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Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

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LOFIN said:
He also wants money. And the Rangers don't have that. No, not even if they got rid of Goodrow.

Even last year there were whispers Tarasenko still perceives himself of being worth 7ish AAV, and he's looking for term.
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Yeah well no way he is getting $7 now in this market.

Max i see him being able to get is $5 and thats if he signs with a non-contender.

Otherwise he is probably at $3-$4.
 
kyk1827 said:
The team needs more pricks plain and simple. Its why othmann and cuylle making this team I think would really give the team a much needed jolt.

If youre a vet youre not gonna wanna be shown up by a couple of 20 year olds very blatantly showing they care more than you.

Kreider-mika-kakko
Panarin-chytil-laff
Othmann-trocheck-wheeler
Cuylle-bonino-goodrow
Vesey

It wont happen. However its a joke that cuylles roster spot will be taken by pitlick
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Vesey likely plays over Pitlick, both play over Othmann,.. bottom-six LWs both rookies? That probably SHOULDN'T happen>
 
RGY said:
Yeah well no way he is getting $7 now in this market.

Max i see him being able to get is $5 and thats if he signs with a non-contender.

Otherwise he is probably at $3-$4.
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Brooks wrote that Tarasenko had deals ranging from 5,5 to 6mil at various lengths on the table, including contending teams (Carolina, Seattle?). But Tarasenko wasn't happy and fired his agent.
 
LOFIN said:
Brooks wrote that Tarasenko had deals ranging from 5,5 to 6mil at various lengths on the table, including contending teams (Carolina, Seattle?). But Tarasenko wasn't happy and fired his agent.
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Even if we had cap space, there's A LOT of other players that I'd pay that sum (6+M) before Tarasenko. I like the player, but he's a risk at that price and, most likely, term.
 
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LOFIN said:
Brooks wrote that Tarasenko had deals ranging from 5,5 to 6mil at various lengths on the table, including contending teams (Carolina, Seattle?). But Tarasenko wasn't happy and fired his agent.
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If this is true that is a serious miscalculation on his part. Read the room Tank.

haohmaru said:
Even if we had cap space, there's A LOT of other players that I'd pay that sum (6+M) before Tarasenko. I like the player, but he's a risk at that price and, most likely, term.
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Damn right. I'm shocked he was supposedly offered those numbers. I would think he was worth more like 4 mil per in this market.
 
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LOFIN said:


I don't know how you guys feel about Brooks. I've got the impression that while his opinions mostly suck, he still has some taps around the league.
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He absolutely does. We go through it every time when Brooks says stuff--a bunch of people jump on him for his sensationalized opinion pieces and off the wall speculation, which is fair. But they either forget or intentionally ignore that when he actually reports something ("Slapshots has been told..." or "Recently have learned") it's almost always correct, or at least as correct as any of the other "popular" names peddling rumors.

If he reports something as fact, I'm inclined to believe it.
 
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kyk1827 said:
Lets play the over/under game on goals scored in 23-24 from forwards I see playing 82 if healthy

Kreider: 34
Mika: 37
Kakko: 26
Panarin: 28
Chytil: 27
Laff: 25
Goodrow: 13
Trocheck: 19
Wheeler: 17
Bonino: 8
Click to expand...

Over
Over
Under
Under
Over, this is the year where everything goes in for him.
Under
Under
Over
Under
Over
 
kyk1827 said:
Lets play the over/under game on goals scored in 23-24 from forwards I see playing 82 if healthy

Kreider: 34
Mika: 37
Kakko: 26
Panarin: 28
Chytil: 27
Laff: 25
Goodrow: 13
Trocheck: 19
Wheeler: 17
Bonino: 8
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That comes to the same number our forwards scored last year. We will need our defense to score more.
 
duhmetreE said:
I worked for a HOF coach, therefore I know hockey better than you.

You keep saying that but it’s more embarrassing for you than validating.
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I know hockey cause I've been a lifelong fan. That puts me on par with everyone else here. What puts me over the top of the average donk is that I have real world experience around major athletics so I know how things work in real life and I don't apply an EA Sports mindset to every discussion.

Edit: Not to mention having elite common sense which means I grasp the basic tenets of not numbering lines, points schmoints, and putting a right handed shot in the bumper on a right to left PP.
 
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kyk1827 said:
Lets play the over/under game on goals scored in 23-24 from forwards I see playing 82 if healthy

Kreider: 34
Mika: 37
Kakko: 26
Panarin: 28
Chytil: 27
Laff: 25
Goodrow: 13
Trocheck: 19
Wheeler: 17
Bonino: 8
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Kreider Over 34
Mika I pray Over 37
Kakko Over 26
Panarin Less 28
Chytil Over 27
Laffy Over 25
Goodrow Less 13
Trocheck Over 19
Wheeler Less 17
Bonino Less 8

I don't think Wheeler plays 82
I think Lavi gets more out of the top6ers that are capable of getting in front and cleaning up
The kids production may be copium from me but I can see it coming together.
 
mas0764 said:
There is zero guarantee about anything.

But there is a template. Yeah, I know, everyone scoffs at that, as if you can't measure and compare the Cup winners. Especially the repeat winners (or at least repeat Finals appearance teams, such as Boston). It's "utopia," they say. It's a fantasy.

