MrAlmost
Beer league hero.
- Jun 3, 2010
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Sullivan is not good. This fan base should know that. It would be the same thing to want Lindy Ruff.
Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Savant
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Of course, but we also just saw how that doesn’t work. Being hard to play against doesn’t matter if the players can’t skate
I mean, solely to be Devils advocate here, did they really have anyone better than Carter to throw out? Do we believe Crosby would have rather played the kids?
LaffyTaffy13
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- May 10, 2022
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Being hard to play against I dont think necessarily meant with goons/fighters.
I think it meant generally with good skaters who play a gritty greasy game. Like these guys are a pain in the ass to play against who we can get/resign/insert
1) Motte
2) Jesper Fast
3) Haula
4) Evan Rodrigues
5) Mikkola
6) cuylle
7) othmann
8) sykora
My guess is cuylle is on the opening night roster while othmann and sykora start in Hartford and if they really are showing out then get called up.
This is what id start the year with
I think for 4C you either grab Haula who can play up and down the lineup for 2 X 2 and if that doesnt get him then you go bjugstad 2 X 1.5. Basically just a place holder for bryce mcconnell barker who likely starts as a 4C then moves his way up.
Laff-Mika-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil-Fast
Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey
Cuylle-Haula-Motte
Kandre-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Mikkola-Schneider
Igor
Halak
Savant
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Don’t think Fast is coming back here, and doubt Rodrigues is leaving Colorado, especially with that rich and creamy LTIR money in the way there. I can’t stand Haula, but maybe that’s the point? I don’t think he is any good/was bad everywhere but NJ where he had great line mates; but would improve team speed I guess? I dunno.
My think here is there is going to be very low margin of error with the cap, so the last thing that I want to do is allocate dollars to the bottom six without solving the holes higher in the lineup first. I’m not over paying to be ambiguously tougher. If you are looking for an upside guy that you can get on a price it deal, Connor Brown (who is coming off injury) is probably a good place to start. Rest, it’s just hard for me to even try to project out.
I think 20-93-24 is a good start, we’ve seen it work and the analytics back it up. I’m not really married to anything else. I think new coach ideally gives Jones a shot because they badly need his skill set and his contract. I look at this roster and I think they are going to have to moving out players for guys that fill certain roles, even if they “lose” some hypothetical value. They need to use this off-season to save money, get better and moving the puck, get faster and then they can worry about toughness in bottom six; they aren’t going to be able to get good tough players for top six because it’s going to be cost prohibitive so they are going to have to get creative
pld459666
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Also, to be like Tkachuk and or Bennett, you have to be a bit of an asshole and I'm not sure Lafreniere is that sort of player.
Lord knows we need more of that type of player or three.
Rangers in 7
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Savant
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I’m not sure Lafreniere is any kind of player. I still have no idea what he does at an above average at the NHL level
LaffyTaffy13
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Kakko is a bonafide top 6 RW and we already know panarin and fast work, add chytil to that line and its sure to speed panarin up which is needed
McRanger92
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The Rangers don’t need big changes just the right changes. Love Fast to save Panarin & Vesey as a piece of an actual shutdown line
Kakko in Carolina or in that system would be an absolute menace.
We should be striving for htat.
We should be striving for htat.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
A few things since I was away.
1. I'm going to post a player's stats since he's become a pro.
GP G A P +/- PIM
53 5 7 12 9 20
82 7 13 20 23 24
79 9 34 43 12 47
That's K'Andre Miller. And people still think he stinks or want to trade him when there's a clear progression? Now comes the usual "yeah, but...." arguments. I'm sorry but if that isn't an improvement then what is? The entire team had a rough series. Can't use that. You don't trade a guy who isn't even in his physical peak yet and skates like he does. You take his skating out of the lineup and the Rangers D are sloths.
Larry was out to lunch (Eric Dolphy style) on that speculation. Is it because he doesn't smash like Pronger or Blake? Is it for another reason which I'm not going to bring up?
The "you have to give to get" trope doesn't work here. There is no fictional get. Nothing.
2. Trading Schneider on not even the third year of his ELC because he didn't put up 30 points? No.
3. Jesper Fast is not coming back. He's not a big market guy. Rangers burned that bridge negotiating like jack asses with him. He was snubbed.
