Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[17futurecap]

Panarin also isn’t waiving for Nashville


Adam Fox

Con: Isn’t Brian Leetch

Pro: Everything else



Very telling that no other NYR Dman is close to the this and they have three that were among the worst at it.

This is where the Rangers need to improve. Fox is the only one that isn’t terrible at this

Mikkola/Schneider should have been at 8-10 minutes a game, just a disaster pair, but that’s anyone that has to play with Schneider.

 

[CLW]

Panarin also isn’t waiving for Nashville


Adam Fox

Con: Isn’t Brian Leetch

Pro: Everything else



Very telling that no other NYR Dman is close to the this and they have three that were among the worst at it.

This is where the Rangers need to improve. Fox is the only one that isn’t terrible at this

Yeah but nobody wants to move Miller, Lindy or Schneider and Trouba is unmovable unless you attach a kid to him as incentive which people also don't want to do.

Better pray the new coach knows what he's doing (unlike the previous lot). How Murphy is still around I do not know.

 

[Savant]

Everyone ahead of Fox in this graphic plays a fairly limited role.

Nobody puts up the analytics or the counting numbers that Fox does while being asked to play the role he does. Not just now; I can't remember anybody.

He's not Brian Leetch. He's not anybody. He's the first Adam Fox.

Absolutely. I understand hard moves are going to need to be made, but they cannot subtract players that excel at the things they need to improve

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Thatwouldn't

Lets get more Lockwood types for former 1st round picks. That would be the value if both Lafy and Kakko asked for trades

That wouldn't be the players' problem; they wouldn't care who they get traded for, they would just want out.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Anyone who advocates for Mikkola to be re-signed should be banned from the boards.

 

[Savant]

Mikkola/Schneider should have been at 8-10 minutes a game, just a disaster pair, but that’s anyone that has to play with Schneider.

Yeah but nobody wants to move Miller, Lindy or Schneider and Trouba is unmovable unless you attach a kid to him as incentive which people also don't want to do.

Better pray the new coach knows what he's doing (unlike the previous lot). How Murphy is still around I do not know.

I mean it doesn’t matter if people don’t want to move those guys. It may or may not happen, not if you want to get better at something the team is bad at, they are going to have to make some hockey trades that people aren’t going to like in order to do so. I mean maybe you can get a guy like Ian Cole (and let Mikkola walk) for cheap to play with Schneider. That makes sense to to me. Can you get Devon Toews for Lindgren? Maybe; Colorado saves money long term? Don’t think Minnesota would have a ton of reason to do like Faber for Miller but maybe something like that makes sense?

They just have to get better at this aspect of hockey

 

[haohmaru]

I like Lindy but he is not a 1d in my opinion. I fear for him that all the bruises and injuries will take a toll at some point. I'm not nearly as high on Fox as the rest of the board either. Great on PP. Great at keeping the puck in the offensive zone but my compliments for Fox are rarely in his own zone. He skated like 32 year old Derek Stepan in his own zone in these playoffs. He is not Brian Leetch. I wish he was.

I'll agree to strongly disagree with your rose colored remembrances of Brian Leetch and over the top harshness in assessing Adam Fox. 2nd top 3 Norris finish in 3 years. It took Brian until age 27 to accomplish this.

Just look at the stats above. Look at the regular season advance statistics. The guy is a top 5 defensemen in the league as was Leetch.

I'm not going to forensically litigate this with you and you're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am equally entitled to disagree with it.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I'm not suggesting I think he's getting traded, but I don't think it's as far fetched as some here make it out to be.

Trading laff isnt far fetched if its a good return. The far fetched part is the maniacs here thinking hes not even worth a 5th-12th 1st round pick. Maniacs, asinine. Those people arent to be taken seriously

Goodrow was just a guy during his time here, they paid him because he won 2 Cups and was the easiest of the TB 3rd line to acquire. I do think the broken ankle and playing on it while it wasnt fully healed in the playoffs last year affected his game. The contract was designed to be easy to get out out of from the get go, so at the end of the day no harm no foul. But he is going to end up going to a good team next that can use him correctly and everyone will wonder why guys look better when they leave NY.

Ottowa has a ton of cap space this summer and needs a LHD. Wouldnt be crazy to see him and lindgren packaged to ottawa

 

[CLW]

I mean it doesn’t matter if people don’t want to move those guys. It may or may not happen, not if you want to get better at something the team is bad at, they are going to have to make some hockey trades that people aren’t going to like in order to do so. I mean maybe you can get a guy like Ian Cole (and let Mikkola walk) for cheap to play with Schneider. That makes sense to to me. Can you get Devon Toews for Lindgren? Maybe; Colorado saves money long term? Don’t think Minnesota would have a ton of reason to do like Faber for Miller but maybe something like that makes sense?