Well, it's not a fantasy. As I've said, at any given time, there are a couple teams in the league with an existing "core," -- and certainly that is a fluid definition because rosters change literally all the time, but I think we all know a core when we see one -- that will not only win a Cup but also be in the mix long term to win more than one. Even if it's just two teams out of 32, that's a 1/16th odds. That's not a fantasy, it's a very real numerical existence that you just have to work hard to break into.

At least how the last decade and a half has played out. LA, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Tampa. My guess is that Colorado joins this group by appearing in another Finals or two if not winning another with their MacKinnon/Makar core. But that's 5 teams that have won 11 of the last 15 Cups, and really that number is likely going to be 12 once we officially put Colorado in there in the next few years when they win again. 12 Cups in a 15 Cup span. 80% of the Cups. Would I rather suffer longer so I can join the 5 team club that wins 12 Cups, or would I rather take a short cut to the playoffs just so I can remain in the 27 team club that wins 3 Cups? Do the math.

You can look at all those super teams and make some sort of characterization of their high end quality and quality of depth. At no point have we ever favorably compared to any of those teams - either because when the "top 5 talents," you named were at their best (Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Shesterkin), the supporting cast sucked out loud (Laf and Kakko each had seasons as net negative players early in their careers, we employed too many black holes such as Howden, Reaves, Staal, Brendan Smith, Patrick Nemeth), or maybe now that the kids are starting to come around to better supporting players, guys like Panarin and Zibanejad are declining and no-showing.

We can have all the reasons we want as to why Laf, Kakko and Chytil didn't quickly turn into high end players while Panarin, Zibanejad, and Kreider were at their peaks but ultimately it doesn't matter. We're going to have two cores passing like ships in the night unless Laviollette gets these guys to play way better at 5v5 like, immediately, thereby quickly achieving the necessary talent level/production out of all these guys at the same time. They have like, this season, MAYBE next season.

If that doesn't happen, it's rebuild time again.

What is my implementation plan?

First, realize your long odds. Hell, it's everyone's rebuttal to the idea of a long rebuild: "Almost everyone loses, stop calling playoff eliminations 'failures,' because that's what happens to almost all teams, it's all random hot streaks, you can't make a real plan to win a Cup."

Ok, if that's the case, then #1, stop f***ing throwing away assets on randomness. Stop trading away picks for rentals. It's all just random anyway; if Panarin is going to show up and dominate, then we don't need to pay a first for Tarasenko. Those transactions ALMOST NEVER end up boosting a team enough to be the difference between winning and losing. Most of the times they have occurred, the players are acquired for long term, and not just one 6 week run, so if you are going to trade assets make sure it's a player you are going to want to bring back and be able to.

#2, once we bust on these long odds, which, since it's random and all and we are about the 10th best team in the league on paper, it's almost certain that we will in fact end up eliminated in the playoffs again, realize that subjecting yourself to entire eras where you are just hoping to get hot or lucky at the right time to be elevated over the other 12 teams who are similarly talented to you, is bad odds. Realize that if you are going to have to suffer for 4 years, why not make it 6 which could dramatically increase your talent pool and thus, give you an on-paper talent edge over the other 10-12 "second round playoff" caliber teams?

Yes, the draft is not an exact science, but it's actually NOT all random. Again, I can plot out a course for the NY Rangers dating back to the moment they decided to re-sign Chris Kreider, that probably puts them worse right this second but FAR BETTER positioned for the next 10 years.

Since we didn't win a Cup to this point anyway and probably won't this year.... that other course is probably the one we should have chosen.



Preach it.

And the Rangers jump-starting of their rebuild with "the letter" in 2018 - and really their realization of the need to rebuild early when they traded Stepan in 2017 - was exactly due to your point #4.

They got such a jump on the rebuild that way, it's just a shame that they busted their first two picks and then didn't see it through.
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Am I wrong to distill this down to “suck until you draft at least MacKinnon and Makar”?
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
The villan has been here long before Kakko and Lafreniere got drafted though, young forwards go here to die. The organization needs to figure it out quick or we'll be stuck in mediocrity forever if we dont hit on Kakko, Laf, Othmann ,Sykora and Perrault.
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I think a good first step would be for the organization to operate with the understanding that it’s ok to experiment, try, fail for the first 20, 30, 40 games of the season. Nothing lasts a whole season. Good or bad. Let the kids play while things shake out. Don’t overthink Oct-Dec. It’s a lonnnnnnng season.
 
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egelband said:
I think a good first step would be for the organization to operate with the understanding that it’s ok to experiment, try, fail for the first 20, 30, 40 games of the season. Nothing lasts a whole season. Good or bad. Let the kids play while things shake out. Don’t overthink Oct-Dec. It’s a lonnnnnnng season.
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Yup, Rangers have pretty much the same team before they added Kane and Tarasenko and they were easily in the playoffs at the TDL. They will be again so they need to give kids ample opportunities and keep lines together more a game etc. Also, Lav better not listen to who they want to play with unless they are performing well together. None of this crap where he adheres to the vets right away
 
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egelband said:
I think a good first step would be for the organization to operate with the understanding that it’s ok to experiment, try, fail for the first 20, 30, 40 games of the season. Nothing lasts a whole season. Good or bad. Let the kids play while things shake out. Don’t overthink Oct-Dec. It’s a lonnnnnnng season.
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This board couldn’t practice this approach for 20 minutes.
 
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