Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[bhamill]

My point is more about not paying a goalie a significant % of your cap space when it's been proven that building from the goal out hasn't worked.

That has NOT been proven though... giving examples where teams have done well WITHOUT doing that doesn't mean that doesn't work... Billy Smith, Grant Fuhr, Mike Richter, Vasilevski, Broduer... come on. Having top flight goaltending is usually a key ingredient. You can argue it's not necessary if you happen to have a lesser guy go on a heater, but any way you slice it, if your goaltending is bad in the playoffs, you will likely go down hard.

 

[Profet]

That has NOT been proven though... giving examples where teams have done well WITHOUT doing that doesn't mean that doesn't work... Billy Smith, Grant Fuhr, Mike Richter, Vasilevski, Broduer... come on. Having top flight goaltending is usually a key ingredient. You can argue it's not necessary if you happen to have a lesser guy go on a heater, but any way you slice it, if your goaltending is bad in the playoffs, you will likely go down hard.

Put those salaries as percentages of total team salary.

No one is saying that a good goalie doesn't help. But building a salary cap compliant team around an expensive goalie doesn't seem to be a great plan for success.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That has NOT been proven though... giving examples where teams have done well WITHOUT doing that doesn't mean that doesn't work... Billy Smith, Grant Fuhr, Mike Richter, Vasilevski, Broduer... come on. Having top flight goaltending is usually a key ingredient. You can argue it's not necessary if you happen to have a lesser guy go on a heater, but any way you slice it, if your goaltending is bad in the playoffs, you will likely go down hard.

All of those examples are bogus. Sure each of those guys were great players, but everyone of them was a luxury or a complementary piece on stacked teams. Even Domenik Hasek needed to join an All Star team to finally win a Cup.

Of course they were big parts of the team, but nobody on earth is thinking the Oilers don't win at least 3 Cups without Fuhr. Hell they won with Andy Moog & Bill Ranford.

 

[bhamill]

Put those salaries as percentages of total team salary.

No one is saying that a good goalie doesn't help. But building a salary cap compliant team around an expensive goalie doesn't seem to be a great plan for success.

That is WAY too much work. Hahaha. Point being from a team building aspect, building from the goal out HAS been a very effective method. Of course you have to balance cost and benefit. Like with any player.

All of those examples are bogus. Sure each of those guys were great players, but everyone of them was a luxury or a complementary piece on stacked teams. Even Domenik Hasek needed to join an All Star team to finally win a Cup.

Of course they were big parts of the team, but nobody on earth is thinking the Oilers don't win at least 3 Cups without Fuhr. Hell they won with Andy Moog & Bill Ranford.

No the examples are legit. You just don't like them because they counter your opinion. I didn't say any won it on their own, just that they were a very important part of the mix. You speculating teams would have won anyway is just that: speculation. You can't actually demonstrate that it is the case.
IMO Devils would never have won without Broduer, Lightning wouldn't have won without Vas, but of course I can't demonstrate that either. hahaha.

 

[duhmetreE]

I said he would almost undoubtedly get more than we could afford but I would still offer him the maximum that we could afford before I would even talk to another UFA. Maybe he wants to by in NYC. Maybe he wants to sign where his brother is. In all likelihood, it’s a 99.9% chance he says no way, but I’d still go after him first.

It'd be like Buchnevich never happened

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Frank mentioned Trent Frederic might not receive a qualifying offer from Boston.

Bit surprising after the season he just had.

Not that I think he'd repeat it, but its a tough move to let go of a guy for nothing after a career season.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That is WAY too much work. Hahaha. Point being from a team building aspect, building from the goal out HAS been a very effective method. Of course you have to balance cost and benefit. Like with any player.


No the examples are legit. You just don't like them because they counter your opinion. I didn't say any won it on their own, just that they were a very important part of the mix. You speculating teams would have won anyway is just that: speculation. You can't actually demonstrate that it is the case.
IMO Devils would never have won without Broduer, Lightning wouldn't have won without Vas, but of course I can't demonstrate that either. hahaha.

None of those teams had to deal with the Cap except for Tampa who circumvented it. All my original point was illustrating is that it really doesn't make sense to dedicate a significant percentage of the cap to a high end goalie when the playoffs are such a crap shoot.

The example I used was not speculation by the way...the Oilers did actually win 2 of those Cups where Fuhr was not the guy or when he spilt time with Moog.

 

[bhamill]

None of those teams had to deal with the Cap. All my original point was illustrating is that it really doesn't make sense to dedicate a significant percentage of the cap to a high end goalie when the playoffs are such a crap shoot.

The example I used was no speculation by the way...the Oilers did actually win 2 of those Cups where Fuhr was not the guy or when he spilt time with Moog.

Like I said: cost and benefit like any other player. And with a guy like Shesty, the benefit could be huge. Panarin at 11+ ain't helping much in a Cup run... The point being while you can't dedicate TOO much to any one player (including goalie), goal is not a place to skimp. And building from the goal out DOES work. Again you just need to weigh it all out.
And yes, TBL had to deal with cap...

 

[Boris Zubov]

Like I said: cost and benefit like any other player. And with a guy like Shesty, the benefit could be huge. Panarin at 11+ ain't helping much in a Cup run... The point being while you can't dedicate TOO much to any one player (including goalie), goal is not a place to skimp. And building from the goal out DOES work. Again you just need to weigh it all out.
And yes, TBL had to deal with cap...