They just have to get better at this aspect of hockey

You're preaching to the choir. I was in disbelief for months watching "Gallant hockey" in his first season. At first I told myself the players were getting used to his new system and whatnot. Then I realized the brutal truth that Gallant didn't give a sh*t about this issue (or many others).

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Panarin also isn’t waiving for Nashville


Adam Fox

Con: Isn’t Brian Leetch

Pro: Everything else



Very telling that no other NYR Dman is close to the this and they have three that were among the worst at it.

This is where the Rangers need to improve. Fox is the only one that isn’t terrible at this

Would love gotisbehere I just dont see how we can afford him

 

[Savant]

Would love gotisbehere I just dont see how we can afford him

Carolina loves him. He will stay there

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin also isn’t waiving for Nashville


Adam Fox

Con: Isn’t Brian Leetch

Pro: Everything else



Very telling that no other NYR Dman is close to the this and they have three that were among the worst at it.

This is where the Rangers need to improve. Fox is the only one that isn’t terrible at this

It's amazing how Tampa just pulls these random players out of their ass... Now add Perbix into that mix

on account of those stats, our system is set up to fail. Fox overrides it usually with his brain.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Carolina loves him. He will stay there

Carolina isnt exactly known for resigning guys once they approach/hit 30

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers making the ECF in 2020-21 was the worst thing to happen to the franchise. They played Pittsburgh and Carolina with back-up goalies. Every podcast. Cup or bust. It's nauseating.

The Rangers can not make this move because they are Cup or bust. The Rangers need this type of player because they lost to Jersey. The Rangers need to hire this type of coach because they are Cup or bust.

 

[surlysailor]

Ottowa has a ton of cap space this summer and needs a LHD. Wouldnt be crazy to see him and lindgren packaged to ottawa

I really doubt they go hunting for a LHD, they have Chabot, Chychrun (can play both sides but is LH), Sanderson. Maybe they'll add a depth guy but I doubt they'll add Lindgren and block Sanderson

 

[McRanger92]

that is the only reason i think he might still be here. his play, positional need, contract outlook, ect certainly does not point to him needing to stay here. the only reason he is still here is his draft position. outside of that he has no utility to this team or roster at this point which is incredibly sad


agreed, but if they want to make a change, this is the easiest change to make to a roster that is completely landlocked. a complete mess. this is exactly what i warned about last summer when they signed trocheck and boxed them into this core...

I don’t mind the Trocheck contract still. The Core 4 were going to be immovable until after next season either way. They needed a 3rd center and he had his most points since 2017. He’s also the only guy on the team who can win a faceoff. All this with being jerked around by Gallant and Panarin all year. Mika-Chytil-Trocheck is strong center depth.

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers making the ECF in 2020-21 was the worst thing to happen to the franchise. They played Pittsburgh and Carolina with back-up goalies. Every podcast. Cup or bust. It's nauseating.

The Rangers can not make this move because they are Cup or bust. The Rangers need this type of player because they lost to Jersey. The Rangers need to hire this type of coach because they are Cup or bust.

Yeah, I keep hearing that too. Cup or Bust. Can we win a f***ing round first?

 

[Synergy27]

He hasn't done anything to show me the current approach works, so I'd rather actually know if this guy is what we all expected, which was basically someone like Huberdeau, or if he is a bust. Repeating the same thing over and over is insanity. The Rangers are sure great at developing 3rd liners. He's not going anywhere at the moment. He'll be a Ranger next season, so what is the absolute worst thing that can happen if he is given all the opportunities?

This same thing that happens whenever a player leaves the Rangers that was supposed to be a star or finally be in the right spot for them in their career.

The Rangers have done this with all their forwards (and even some of their defensive picks), and in the end, what ends up happening is the best results often come when the team has given up on the player and moves them.

Prime example is Brett Howden. We'd all be dying to get a player with his skillset at this point (and playoff production), but we literally would have shipped him off for a dozen donuts. We were thrilled with getting what we got in return. Then Buchnevich was fantastic for the Rangers and went to St. Louis and is even better. Jimmy Vesey couldn't a get a job with a team after being with the Rangers, now he's back and was one of their most effective forwards across the board. Shouldn't even really bring up JT Miller, but we know the kind of player he is now. We all wanted Skjei gone and Carolina turns him into a legit top pairing player. Ryan Graves had to go to another team and have them tell him he needs to change his entire game if he wants to be something, does it, and then becomes a 2nd pairing guy. I can already see it happening with Schneider in the future unless things change.

So I would rather zig than zag because all we've done is zag with our development and we don't get to reap the benefits of it. On top of that, when Kakko was drafted, everyone, including the coach, would talk about he doesn't have to be the savior and the franchise doesn't fall on his shoulders. Same was done for Lafreniere. Maybe some expectations for the future are needed instead of this laissez faire approach where they just go about their role on the team given to them. Force the role onto them. These guys have been "the guy" every step of the way, so we don't treat them or develop them that way and you end up with what we got.

