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Speculation: Roster building thread XXIII: Heading into doldrum days and All Star break

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I don't think we would get fair value for ADA, which is one of my major reservations about dealing him.

It's his first really big year, plus all other (not the nonhockey stuff that people care way too much about) baggage, and he's gonna score his first big deal.

I just think we would be underwhelmed with the return compared to what we might have gotten, for example, for a 24 year old Ryan mcdonagh.

I'm gonna continue to push this idea about trying ADA out on the left next season. And if all else fails, with how PP and PK situations work, there's no real reason why our best three offensive blueliners can't all be right handed. The coach can put out two lefties in d draws late in the game and vice versa. We can handle giving substantially more minutes to the right side of the defense without reinventing the wheel.
 
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haohmaru said:
It's amazing, this place. HFB.

Years of agonizing Girardi @ 1D. Coulda shoulda would Stralman. Boyle. Smith. Shattenkirk. Wish he had a legit RD. Wish we had a legit 2RD. Wish we had a decent RD period.

Fast forward. Let's trade the first 50-60 point D man we've had in a generation for a forward. Trouba. Fox. ADA. Right side covered for years, but let's get a forward instead. Short memories around here. Unless Lundkvist is a shoe-in to be an NHL starter (let's remember Lias was guaranteed to be "NHL ready" too) next year, I don't see any reason to move ADA unless the return is stupefying.

Honestly, if I'm trading ADA for anything it's a 1LD because Skjei, Staal, Lindgren (who, IMHO, is exceeding every expectation I've had this year) Smith, Hajek are all not 1D's and never will be. Is ADA? No. But he's also the rare D that, apparently, can hit the 50+ point mark and that's worth a whole lot in and of itself.

Deadline? I trade Kreider. Don't see how you can keep him and sign everyone else unless Staal rides of into the sunset or you can deal Smith + a 3rd to someone for, well, nothing. Just to take him. Fast? Team guy, leader, will have an impact on the room but I think it's time to part ways unless there's hometown deal to be had. I'm fine with Strome if only for the chemistry he has with Panarin who seems to be happy with his center. Chytil has grown this year and there's no reason to think that won't improve further next year. Kakko will get there. Howden seems better suited for the wing.

Kreider will hurt, for sure, but you had to know that Shattenkirk buyout was coming with a cost.
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They are going to have to move one of the RHD to the left if they are going to keep all of them. I can't imagine having them wanting to have a 5M+ defenseman on the "3rd pairing".
 
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GAGLine said:
There's a thread on the trade board about Wilson wanting a 1st round pick. They have guys like Hertl and Meier who would fit in very well. Obviously our 1st would be very appealing, and Georgiev is a player they could use. I wonder if there's a way we could get one of those players without trading our 1st. Maybe we trade Kreider for a 1st+ and then use that first in the deal, along with Georgiev and another pick in 2021.

What do people think? Is there a potential deal there? If we had to use our 1st (depending on where it falls), would you still be interested in one of those players?
Click to expand...

I can see Kreider’s return and other available assets turned immediately (same deadline) into a young ready-made player from a team that wants to change its core.
 
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haohmaru said:
It's amazing, this place. HFB.

Years of agonizing Girardi @ 1D. Coulda shoulda would Stralman. Boyle. Smith. Shattenkirk. Wish he had a legit RD. Wish we had a legit 2RD. Wish we had a decent RD period.

Fast forward. Let's trade the first 50-60 point D man we've had in a generation for a forward. Trouba. Fox. ADA. Right side covered for years, but let's get a forward instead. Short memories around here. Unless Lundkvist is a shoe-in to be an NHL starter (let's remember Lias was guaranteed to be "NHL ready" too) next year, I don't see any reason to move ADA unless the return is stupefying.

Honestly, if I'm trading ADA for anything it's a 1LD because Skjei, Staal, Lindgren (who, IMHO, is exceeding every expectation I've had this year) Smith, Hajek are all not 1D's and never will be. Is ADA? No. But he's also the rare D that, apparently, can hit the 50+ point mark and that's worth a whole lot in and of itself.

