Speculation: Roster Building Thread XII

[brakeyawself]

Agree to disagree on this one. There are many examples of players doing superb after a change of scenery. Lindholm, Strome, Bennett to name a few. But there are many more that have elevated their overall game and point totals just by leaving a constant loser

Yup. JT Miller should be an obvious one as we wasted and misused him while he was in NY. Was so upset to see him go. Blake Wheeler another one who turned into a superstar after changing scenery.

 

[rangers1314]

 

[jay from jersey]

Dvorak would be fine but he doesn’t move the needle much for me

and you’d probably have to overpay to get him because what else does Arizona have center wise? Squat

so for those reasons, I’m out

Cash Poor looking for cheap talent and picks back. That’s why they trading Garland. They blowing it up for Bedard/Wright.
Bobhop with the info

 

[brakeyawself]

The #1 pick overall is definitely lumped in with Fox. I’m thinking the #2 is too. This line of cap preparation is why, if the fans were in charge, the Rangers would lose all these guys. Hoping the Rangers are smarter yet if they resign guys like Kreider, go shopping for the Trouba’s and award everybody these NTC, the Rangers are the NHL best farm system for the rest of the NHL.

Trouba's NMC is up in 2023. So hopefully they can move him at that point. Buch definitely isn't staying long term, I would think.

I imagine they will try to sign Fox for the max years at a fairly high number.

Laf will be given every opportunity and I expect be re-signed.

Kakko is a different story. If he doesn't break out offensively, even with his progress in other areas, I don't know if they would automatically re-sign him. Or it would have to be a bridge deal. I think, if Kravtsov ends up breaking out and Kakko does not, that they would even consider trading Kakko eventually. But I do think that depends on what Kravtsov does. I don't think Kakko is a complete No Trade like I assume Fox, Panarin, Laf and Shesterkin are.

 

[brakeyawself]

At best, Dvorak is just Chytil with ice time.

Dvorak is clearly far superior in faceoffs and physical play. I think Dvorak is better defensively too. Offensively, Chytil probably has the edge, but Dvorak certainly isn't bad. He'd be a perfect 3C for a stacked team, or a temporary 2C while a younger C like Chytil learns the ropes. Dvorak can also play wing, so he would even be a great guy to pair with Chytil who cant win a faceoff for his life. Well, he did get a little better, but not there yet.

 

[Mac n Gs]

On Frank Seravalli’s podcast from yesterday, he did a mock expansion draft and mentioned that there’s a rumor out there that PHI and SEA could be working on a deal for them to select Hagg, but also take Tarasenko from STL. They’d also send Voracek and a 1st to SEA to bring in Tarasenko.

Fletcher really seems to be going for it in the last few years of Giroux’s window. They have a ton of cap locked into aging players, and it’ll be interesting to see how they navigate it.

 

[MrAlmost]

Switching position becomes really tough after Bantam.

 

[jay from jersey]

I could see Hajek + Jones + 15th for Dvorak + ______(rights to Anti Raanta?)

Crouse baby

 

[Thirty One]

Frank Servalli mentioned a possible scenario where Seattle claims Robert Hagg and Tarasenko, then trade Tarasenko for Voracek and a 1st.

 

[Raspewtin]

Let’s try Fox at Center! It’s such an easy position to play, anybody can do it. Even anybody!

Laf-Zbad-Kakko
Panarin-Fox-Kravtsov
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow
Barron-Rooney-Gauthier/Blackwell

Lindgren-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist
Robertson-Schneider

this might’ve been funny if i had brain damage

 

[UnSandvich]

All I can say is i really hope Drury isn't stupid enough to trade for Eichel. Especially with some of the overpays people are putting in this thread

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

have we tried Gallant at center yet?

 

[brakeyawself]

Random thoughts after the weekend:

• A lot of people are going to hate the Goodrow contract, but the team clearly envisions a major role for him, whether hes the guy doing the dirty work on Panarin's line or if hes supporting Chytil on the 3rd line.
• Strome & Buchnevich are goners. They cant commit to Buch with 2 ELC RWs & Goodrow now in the mix. hes a good player, but not irreplaceable like some fans think. Strome i could see traded for cap space and/or to move up in the 1st round.
• Eichel is still plan A, but i think the Rangers move on if theres no deal by Friday. Either way, with the Horvat/Larkin/Dvorak chatter, it seems clear upgrading at center is clearly at the top of the list

Yea, but there is no way Vancouver trades Horvat. Not for what Rangers are likely to give up at least. Nucks would not move Horvat for like Buch and Robertson. I think would need way more. Probably same for Larkin. Even though he had a down year, he wasn't named Captain because they thought they would move him soon. Out of those 3, Dvorak is the only one I could see really being moved by their club. If we could get him straight up for Buch, I would do it. Even if had to throw in a Tuomanen or something. But then, what to do with Strome? I really wish they could move Strome. I could see Dvorak coming in and playing on Chytil's wing and taking faceoffs for that line though. Or, Strome moved down to third line, taking faceoffs for Chytil.

But yea, Center is definitely the priority.

 

[Off Sides]

Hayes I think started as a wing with the Rangers and he was not very good, and then moved to center where he was better. Or maybe he started as center was not good, moved to wing and was worse, so went back to center.

MSL I think started a season for the Rangers as a center due to injuries, and as I remember that went poorly.

 

[jay from jersey]

You guys realize players like Gourde and Dvorak aren't guys you go "all-in" for,


r-right?

