Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXII: One Thing Leads to Another

[LaffyTaffy]

his instagram bio still has it.

Hey man twitter first, he’ll get there

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think the ask is high so Gorton gets his prospect he wants... not the pick

A good prospect is worth more than a late 1st rounder anyway

 

[Bruner4329]

BOS stopped them fairly well.

This latest run from Kreider is his best ever. Yes. But that doesn’t mean he is this player going forward. IF he is, he will decline by the time the next 7 years are up. We prob aren’t real contenders for another 2-3.
Trade him.

Again sure there probably will be a decline towards the end of the contract but that is how it works, Very seldom do team in any sport get full value every year. But if he produces at the level he has for the next 5 years and the Rangers contend and win a cup is it worth it? Also this revolving door logic does not work. At some point you do need established vets to supplement the youth. Not every draft pick is going to pan out as we know. You can't keep getting rid of every player once they hit 29/30, replace them with unknown draft picks or unproven talent and expect them to contend.

 

[Ola]

Just a random observation, while I don’t think it’s unfair in any way if (when) we miss the POs, I think that the difference between us and the top teams in the league is pretty small...

 

[DutchShamrock]

I really don't think Gorton wants to be sitting in his office on Monday at 5PM with an unsigned Kreider and basically the same roster as he started with. If Kreider is a Ranger on Tuesday without a contract, it means they're damn close to signing one. Gorton is going to want to create some cap flexibility for himself between now and Monday instead of negotiating trades in the summer when teams know he's up against the cap.

If Kreider is still here and unsigned, I expect at least one of Buchnevich, Strome, or Skjei to be gone, and the Rangers to have a final path forward on dealing with Hank.

I understand that isn't what Gorton wants, but if there isn't ink on paper all of the leverage tips towards Kreider. He gets to stay where he likes while holding gorton over a barrel, because he can walk like Tavares. I've seen enough contracts blow up after handshakes and "agreements in principle. " It's not good business and I don't know why people are just assuming agents won't exercise every bit of leverage.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Duplicate

 

[MetalJaws]

I wouldn't mind losing Kreider for Studnicka or Newhook. I also don't know why people are so quick to freak out over the ask. Newhook could have a similar career to Jost. But yea, not being moved ever. That's just insane! No. what's insane is trading a beast monster in Kreider for something that might end up a fringe 3rd/4th line player. For guys like Hajek, Howden or Lemieux.

I hope Kreider stays at a reasonable amount that starts with a $6. However if he goes the return should be insanely high. Lots of bidders.

Go get em JG!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just a random observation, while I don’t think it’s unfair in any way if (when) we miss the POs, I think that the difference between us and the top teams in the league is pretty small...

The top top teams? Nah theres still a pretty significant gap but its closing up pretty quick.

 

[Leetch3]

Last spring there were very strong rumors (Friedman, Dreger and the likes, right? I don't remember exactly), from people having being fed info from Gorton before, that he was going after Panarin and someone like Trouba, and that he likely would go after a big RFA if that couldn't be achieved.

I can't help but to wonder, the first part was true, everyone thought the second part was ridiculous and it sounded like it came from Eklund, not some of the most trusted people out there, and while we of course never can know for sure, how can we rule out that the second part wasn't true?

So not saying that he would deviate from "his" plan, but I am not entirely sure that Gorton's plan is what everyone expectes it to be.

yeah I think that is a big key...many looked at bringing in panarin and trouba was the rangers trying to speed up the rebuild and they weren't going to be patient. but I think that making moves to acquire top players in that age range was not a deviation from the plan but always part of the plan. the plan was never going to be to have all homegrown players under 23 lol

 

[LORDE]

Again sure there probably will be a decline towards the end of the contract but that is how it works, Very seldom do team in any sport get full value every year. But if he produces at the level he has for the next 5 years and the Rangers contend and win a cup is it worth it? Also this revolving door logic does not work. At some point you do need established vets to supplement the youth. Not every draft pick is going to pan out as we know. You can't keep getting rid of every player once they hit 29/30, replace them with unknown draft picks or unproven talent and expect them to contend.

I completely agree... but we already signed an established player to a long and lucrative contract where we hope he plays close to what he has. His name is Artemi Panarin and if he declines he’ll probably still be a VERY good hockey player. I have no problem banking on a guy or two like that to provide play AND leadership / intangibles.

You’re saying Kreider is def that other guy. Not Trouba? Not Zbad?

That’s a bold move Cotton

 

[Trxjw]

I understand that isn't what Gorton wants, but if there isn't ink on paper all of the leverage tips towards Kreider. He gets to stay where he likes while holding gorton over a barrel, because he can walk like Tavares. I've seen enough contracts blow up after handshakes and "agreements in principle. " It's not good business and I don't know why people are just assuming agents won't exercise every bit of leverage.

Well when I said damn close, I meant a deal in principle that just needs pen to paper. That being said, you're probably right that Gorton wouldn't risk that. After another cup of coffee I've thought that through again and agree with you.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Kreider is the better player BY FAR. I have confidence that Gorton is going to do the best he can here.

i’m certainly more confident in Gordon with JD next to him than I am in Dave Gettleman with Mara next to him.

 

[Lion Hound]

Was Kreiders mother with the moms on the trip? I didn't see his jersey in that group.