4. Goodrow to Colorado please. They have a lot of UFAs and need bottom six help badly. More cap room with the Landenskog injury. No brainer.
5. Chychrun sucks. Injury prone. Rangers need to stop being humps and going for guys from losing organizations.
6. Once again should have signed Verhage and targeted both Joseph brothers, and taken a flyer on Tolveinen from the waiver wire. Why not? Dumb dumb moved and more "yeah, but...." arguments. Leshychyun? I hope he at least helps Hartford vs. Hershey. Useless.
1. I'm going to post a player's stats since he's become a pro.
GP G A P +/- PIM
53 5 7 12 9 20
82 7 13 20 23 24
79 9 34 43 12 47
That's K'Andre Miller. And people still think he stinks or want to trade him when there's a clear progression? Now comes the usual "yeah, but...." arguments. I'm sorry but if that isn't an improvement then what is? The entire team had a rough series. Can't use that. You don't trade a guy who isn't even in his physical peak yet and skates like he does. You take his skating out of the lineup and the Rangers D are sloths.
Larry was out to lunch (Eric Dolphy style) on that speculation. Is it because he doesn't smash like Pronger or Blake? Is it for another reason which I'm not going to bring up?
The "you have to give to get" trope doesn't work here. There is no fictional get. Nothing.
2. Trading Schneider on not even the third year of his ELC because he didn't put up 30 points? No.
3. Jesper Fast is not coming back. He's not a big market guy. Rangers burned that bridge negotiating like jack asses with him. He was snubbed.
4. Goodrow to Colorado please. They have a lot of UFAs and need bottom six help badly. More cap room with the Landenskog injury. No brainer.
5. Chychrun sucks. Injury prone. Rangers need to stop being humps and going for guys from losing organizations.
6. Once again should have signed Verhage and targeted both Joseph brothers, and taken a flyer on Tolveinen from the waiver wire. Why not? Dumb dumb moved and more "yeah, but...." arguments. Leshychyun? I hope he at least helps Hartford vs. Hershey. Useless.
Savant
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1. Miller had a rough series. Miller has a ton of upside. Both things are true. The issue is can they afford to pay him with the cap situation? Can they afford to pay him to lock into their current roster construction? Whatever the Rangers do, they are going to be robbing Peter to play Paul. The Rangers NEED more puck movers in the backline. They only have six (or 7) spots to do that. Fox isn’t going anywhere. Trouba isn’t movable. Schneider probably isn’t moving unless for an upgrade that they can’t afford (and they need his ELC). If you move Lindgren you are going to have other issues; especially if they can’t afford to re-sign Mikkola. So my question is - how are you slotting in these puck movers that you are probably going to have to get externally? Rangers are going to have to make some unpopular moves to solve obvious weaknesses. Do I want this to be Miller? No. Could I see it being Miller? I could. But if he is moved there needs to be a better plan.
2. See above. You can’t move Schneider unless you are getting another ELC guy with a different skill set. But until we know who the new coach is we don’t really know what specifically they are going to be looking for. Similar to Miller that he shouldn’t be untouchable, but he’s got an extra ELC year. That could matter.
3. Agree. And he’s going to get a raise.
4. If Colorado is using the LTIR bucks they are going to make a big splash. They aren’t going to go piece meal. They are going to be aiming way higher than Goodrow and they will take care of their own players who are actually good, like Rodrigues who was in a one year prove it deal and certainly proved it.
5. Agree. Not bailing Ottawa out there
6. 31 other teams made those mistakes too. Can’t get too mad. Just have to learn and be smarter
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
Miller is an RFA. No arb. They can bridge him. By the time he's due for a raise, Trouba is gone. There isn't a better plan. No one has given any ideas. PMDs are not that easy to find.
Mikkola is gone.
Next year you live with Jones on the third pair, or sign a borderline puck mover based on analytics. Maybe even Klingberg on a one year deal or Gustavson. That's for the analytics crew.
Colorado needs everything. Goodrow is not THE piece, but he's a piece. They're losing a lot of their support players. If it was up to me I'd send Panarin 50% and Goodrow their way for like a 2025 first, Foudy, and a scrap. However then reality returns.