Deadline? I trade Kreider. Don't see how you can keep him and sign everyone else unless Staal rides of into the sunset or you can deal Smith + a 3rd to someone for, well, nothing. Just to take him. Fast? Team guy, leader, will have an impact on the room but I think it's time to part ways unless there's hometown deal to be had. I'm fine with Strome if only for the chemistry he has with Panarin who seems to be happy with his center. Chytil has grown this year and there's no reason to think that won't improve further next year. Kakko will get there. Howden seems better suited for the wing.

Kreider will hurt, for sure, but you had to know that Shattenkirk buyout was coming with a cost.
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So straight forward and obvious, but for some reason generated (and will continue to generate) a ton of debate.
 
As long as Tony D plays on a team with Bread & Zib ( and hopefully our extremely young next year breakout candidates..) this current production will be there.

Believe that.

You don't trade a potential serious piece of the future core of this very young team.
 
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Rongomania said:
As long as Tony D plays on a team with Bread & Zib ( and hopefully our extremely young next year breakout candidates..) this current production will be there.

Believe that.

You don't trade a potential serious piece of the future core of this very young team.
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can’t top that accurate wrist shot. The problem the Rangers have had for years were no sharp shooters. Hustle, hustle, hustle and no goals. ADA has that sniper shot the team needs.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
They are going to have to move one of the RHD to the left if they are going to keep all of them. I can't imagine having them wanting to have a 5M+ defenseman on the "3rd pairing".
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A 3rd pairing defenseman who plays both on the pp and pk is a lot different from one who doesn't. We're talking the difference between 12 minutes a game and closer to 18.

Matchups matter, sure, but benches can be shortened in a pinch.

Fox and Trouba will be playing both pp and pk from the right in a year. Ada is a staple on the first pp unit and will get many minutes that way.

Each team usually needs two all situations defenders that play both the pp and pk. It just happens that with us that will be both right handers.

*Until such a time as someone like Rykov or Miller on the left forces their way onto the powerplay, in which case a team can still feasibly have three all situations dmen. It just means one poor guy will get stuck not seeing much time in typical special teams situations. (Not uncommon for a #6)
 
NYSPORTS said:
can’t top that accurate wrist shot. The problem the Rangers have had for years were no sharp shooters. Hustle, hustle, hustle and no goals. ADA has that sniper shot the team needs.
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It's so soft and weird and kind of makes no sense and I completely love it. Total traffic-picker for sure. Kid is a beast.

Kudos on this one for sure to Gorton & Co. they saw that with the right amount of patience + proper surroundings, the kid would thrive.
 
I can see the argument that you're trading high on DeAngelo this season. Lots of proration fanatics, but DeAngelo isn't a 60 point defenseman yet. If he keeps up his current (career shattering) pace, he will be, but we're a ways away from that.

Moving forward, if Lundkvist is NHL ready next season (which I think is likely), you have some options.
- Play 4 RHD. I'd assume there will be some desire to not have Smith playing up front anymore, if that's the case, one of Fox, TDA, Nils will need to play regular PK time and another one will need to play semi-regular PK time as the #5 option. None have been regular PKers at the NHL level.
- Move Fox. How dare you?
- Move Trouba. Lots of PK time to shuffle around, and will be far more defensive heavy lifting for Fox than I would like.
- Keep Lundkvist outside the NHL or trade him before he proves himself at that level.
-Move Tony.

I'm sure the Rangers wouldn't be too excited about going long-term on someone that potentially doubled his career-high points production. The other option is negotiate a one-year deal with a guy who potentially (maybe rightfully) has a bee in his bonnet about his first venture into restricted free agency. I'm sure the Rangers remember him fanning the flames on Twitter last summer. Or you could go to arbitration. Tony is very reactive and I don't see arbitration playing out well in terms of sustaining a long-term relationship.

I think he's a great player, and my price would be very high, but I can see the argument how that's the best option.
 
