Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[bernmeister]

i get that argument for lindgren, and unfortunately i think he's likely to be a cap casualty no matter what, but personally i'd really like to keep him. will depend on him really, if he wants to max out we cant keep him, but if he wants to make it work to stay w/ fox / on this team, it will be worked out. but yes the injuries are an issue, cgy has had that w/ tanev. will say guys like him mean the world to a locker room, and it's no small thing to move them or let them walk when something could have been done. that's another part of my hesitation there.

as far as jones / robertson...i really like jones and hope the new coach is a guy who recognizes we could use a bit more zip back there. i hope he at the very least gets a long leash to make a lineup spot his. robertson tho...i thought he was getting healthbombed in hartford, no? he's obviously still young but hard to project him to the roster in the near future if he's not in an ahl top 6. having said that, that is a legit question, i don't know what his deal is. if he got hurt i missed anything about it. coulda sworn i saw he basically got passed over. i expect jones to def be an nhl dman, but if you're an org i don't think that either, at this point, qualify as guys you need to be making room for.

it's also not like you can't find guys if you put them in the right roles/systems. hell look at florida right now, their top 6 is like the island of misfit toys. montour was a journeyman who got going in the right direction w/ quenneville and now he looks like a norris winner...i had never heard of a gustav forsling...radko gudas has some good qualities but he's limited...and then of course marc staal who we didn't want in our rebuild lineup lining up w/ montour. ekblad is the only guy you'd "expect" to see on a conference finalist when you account for age and pedigree. so if you identify the right players it's obviously very possible to assemble a d core with cheaper spare parts. kinda cool looking at the top 6 of all 4 finalists tho...they're all very different.

bold: tellin da truth

 

[bernmeister]

They are more of a Goodrow destination since they have cap space and could use a vet that’s won

we should look to max our returns
Lindgren + to Buf for 1st +

Good to SJ IF we want max cap space
Maybe mid yr, do not need to do this day 1

Again peeps, can we manipulate
bread 2.x reduced to 9 per + __________
to Blues
for
Parayko reduced 2.5 to 4 per + ________ ????????????

Facebook is a horrible source

It’s just fan speculation . If he made a million less no one would say he’s a trade option the caps just tight

They probably should try and squeak in all the RFAs with bridge deals . Play Goodrow 3rd line wing with Othmaan and Chytil

keep kid line together as 2nd lline
Oth on 1st lie w/zib + ck

bread to 3rd line

 

[bernmeister]

Laf - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - X
Kreider - Trocheck - Vesey
Cuylle - Goodrow - Motte

No need to rush Othmann, sign a cheap 1 year deal on a speedy forechecking forward under the radar to fill X until he’s ready.

A we need to find another Vatrano, not bring back Motte

B keep kid line together give mo mins as 2nd line

C do not penalize Kreid/reward bread.
CK - MZ - Oth or Brodzinski
kid line
bread to 3rd l

 

[Machinehead]

A we need to find another Vatrano

You want me to die

 

[bernmeister]

You want me to die

Have to run so follow up later, but why adding a Vat type would be bad?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

first par is not accurate:
Girardi was fine til Torts instituted his every skater, esp every D, as a shot blocker, is another G.
He was a shell WAY before 30.

par 2 is wrong
bern's logic is correct here
you blindly ignore it and see what you want b'c this is a guy who has earned our love

but esp since we do not have so much surplus assets, particularly younger players, we need to deal/consider dealing assets that return desired profit of great picks = high upside prospects + cap space, and/or younger players which also slow pressure on cap.
Fact that guys like Lindy/Shesty are mid 30s, not 30s, is not excuse to reject considering guys 5-ish years younger IF IF IF they are quality assets being returned.

Stop repeating failure.
Build on youth

Yea and rightfully so. Guy plays his ass off and is one of the few heart and soul players we have.

But you want to trade him now because...he may or may not be a shell of himself in 4-6 years? Makes sense.

 

[bernmeister]

Yea and rightfully so. Guy plays his ass off and is one of the few heart and soul players we have.

But you want to trade him now because...he may or may not be a shell of himself in 4-6 years? Makes sense.

Do not falsely change the narrative
He is ALREADY starting to turn into a shell
Process will accelerate, not decelerate at this rate of play + cumulative blows to the body

yes, selling high makes way more sense than holding and his value diminishes

 

[Machinehead]

Have to run so follow up later, but why adding a Vat type would be bad?

He absolutely sucks ass.

He's the type of player where his team is getting clowned every time he's on the ice but the two good plays he makes per game are memorable.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think Lindgren is wholly replaceable and I refuse to give him his next deal

But I doubt the Rangers feel the same

MSG is the propaganda machine and it was insane how much they were saying Fox basically can’t play with anyone but Lindgren to be good

 

[2014nyr]

bold: tellin da truth

 

[Leonardo87]

Have to run so follow up later, but why adding a Vat type would be bad?