My issue for #6 is that the Rangers are not smarter. We as fans see it. Even Verhage with expectations as a third line center blossoming into a second line center. The Rangers did well with Adam Graves this way back in the day, and to a lesser extent an older player in Grabner in more recent years.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
Hartford is now a team of douches and pests. I like it. Not all of them will be up next year however the next wave all have that trait.
Fast isn't coming back. See my posts. It's a shame because he's a playoff performer. See his 2015 and 2017 performances.
Is that because they have a real skills coach or Rod The Bod would look into his soul and force him to get up every day during the offseason 3:45 AM in Finland for mandatory 90 minute power skating drills?
Is that because they have a real skills coach or Rod The Bod would look into his soul and force him to get up every day during the offseason 3:45 AM in Finland for mandatory 90 minute power skating drills?
Savant
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Both. I’ve said this before but Kakko and Svechnikov were very similar before coming into the NHL. Carolina did a lot to develop Svechnikov’s shot. It was always hard but Rod and staff made it a weapon.
Savant
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Trouba has a NMC. I don’t think he is gone so easily. And the contract is bad. Even with bridge he’s got value and Rangers aren’t going to be able to match an offer sheet. Might be something to look into. You can trade Miller, in a hockey trade, for a better puck mover that is not going to be as risky in the second pair compared a guy like Jones who made be 3rd pair only; but also kind of worries me that Jones/Schneider wasn’t really a thing. Ever. Not sure that is found so easily. And the Rangers really need Jones to work out too.
Teams that get the LTIR manna from heaven, they tend to spend it as a chunk. They don’t break it up. They use it on a quarter, not in five nickels. They will re-sign Rodrigues first. Then they aren’t going to spend the majority of the leftovers on Goodrow. That would be really silly and Sakic isn’t falling for that.
I think there’s a chance to send Panarin to Anaheim. They are stuck with Fantilli and they need wings. It’s still California and and Strome is there; plus they wouldn’t have to deal from their core. That might be something if Verbeek bites
Carolina don't appear to have a 'skills coach' in the same way we do, but they do have Sergei Samsonov as their forwards development coach, who is at least a former first round pick.
Having said that, they also have Peter Harrold and Jason Muzzatti as their D and goalie dev coaches, and both those guys could be described as 'journeymen' at best and on a similar level to Ortmeyer and Glass (although at least all the Caroilina dev coaches played in the position they are listed against)
pld459666
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haohmaru
boomshakalaka
IronBloodedLion
Registered User
I thought the same thing with the Kings in the last round. I kept thinking “boy, Kakko would be incredible on that team.”
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
I keep looking at Cap Friendly for different paths at an $83.5M cap hit. There really isn’t much to do. Drury is likely going to rely on Kakko and Lafreniere moving up the lineup and backfilling with Othmann/Cuylle.
Trade Grubbe for a pick. Maybe like a 5th. Maybe a rebuilding team with a lot of picks would rather stagger their prospects a bit better. Arizona, San Jose, Columbus. Minnesota needs cheap contracts.
Trade Hajek if anyone will take him otherwise don’t qualify him.
Laf 2x2.2
Miller 3x3.85
Jones 1x.885 (squeezed)
They can sign Motte for like 3x1.3. Assume Brodzinski and Harpur are the scratches.
A goalie will need to be signed for like $850,000. Maybe up to $1M. Find a reclamation project with Garand waiting in the wings in the event of a total failure. Maybe Nedeljkovic. A guy with talent who has struggled. 1 year $850K. Let Allaire fix him. Or bring Halak back if they like him.
They can use Cuylle with Motte and Goodrow on the 4th line. Or they can sign a guy like Austin Watson probably for under $1M. I think they’ll bring in a good forechecker in that price range on the 4th line and allow Cuylle to start in HFD. Could be a 4C or a 4RW, depending on whether they keep Goodrow and move him around the lineup. I could see Goodrow playing up the lineup with Panarin and Chytil as the responsible player with them.
They could buy out or trade Goodrow. But I don’t think they want to and every time I did, I was left underwhelmed. It’s not like freeing up that cap space really enables them to do much. They could sign a 4th line C for cheaper than his $3.6M, but why do that. Who are they signing with that hit? Have you looked at the UFA list? It’s uninspiring. I guess it could be used to lock into better value deals with Miller or Laf.