Whose going all in?

 

[Thirty One]

Hayes I think started as a wing with the Rangers and he was not very good, and then moved to center where he was better. Or maybe he started as center was not good, moved to wing and was worse, so went back to center.

MSL I think started a season for the Rangers as a center due to injuries, and as I remember that went poorly.

Hayes started at center.

 

[brakeyawself]

All I can say is i really hope Drury isn't stupid enough to trade for Eichel. Especially with some of the overpays people are putting in this thread

100% I hate the idea of Eichel coming here, giving up the farm and finding out his neck injury is chronic and he'll never be the same player or play a full 82 games a season. Too many risks right now for what Eichel will cost.

I would much rather get a guy like Dvorak, Monahan or anybody that will cost less but still be a suitable top 6 center.

 

[tlk]

walrus

> Cat
just saying

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Not sure if this was brought up, but with Goodrow trying to be brought into the fold, and the protection of Rooney - does that mean its more likely that one of Chytil or Strome is traded?

 

[Off Sides]

Hayes started at center.

You are correct, yet there was some movement there, and if this link is correct, apparently he was a natural wing before the Rangers moved him to center.

New York Rangers: Should Kevin Hayes Play Wing or Center?

 

[Daves a mess]

I'd pay a $100 bill right now for this Eichel crap to end one day before it actually does.

 

[jay from jersey]

Isn't this a red herring though? Or a straw man? I can't keep my logical fallacies straight.

Point is, who is really arguing that we "need more scoring"?

I think the major argument that almost everyone is making in regard to Eichel, is in regard to a larger argument that we want more young center talent, which goes hand in hand with the "We are apprehensive about giving Zibanejad 7 years at age 29," argument, which goes hand in hand with the "should we be focusing on building around Panarin/Zibanejad/Kreider or Lafreneiere/Kakko/Chytil/Fox?" debate.

It seems to me that advocating for Eichel mostly centers around two concepts (at least that's what I'm steadfastly arguing, so maybe my read of other's posts is tainted in this aspect):

1) Desire for overall better center talent (not necessarily scoring), as most cup winners the past decade and a half have either elite center talent or elite center depth, and

2) Desire for more youth at center so that we have the core to grow with Lafreniere/Kakko/Chytil/Fox, et al.

As I've said in my posts supporting an Eichel trade, first, I'm not emptying the cupboard - I would have a deal centered around, like, Buch/Strome/Jones/15OA. I wouldn't even deal Kravtsov or Lundkvist at this point given his contract and injury uncertainty, but if I can get him for something LIKE that, I do it all day long. If that's fantasy (which it might be to an extent, but I don't think an Eichel package requires anything close to what some have speculated or what Buffalo has asked for), then I move on to other targets. I'm not a huge fan of the Larkin or Lindholm ideas, but I would certainly be aggressive to teams like Florida and Vegas, or other teams who fancy themselves playoff contenders, to try to get shots at guys like Lundell, Krebs, Rossi, Perfetti, Newhook, Vilardi, etc.

Some of those names are well-rounded 200 foot players, not simply "more scoring," prospects.

I think the major idea here is that we have Zibanejad, Chytil, and very little else worth mentioning at center, whereas we have wingers for days.

There is a lot of uncertainty at a position where it's pretty widely thought that you need, need, need pretty high end talent. Are there exceptions? Of course. But the general rule is win with top centers. Or at least that's how you stay a decade-long contender, which is kinda what we are aiming for.

Anyway, Eichel fits in here because he gives us more youth and more roster flexibility in terms of checking off a "long term need" box for those who don't want to be held over a barrel with Zibanejad in 12 months.

I understand there is uncertainty there, in the form of his injury and his existing contract to make you hesitate (though I might argue the 5 years left on that deal make it a positive, not a negative). But what always seems left unsaid is that there should kinda be equal uncertainty if we do nothing but ride what we have.

That’s all well and good. And I agree with many of your points, but that fact of the matter is, if NYR want to keep LaF, Kakko, shesty etc your not getting Eichel even injured without nils going the other way. They would want a 1D prospect and draft Beniers as a replacement C.
The package you listed above would be bested by several teams. So the fact remains, Drury is serious about getting Eichel or not?
He also needs to find a way to keep both Eichel and Zibby on the team beyond next season. They aren’t going to take 1 step fwd and 2 steps back

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

100% I hate the idea of Eichel coming here, giving up the farm and finding out his neck injury is chronic and he'll never be the same player or play a full 82 games a season. Too many risks right now for what Eichel will cost.

I would much rather get a guy like Dvorak, Monahan or anybody that will cost less but still be a suitable top 6 center.

This is such a different tier of trade that they shouldn't even be compared. The team with a healthy Eichel is increidlby different than with a Monahan, Dvorak, etc. I totally understand people not wanting to trade a shitload for Eichel and being wary of the neck injury. But holy hell is he severely underrated here. When healthy, this guy is an elite, game-breaking center.

 

[Raspewtin]

Hayes I think started as a wing with the Rangers and he was not very good, and then moved to center where he was better. Or maybe he started as center was not good, moved to wing and was worse, so went back to center.

MSL I think started a season for the Rangers as a center due to injuries, and as I remember that went poorly.

Hayes played center almost his entire Rangers career after being a wing in college.

MSL played center a few games and it was atrocious

 

[tlk]

giving up the farm

the thing is, it might by the only oppo to get someone of his quality while not giving up the farm