Vatrano actually had a career season in Anaheim which was on a historically bad team. He had found some chemistry with Zegras who unfortunately only put up 65 points. So wasn’t good enough, imo. But can put more blame on the coaching and system.

But Machinehead is right to gripe , Vatrano is good at sniping goals but can’t play defense and turns the puck over way too much. Is a rush type player, but too many one and dones and then ends up pinned in his own zone with other line mates who struggle on defense. Was a real mess to see. Anaheim broke the record for SOG against in a season, yup. lol

I think he just needs to be utilized better and if he is on a line with a guy who can cover the defense then it’s not so bad. He has a great shot and if used can be another weapon in the arsenal.

 

[Machinehead]

I think there's a misconception of what this team is actually bad at.

You can throw whatever intangible you like at it; what they need to improve is very tangible. They don't produce enough at even strength.

Personally, I think Vatrano is a player who looks like he's hustling because he's ten steps behind the play all the time, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he hustles. Hustle isn't what we need. He's not good at 5v5 offense. He exists and scores 20 goals. That's the nicest thing you can say. That's Alexis Lafreniere. We have it already.

Whatever things and stuff you think Panarin does bad, and there are a few of them, he's one of two forwards on this team who's decent at both driving play and scoring 5v5. The team would get demonstrably worse without him, changing nothing else, bad habits and all.

It's ok to mad at Panarin for having to play the Devils basically without him, but that's what the team looks like without him.

I'd be very happy to add a "soft" player like this over the Motte's, Vatrano's, Acciari's, or whoever else in the collection of players who look like they're doing something when they're not.

That's what the lizard part of your brain is doing. You want guys who look like they're doing something when we're getting outplayed, instead of correcting that we're getting outplayed.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Do not falsely change the narrative
He is ALREADY starting to turn into a shell
Process will accelerate, not decelerate at this rate of play + cumulative blows to the body

yes, selling high makes way more sense than holding and his value diminishes

Falsely change the narrative? Do you even know what that means since you completely used it wrong.

 

[Vitto79]

I think Lindgren is wholly replaceable and I refuse to give him his next deal

But I doubt the Rangers feel the same

MSG is the propaganda machine and it was insane how much they were saying Fox basically can’t play with anyone but Lindgren to be good

They likely don’t feel that way cause he’s not easily replaceable . Dudes a warrior and likely won’t need a big bump to resign . Fox loves the guy if that’s not obvious

 

[Bruner4329]

They likely don’t feel that way cause he’s not easily replaceable . Dudes a warrior and likely won’t need a big bump to resign . Fox loves the guy if that’s not obvious

The posts that keep mentioning to trade Lindgren, trade Goodrow are being short sided. Its more than just on ice talent. You are getting rid of the grit and too many intangibles and will be stuck with too many soft players instead. Maybe if guys like Miller and Laf had half the grit of these guys this would be an option.

 

[Machinehead]

We have role players.

Jimmy Vesey is an S-tier defender and plays a solid, simple game. Kakko is the play-driving 5v5 menace we've been looking for since Hagelin, albeit not as well incorporated into a system as Hagelin was.

As a brief tangent, Torts basically took Hagelin and made that the way the entire team played. It sounds dumb but it was beautiful. I would love for this whole team to play off the cycle like Kakko does. They're built for it.

Who wouldn't love a physical, versatile, cycle machine who scores at a 30-goal pace in the playoffs, like half of those in elimination games? Oh shit that's Chris Kreider, now you don't believe me.

We have role players. We simply don't score enough. We need to do a better job of incorporating our role players and stars into one system. If we start playing a better system and Panarin just f***s off, then we'll cross that bridge when that happens, but it hasn't happened. He's basically done what he's been asked to do. Go out and play.

 

[HonestGabe]

I think there's a misconception of what this team is actually bad at.

You can throw whatever intangible you like at it; what they need to improve is very tangible. They don't produce enough at even strength.

Personally, I think Vatrano is a player who looks like he's hustling because he's ten steps behind the play all the time, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he hustles. Hustle isn't what we need. He's not good at 5v5 offense. He exists and scores 20 goals. That's the nicest thing you can say. That's Alexis Lafreniere. We have it already.

Whatever things and stuff you think Panarin does bad, and there are a few of them, he's one of two forwards on this team who's decent at both driving play and scoring 5v5. The team would get demonstrably worse without him, changing nothing else, bad habits and all.

It's ok to mad at Panarin for having to play the Devils basically without him, but that's what the team looks like without him.

