreider and a lot of what he brings, but the timing is just off to me to extend him.

In 3/4 years when we should be entering our Stanley Cup window, I will not want him eating up $7/8 mill of our cap.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Lol what else is he supposed to say?

Kreider trade is coming. We're screwed. Told the guys to mail it in tonight. Free hot pockets on Jeff.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Last year Kreider got hurt at the end of the year(and played through the it) otherwise he gets probably 35 goals. The year before that he gets the blood clot and comes back early to HELP the team and plays well. Year before that it was 28 goals. This year I think 30 is a better chance. Look I’ve accepted Kreider for what he is a very good top 6 player. Some still can’t get over the fact that he didn’t become a superstar. What impresses me is that he had become a better overall player especially defensively

 

[I Eat Crow]

What if Kreider extended at 5 years x $8.25 million. I know a lot of people want to see him re-signed but are nervous about the last few years of the contract. Would you prefer that over some of the other contracts that have been discussed?

And I'm just asking as a way of playing devils advocate.

Yes.

I'd pay a bit more money for a lower number of years, but $8.25 million is steep. More like 7 to 7.5 would be my hope.

 

[Yankeekid07]

Is it a breakout year, or is he just making up the difference in his career averages? Last year was supposed to be a break out season when he was pacing for 35 goals heading into the 2nd half of the year and then he completely disappeared down the stretch and finished right in line with his usual numbers.

I am not banking that the last 30 games of Kreider is what we will get from now on.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Ultimately I just don’t believe it’s smart to give a 6-7 year deal to a 29 year old PF whose game is largely predicated on his physical speed. Edit - and who has pretty fairly been defined as “streaky.”

I am a huge Kreider fan and wish the timing was different - but it isn’t.

 

[Trxjw]

And this speaks to a broader concern I sometimes have about us trying to get too cute with things at times. We've been accused of doing that at the draft, and in trades, and while I don't agree with some of the stronger takes on the subject, there is at least some truth to it.

I agree with you there. I do think there's a bit of ego behind some of the decisions they make and their fall-back option doesn't always seem to have as much thought put into it as you'd expect.

 

[Edge]

this is a good post. It’s not about the run he’s one. We should have wanted to keep him just based off what he always does. It’s not just points with him. His PP work a lot of time doesn’t show up on the scoreboard for him. He’s an extremely valuable piece to this team. A different look than most of our wingers. Makes us faster. And makes our top center better and vice versa. Can’t begin to continue to say how important that piece alone is. Mika is on what a 100 pt pace? Who throws a stick into that spoke? Let it run

It's kind of like when people say he isn't a 30 goal scorer because he hasn't scored 30 goals. They're right, in a literal sense.

But 28 in 75 games, and 28 in 79 games more or less means he's equivalent to a 30 goal scorer.

I mean, aside from optics, do we really love or value 28 in 75 less than we would 30 in 82?

So him being on a 34 goal pace, while great, isn't really him making a new case for a contract. It's him sustaining his case for a contract.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I am not banking that the last 30 games of Kreider is what we will get from now on.

To be fair not many can do that. That’s almost elite. Nobody is saying he is elite but he is very good. Kreider also makes players around him better even if it doesn’t translate in points for him . I mean can we at least agree on that?

 

[Edge]

1. @Edge The fact that you replied to me is awesome!

2. I think you can't throw out what he did the first 25 games this year when he scored 6 goals...

I really do like Kreider and a lot of what he brings, but the timing is just off to me to extend him.

In 3/4 years when we should be entering our Stanley Cup window, I will not want him eating up $7/8 mill of our cap.

He's a better player than his numbers to start the year, and he's not going to sustain his current pace over 82 games. But 30/60? Yeah, I think that's fair.

In the end, it's really his assists that could see the biggest jump this season and be the difference between him being a 55 point vs. 60 point player.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Is it a breakout year, or is he just making up the difference in his career averages? Last year was supposed to be a break out season when he was pacing for 35 goals heading into the 2nd half of the year and then he completely disappeared down the stretch and finished right in line with his usual numbers.

I think it's partially that he's playing better in a contract year (as most players do) and partially that opposing teams now have Panarin to worry about and can't throw their best guys at KZB the whole game.

 

[Yankeekid07]

that’s your opinion I respect it but disagree

Hey, nothing personal brotha!! All here b/c we love the same team and want the same thing!

 

[NYRangers0723]

He's a better player than his numbers to start the year, and he's not going to sustain his current pace over 82 games. But 30/60? Yeah, I think that's fair.

In the end, it's really his assists that could see the biggest jump this season and be the difference between him being a 55 point vs. 60 point player.

Agreed. Look was he great in the beginning of the year? No but him and Strome never played together and they had a 18 year old with them that is learning. It’s not a shock that there were struggles at first.

 

[Trxjw]

I think it's partially that he's playing better in a contract year (as most players do) and partially that opposing teams now have Panarin to worry about and can't throw their best guys at KZB the whole game.

That could definitely be a factor. The question is whether or not you want to bet $7m a year on that prospect. I personally don't. If we get the typical Kreider next season and he's making $7m I expect a lot of complaining and finger pointing to start.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Hey, nothing personal brotha!! All here b/c we love the same team and want the same thing!

Agreed. Appreciate you being cool about it. I’ve only had one person on here act like a dick because we have different views. But like you said we are all on the same team here. We just want to win