I putting Lafreniere out there on PP1 in Panarin's spot. I'm putting Kakko in the bumper and I'm letting it ride. The organization has gone with the kids gloves approach with both for way too long. You can't get better at something without working on it and then applying it.

This post really got me thinking about something that I’ve known inside but never really articulated externally.

The Rangers are a good organization when it comes to identifying talent. The problem they have is timing. We all know that they have this horrible habit of bringing in aging stars on their last legs, but they also have recently started to cut bait on young players at the wrong time.

Look at the Zib trade. How many other trades have we ever made like that? I’m not even talking about the results, I’m talking about the concept. We give up the aging, established player for a kid who has underwhelmed to date. We need to be looking for more trades like this.

Look at Goodrow. We need players like him, but we need them before they win the Cup for someone else and get paid. Those guys are valuable when they are cheap. They are otherwise net negatives in a cap world. Timing.

I kill Laf, and to a lesser extent Kakko, more than anyone. Drury better not dare trade them. Some smart team is sniffing around our mess and looking to exploit it. Timing. Do not sell low.

 

[haohmaru]

Hey, I never understood the hate for Howden. He was young and developing and the effort was always there. I would've kept the guy.

 

[Savant]

It's amazing how Tampa just pulls these random players out of their ass... Now add Perbix into that mix

on account of those stats, our system is set up to fail. Fox overrides it usually with his brain.

Tampa doesn’t pull players out of their ass. They give a shit about player development and their AHL team. They are a decade ahead of the Rangers in this regard

Carolina isnt exactly known for resigning guys once they approach/hit 30

We will see. He is very popular and that slot has been a revolving door for them. He’s been a slam dunk and after years on lousy teams he isn’t trying to leave either

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers making the ECF in 2020-21 was the worst thing to happen to the franchise. They played Pittsburgh and Carolina with back-up goalies. Every podcast. Cup or bust. It's nauseating.

The Rangers can not make this move because they are Cup or bust. The Rangers need this type of player because they lost to Jersey. The Rangers need to hire this type of coach because they are Cup or bust.

Cup or bust is such garbage. They are still one of the youngest teams in the league. It’s Cup or bust for Kreider/Zibanejad/Panarin/Trouba next year I’ll give you that. Because the teams long term outlook is good and they will always be a highly competitive team in the East with Igor & Fox. And I know Igor’s contract is up in 2 years, but I’m fine to deal with the future goalie situation when it’s actually on the front burner.

The Core 4 are on notice because Kreider and Trouba are extremely movable next year. 3 of the 4 no showed the playoffs. Pretty unacceptable for guys who have the most secure position on the team. Does not foster a good team culture, in my opinion.

I think Drury will hire Knoblauch or Sullivan and run it back with largely the same very good team next year. A couple veteran speed guys and Cuylle & Jones called up. The Kids get bigger roles mixed with the veterans. If they don’t go on a deep run next year, 1-2 of the big contracts get moved and the keys get handed over to the young core (with lots of playoff heartbreak already baked in.)

 

[Savant]

This post really got me thinking about something that I’ve known inside but never really articulated externally.

The Rangers are a good organization when it comes to identifying talent. The problem they have is timing. We all know that they have this horrible habit of bringing in aging stars on their last legs, but they also have recently started to cut bait on young players at the wrong time.

Look at the Zib trade. How many other trades have we ever made like that? I’m not even talking about the results, I’m talking about the concept. We give up the aging, established player for a kid who has underwhelmed to date. We need to be looking for more trades like this.

Look at Goodrow. We need players like him, but we need them before they win the Cup for someone else and get paid. Those guys are valuable when they are cheap. They are otherwise net negatives in a cap world. Timing.

I kill Laf, and to a lesser extent Kakko, more than anyone. Drury better not dare trade them. Some smart team is sniffing around our mess and looking to exploit it. Timing. Do not sell low.

It’s the big market curse. Everyone wants to play in New York but because of the CBA they can’t get there until their third or fourth contracts. But of course Dolan can’t resist the big names and he indulges this.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Panarin also isn’t waiving for Nashville


Adam Fox

Con: Isn’t Brian Leetch

Pro: Everything else



Very telling that no other NYR Dman is close to the this and they have three that were among the worst at it.

This is where the Rangers need to improve. Fox is the only one that isn’t terrible at this

Mikkola worse than Jack Johnson is impressive.

 

[Savant]

And the forwards



Rangers with 7 of the top 30 WORST and zero of the top 30 Best.

Eye test matches

 

[17futurecap]

And the forwards



Rangers with 7 of the top 30 WORST and zero of the top 30 Best.

Eye test matches

Tarasenko, Motte, Kane, and then Mikkola on defense making the worst lists is hilarious. Hell of a job by the Little League World Series Champ and pizza maker.