I was reading about LTIR because I was curious if they signed Kane and he had surgery how that would work. The Rangers don’t get free cap space for LTIR. It just allows them to spend over the cap. Teams typically want to spend up to the cap before signing the player because their LTIR money increases. Kane signs 1 year $4M to have his hip surgery and join the Rangers after the deadline. He’s their acquisition. The Rangers had $4M of cap space to play around with during the season. None of that space accrues at the deadline. They can add a depth piece or two before activating Kane.
Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - Goodrow
Kreider - Trocheck - Othmann
Motte - 4C UFA - Vesey
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Jones - Schneider
Harpur/Brodzinski
Shesterkin
Nedeljkovic
LTIR: Kane
Barring something crazy, like one of the 5 waiving their NMC, I think they run it back like this with a new coach. Pretty much have to. Give Kakko and Laf some PP time. With Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin - there’s really only one PP spot open. I guess Kakko has earned it to start.
Only 3 draft picks and no cap space. Will probably be a boring off-season.
Trade Grubbe for a pick. Maybe like a 5th. Maybe a rebuilding team with a lot of picks would rather stagger their prospects a bit better. Arizona, San Jose, Columbus. Minnesota needs cheap contracts.
Trade Hajek if anyone will take him otherwise don’t qualify him.
Laf 2x2.2
Miller 3x3.85
Jones 1x.885 (squeezed)
They can sign Motte for like 3x1.3. Assume Brodzinski and Harpur are the scratches.
A goalie will need to be signed for like $850,000. Maybe up to $1M. Find a reclamation project with Garand waiting in the wings in the event of a total failure. Maybe Nedeljkovic. A guy with talent who has struggled. 1 year $850K. Let Allaire fix him. Or bring Halak back if they like him.
They can use Cuylle with Motte and Goodrow on the 4th line. Or they can sign a guy like Austin Watson probably for under $1M. I think they’ll bring in a good forechecker in that price range on the 4th line and allow Cuylle to start in HFD. Could be a 4C or a 4RW, depending on whether they keep Goodrow and move him around the lineup. I could see Goodrow playing up the lineup with Panarin and Chytil as the responsible player with them.
They could buy out or trade Goodrow. But I don’t think they want to and every time I did, I was left underwhelmed. It’s not like freeing up that cap space really enables them to do much. They could sign a 4th line C for cheaper than his $3.6M, but why do that. Who are they signing with that hit? Have you looked at the UFA list? It’s uninspiring. I guess it could be used to lock into better value deals with Miller or Laf.
I was reading about LTIR because I was curious if they signed Kane and he had surgery how that would work. The Rangers don’t get free cap space for LTIR. It just allows them to spend over the cap. Teams typically want to spend up to the cap before signing the player because their LTIR money increases. Kane signs 1 year $4M to have his hip surgery and join the Rangers after the deadline. He’s their acquisition. The Rangers had $4M of cap space to play around with during the season. None of that space accrues at the deadline. They can add a depth piece or two before activating Kane.
Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - Goodrow
Kreider - Trocheck - Othmann
Motte - 4C UFA - Vesey
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Jones - Schneider
Harpur/Brodzinski
Shesterkin
Nedeljkovic
LTIR: Kane
Barring something crazy, like one of the 5 waiving their NMC, I think they run it back like this with a new coach. Pretty much have to. Give Kakko and Laf some PP time. With Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin - there’s really only one PP spot open. I guess Kakko has earned it to start.
Only 3 draft picks and no cap space. Will probably be a boring off-season.
McRanger92
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Kakko, Chytil and Lafreniere are hard to play against, simply play them more. And Othmann will probably ready with a half season in the AHL. If they want a face puncher who can play, Cuylle is right there.
The "hard to play against" target should be Jesper Fast. Move Goodrow and bring him home.
NYR Viper
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Part of building an identity is instilling the same thing in Hartford so that when you call up players, they fit in with the style you want to play. You can see the style in Hartford post-deadline. Lockwood and Blidh are the depth guys they should be looking hard at re-signing. Both are suitable 4th line fill ins.
McRanger92
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He played that game against Tampa Bay in the ECF last year. Gave Hedman an elbow to the head and fought Stamkos at the end of game 6. Rangers should be fostering that style of play in him, not stunting it.
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