View attachment 711416

I'd be very happy to add a "soft" player like this over the Motte's, Vatrano's, Acciari's, or whoever else in the collection of players who look like they're doing something when they're not.

That's what the lizard part of your brain is doing. You want guys who look like they're doing something when we're getting outplayed, instead of correcting that we're getting outplayed.

Garland is a faster, more skilled Jesper Fast type player. If VAN is stupid enough to buy him out, I give him 3x3 deal without blinking. He is the swiss army knife player this team thought Barclay Goodrow is, he's just being asked to play in only a top 6 winger spot on a team that sucks at most things.

He'd be a great wing next to Panarin. Or even opposite Laf and Chytil on line 3

 

[pld459666]

It sure does. Do you want to give him a retirement deal at a $6 million cap hit? We'd regret the contract 2 or 3 years into it. He has two years left of club control. It's better to trade a player like him a year too early than a year too late. If a team on the bubble looking to make the playoffs soon offers the 8th through 14th pick for him next month, I do it without hesitation.

Lindgren is a better player than Romanov whom the Islanders dealt the 13th pick for, but Romanov is younger and locked up for longer.

I give Lindgren 5x5 all day.

Thats not his retirement deal as he will be 31 when it expires.

 

[duhmetreE]

I give Lindgren 5x5 all day.

Thats not his retirement deal as he will be 31 when it expires.

That's too much for Lindgren imo. He's a black hole offensively

I think there's a misconception of what this team is actually bad at.

You can throw whatever intangible you like at it; what they need to improve is very tangible. They don't produce enough at even strength.

Personally, I think Vatrano is a player who looks like he's hustling because he's ten steps behind the play all the time, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he hustles. Hustle isn't what we need. He's not good at 5v5 offense. He exists and scores 20 goals. That's the nicest thing you can say. That's Alexis Lafreniere. We have it already.

Whatever things and stuff you think Panarin does bad, and there are a few of them, he's one of two forwards on this team who's decent at both driving play and scoring 5v5. The team would get demonstrably worse without him, changing nothing else, bad habits and all.

It's ok to mad at Panarin for having to play the Devils basically without him, but that's what the team looks like without him.

View attachment 711416

I'd be very happy to add a "soft" player like this over the Motte's, Vatrano's, Acciari's, or whoever else in the collection of players who look like they're doing something when they're not.

That's what the lizard part of your brain is doing. You want guys who look like they're doing something when we're getting outplayed, instead of correcting that we're getting outplayed.

Who called Garland soft?

He's the exact type of player we need.

 

[Machinehead]

Who called Garland soft?

He's the exact type of player we need.

Somebody will.

They call Chris Kreider soft. He's in front of the net right now. He lives there.

 

[bigdog16]

I don't get the Lindgren love fest. Poured his heart and soul out for the Rangers and I do respect him for that. But Bern is right in saying that he's already turning into a shell of himself. Id be shocked if this dude has many years in this league past 30. He doesn't move well to begin with and takes an absolute beating. Somethings gotta give

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't get the Lindgren love fest. Poured his heart and soul out for the Rangers and I do respect him for that. But Bern is right in saying that he's already turning into a shell of himself. Id be shocked if this dude has many years in this league past 30. He doesn't move well to begin with and takes an absolute beating. Somethings gotta give

I dont think he's turning into a shell of himself, he's just being over slotted.

If he was on the 2nd or 3rd pair, he's fine. But for some reason we can't play him on the 3rd pair because of heart.

Ideally, if we don't make a move for a LHD, the pairs are

KAM Fox
Jones Trouba
Lindgren Schneider

Late game, Lindgren can play with Trouba.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I personally prefer othmann do a year down in hartford and come up for the 24-25 season but god damn does this kid compete. Hes always in everyones face and plays with a real edge.

Adding a 21 year old like this to the roster who outcompetes all the soft vets we have could really spark them and light a fire under their asses. If a 21 year old is very publicly displaying he cares more than you.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I don't get the Lindgren love fest. Poured his heart and soul out for the Rangers and I do respect him for that. But Bern is right in saying that he's already turning into a shell of himself. Id be shocked if this dude has many years in this league past 30. He doesn't move well to begin with and takes an absolute beating. Somethings gotta give

Cool, he is 24. So we can trade him when he is 29.

 

[Machinehead]

I personally prefer othmann do a year down in hartford and come up for the 24-25 season but god damn does this kid compete. Hes always in everyones face and plays with a real edge.

Adding a 21 year old like this to the roster who outcompetes all the soft vets we have could really spark them and light a fire under their asses. If a 21 year old is very publicly displaying he cares more than you.

I really hope we get the right coach and employ the right system.

If you throw Othmann into the freelancing bullshit we've been doing, his questionable skating is going to make him a non-factor. He needs to be part of a puck support system.