 

[Kovalev27]

This is a staggering indictment on Howden and frankly quinn for stapling our top franchise prospect to him for most of the season. Kakko should have been nowhere near Howden all year.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I wouldn't mind losing Kreider for Studnicka or Newhook. I also don't know why people are so quick to freak out over the ask. Newhook could have a similar career to Jost. But yea, not being moved ever. That's just insane! No. what's insane is trading a beast monster in Kreider for something that might end up a fringe 3rd/4th line player. For guys like Hajek, Howden or Lemieux.

I hope Kreider stays at a reasonable amount that starts with a $6. However if he goes the return should be insanely high. Lots of bidders.

Go get em JG!

it’s true, prospects are at their highest value before they make their NHL debut. Hughes and Kakko struggling to make an impact on the NHL at 18 and the hype is dead, meanwhile guys lighting up juniors or college in their D+1 or D+2? What a beast! Untouchable! People were calling Cody Glass the best player outside the NHL let season lmao. Then he makes his debut with Vegas and it turns out he’s just another rookie. Hype train derailed.

Oh well Jost is a bust, but Newhook? He’s a stone cold lock to be a top 6 center, he’ll slide in right behind MacK next year and they’ll win the Presidents trophy AINEC.

 

[Matt4776]

This is a staggering indictment on Howden and frankly quinn for stapling our top franchise prospect to him for most of the season. Kakko should have been nowhere near Howden all year.

Howden is really, really bad and should not be on this team tomorrow, never mind next year.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Agreed about Howden

At this point he needs sent down. He's not an NHL player. I have hope that he can rebound and turn into a nice bottom 6 guy, but right now he's not.

 

[NYR Viper]

In fairness PDG has been a nice addition to the team. His speed and grit add a nice element to that line

 

[MetalJaws]

Just a random observation, while I don’t think it’s unfair in any way if (when) we miss the POs, I think that the difference between us and the top teams in the league is pretty small...

We certainly have a lot of pessimistic posters here who will likely always be doom and gloom. But I agree with you! This current, super young team lost to NJ, OTT, BUF, LA some multiple times. Also had some real Dog Shit 3rd period efforts in tight games that blew games late for at least a point. Those games alone put us more in the mix. Rangers don't have to be THE team. They need to get in and have things go right. Doable as early as next season. Hell, I hope they make it this year to shut some people up.

With or without Kreider this team is taking a step next year. Shesty is Obv. a very bright spot among many others.

 

[dshea19]

It was interesting that by the third period, The Gaut was on the 3rd line and DG was on the 4th. At least for a few shifts that I saw.

 

[MetalJaws]

it’s true, prospects are at their highest value before they make their NHL debut. Hughes and Kakko struggling to make an impact on the NHL at 18 and the hype is dead, meanwhile guys lighting up juniors or college in their D+1 or D+2? What a beast! Untouchable! People were calling Cody Glass the best player outside the NHL let season lmao. Then he makes his debut with Vegas and it turns out he’s just another rookie. Hype train derailed.

Oh well Jost is a bust, but Newhook? He’s a stone cold lock to be a top 6 center, he’ll slide in right behind MacK next year and they’ll win the Presidents trophy AINEC.

I just don't see him going all Makar like that this early in his career. Maybe 3 or 4 years down the road. Do you remember how amazing Jost was at the U18 tourney in 2016. A ton of people had him 6-10 on mocks. He was supposed to be that guy already. I can name a TON of guys who were picked top 10 who were supposedly ready to go in a top 6 role and still are not even close. NHL is a different Animal.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Was Kreiders mother with the moms on the trip? I didn't see his jersey in that group.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

This is a staggering indictment on Howden and frankly quinn for stapling our top franchise prospect to him for most of the season. Kakko should have been nowhere near Howden all year.

Yeah, this is why when you see things floating around HF or on twitter of people who don't watch Rangers games but see all of the stats talking about how Kakko is the worst player in the NHL. It's really just that he was stapled to Howden who is a huge anchor.

Watching Kakko we could see a player doing good things and growing with flashes of what he can be in the future, but the overall stats told a different story.

Howden absolutely stinks. He has shown basically no growth since we acquired him. How he hasn't seen any AHL time is beyond me.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

In fairness PDG has been a nice addition to the team. His speed and grit add a nice element to that line

Should've been on the team all season. He's better than Haley, Smith, McKegg and Howden. Not even a question.

 

[RGY]

I said it from the start of the year. Harped on it constantly. It was a terrible mistake by Quinn to continuously force a square peg in a round hole with Howden. He didnt earn it during preseason and it has showed since then. I hate to bring this up but its why Lias should have at least gotten a look if they were going to continue to give Howden a look. Inexcusable.

Now he hasnt been completely awful in a relegated 4th line role away from the center position. He has been ok, but that is the team masking his shortcomings. Last night he took penalties he shouldnt have in his limiter EV Strength ice time.

But hey, we didnt need Brian Boyle to shore up the bottom 6. It would have been blocking Brett Howden...

Frustrating still, even if it has been finally corrected, that if we had a more competent bottom 6 this team could absolutely be in a playoff spot right now. Because its not just the play in the O-Zone but its also the overall team play, backchecking, defensive awareness, etc.

DiGuiseppe has been solid for his assignment