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Athletic Article:

Do you pay attention to advanced stats?


stats.png


The advanced stats revolution may be informing decisions off the ice but it has not yet made its way to the players.
“f*** no,” said an Atlantic Division player. “I think they’re stupid.”
“I don’t even pay attention to normal stats,” said a Pacific Division player.
“I don’t know enough about it to pay attention,” said another Atlantic player. “It’s more like accounting, I have somebody for that. Leave it up to them.”
From a Pacific Division player who said Yes: “I think they have a place. I don’t think you can look at any one and say, ‘This guy’s a good player or this guy isn’t.’ There has to be context in everything.”
One Atlantic Division player summed up the issue very thoughtfully.
“I think it’s intuitive for us. I know when I’ve been getting shelled on a shift or a whole game,” he said. “We know that – I don’t need someone to tell me that. I’ve been doing this for a long time. … You just know if things are going well or not, whether its shot attempts against or whatever metric is being used.”
 
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What should the cap number be for a 3rd pair defender who does what ADA or Fox does?

Kind of seems to me like they could save on cap elsewhere if they are going to get like ~140 points from their right side D?
 
haohmaru said:
Athletic Article:

Do you pay attention to advanced stats?


stats.png


The advanced stats revolution may be informing decisions off the ice but it has not yet made its way to the players.
“**** no,” said an Atlantic Division player. “I think they’re stupid.”
“I don’t even pay attention to normal stats,” said a Pacific Division player.
“I don’t know enough about it to pay attention,” said another Atlantic player. “It’s more like accounting, I have somebody for that. Leave it up to them.”
From a Pacific Division player who said Yes: “I think they have a place. I don’t think you can look at any one and say, ‘This guy’s a good player or this guy isn’t.’ There has to be context in everything.”
One Atlantic Division player summed up the issue very thoughtfully.
“I think it’s intuitive for us. I know when I’ve been getting shelled on a shift or a whole game,” he said. “We know that – I don’t need someone to tell me that. I’ve been doing this for a long time. … You just know if things are going well or not, whether its shot attempts against or whatever metric is being used.”
Click to expand...

players shouldn't pay attention to them...if you are a player paying attention to them you are probably focusing on trying to inflate your own numbers for your next contract...the real question would be the level of importance that coaches and front office personnel put on it. I think they all look at it but varying levels...
 
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“In 1987, DeAngelo would have been a 70 point defenseman” - us, 6 months ago

JD is shrewd enough to keep him here without breaking the bank. The gentleman’s club of NHL GMs will not Penner us. Right?
 
Do the Rangers have something going with the Flyers?





Lehigh Valley Phantoms photographer twitter account.

The Rangers scouted the Flyers AHL team 2x in the last few days.

Morgan Frost played in those games.

The Flyers also have Joel Farabee.

The Flyers need a righty D. They bring home local Tony D.

How are the Rangers replacing Kreider's speed? Farabee.

The Rangers have Nils Lundkivist to replace DeAngelo.
 
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haohmaru said:
Athletic Article:

Do you pay attention to advanced stats?


stats.png


The advanced stats revolution may be informing decisions off the ice but it has not yet made its way to the players.
“**** no,” said an Atlantic Division player. “I think they’re stupid.”
“I don’t even pay attention to normal stats,” said a Pacific Division player.
“I don’t know enough about it to pay attention,” said another Atlantic player. “It’s more like accounting, I have somebody for that. Leave it up to them.”
From a Pacific Division player who said Yes: “I think they have a place. I don’t think you can look at any one and say, ‘This guy’s a good player or this guy isn’t.’ There has to be context in everything.”
One Atlantic Division player summed up the issue very thoughtfully.
“I think it’s intuitive for us. I know when I’ve been getting shelled on a shift or a whole game,” he said. “We know that – I don’t need someone to tell me that. I’ve been doing this for a long time. … You just know if things are going well or not, whether its shot attempts against or whatever metric is being used.”
Click to expand...
That snippet is funny. Seems like they interviewed some players after a western team played an eastern team. One sample size of opinions from two locker rooms. Anecdotal evidence from a small sample size to discuss advance stats. That's funny to me.
 
RangerBoy said:
Do the Rangers have something going with the Flyers?





Lehigh Valley Phantoms photographer twitter account.

The Rangers scouted the Flyers AHL team 2x in the last few days.

Morgan Frost played in those games.

The Flyers also have Joel Farabee.

The Flyers need a righty D. They bring home local Tony D.

How are the Rangers replacing Kreider's speed? Farabee.

The Rangers have Nils Lundkivist to replace DeAngelo.
Click to expand...

It's imminent.
 
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