I generally agree with your premise, but name one example of a team that was centered around their goalie & won it all in the cap era. Maybe Tim Thomas?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kane was a nice story, sold some jerseys but time to move on. He doesn't fit with what we need. I look at what Barbashev has added to Vegas and it looks like that would have been a nice fit instead this year.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Kane was a nice story, sold some jerseys but time to move on. He doesn't fit with what we need. I look at what Barbashev has added to Vegas and it looks like that would have been a nice fit instead this year.

Barbashev is the guy Drury should've targeted when he gave away Buch to them.

 

[bhamill]

I generally agree with your premise, but name one example of a team that was centered around their goalie & won it all in the cap era. Maybe Tim Thomas?

"Centered around" is a vague term for me, but I DO think we generally agree, including about not dedicating OVERmuch cap to goalie.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

All of those examples are bogus. Sure each of those guys were great players, but everyone of them was a luxury or a complementary piece on stacked teams. Even Domenik Hasek needed to join an All Star team to finally win a Cup.

Of course they were big parts of the team, but nobody on earth is thinking the Oilers don't win at least 3 Cups without Fuhr. Hell they won with Andy Moog & Bill Ranford.

Dominic Hasek drug the shittiest team ever built in Buffalo to the finals. Carey Price just did the same, Bobrovsky outgoalied Boston and Carolina.. Our team has a great goalie plus high end players, the will to win is all thats missing.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Dominic Hasek drug the shittiest team ever built in Buffalo to the finals. Carey Price just did the same, Bobrovsky outgoalied Boston and Carolina.. Our team has a great goalie plus high end players, the will to win is all thats missing.

I don't want to beat this dead horse, but yes Hank got us to the Finals. The run was great, but the lasting feeling of it is still emptiness because we never won it all with him.

Price drug a Habs team in a Covid Cup setting with an all Canadian Division then past a Vegas team that shit the bed when another high paid goalie literally gave the series away in Game 3.

Is a goalie important, absolutely. Is a high paid star goalie absolutely necessary to win the Cup? That's where I'm skeptical. Too bad Bob had too much time to cool off because he would've totally been the outlier here had Florida won it all.

 

[GAGLine]

Rangers should keep Goodrow if it costs assets to move him. Buy him out if someone offer sheets Miller (they won’t).

Panarin is the guy the need to move heaven and earth to get rid of.

If we're buying out Goodrow, we'll probably have to make the decision at the end of this month. Our only arb-eligible RFAs are Hajek, Paju, Scanlin and Zech. I doubt any of them will elect arbitration. Paju is already going back home. Without arbitration cases, we won't have the 2nd buyout window.

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

The site is called allhabs and they are suggesting trading for a French-Canadian, former 1st overall pick. Of course it's BS.

 

[Profet]

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

I dunno... You know the saying, where there is smoke there is...

and a lot of smoke is def coming from the Quebec today.

 

[haohmaru]

Did anyone catch this from Vince:

"Clearly, Fast remains a popular player among many Rangers' fans.
Here's something I learned while talking to a source recently: The Rangers and then-GM Jeff Gorton actually thought they had a two-year, $4 million deal in place with Fast back in 2020. But when the Carolina Hurricanes agreed to give him a third year at that same average annual value, he bolted before New York had a chance to match or counter."

That puts quite a different spin on things, no?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't want to beat this dead horse, but yes Hank got us to the Finals. The run was great, but the lasting feeling of it is still emptiness because we never won it all with him.

Price drug a Habs team in a Covid Cup setting with an all Canadian Division then past a Vegas team that shit the bed when another high paid goalie literally gave the series away in Game 3.

Is a goalie important, absolutely. Is a high paid star goalie absolutely necessary to win the Cup? That's where I'm skeptical. Too bad Bob had too much time to cool off because he would've totally been the outlier here had Florida won it all.

You could say the same about any position, having star players is a good thing. Teams have won with underwhelming defense and undewelming forwards. I dont know many teams in the league that wouldn't wanna be in our position having one of the best goalies in the league. Toronto has been a goalie away for 5 years now tell me they wouldn't take him if they could afford him, Edmonton too.

I dunno... You know the saying, where there is smoke there is...

and a lot of smoke is def coming from the Quebec today.

All habs is your news source? Some kid in a basement eating doritos.

 

[Synergy27]

Did anyone catch this from Vince:

"Clearly, Fast remains a popular player among many Rangers' fans.
Here's something I learned while talking to a source recently: The Rangers and then-GM Jeff Gorton actually thought they had a two-year, $4 million deal in place with Fast back in 2020. But when the Carolina Hurricanes agreed to give him a third year at that same average annual value, he bolted before New York had a chance to match or counter."

That puts quite a different spin on things, no?

I may be misremembering, but didn’t he also essentially call the team lazy after he signed there as well? I can’t see Jesper coming back. He was the canary in the Panarin is a cancer coal mine.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Don't want Jesper back. Gotta move on.

Shesterkin has 2 years left and people are running him out of town. We don't have to sign him yet. When it's time to pay him, let's see where he is in his career. Cap should be up to about $92M that offseason. Garand will be an RFA and hopefully have developed. A lot of variables to start worrying about that now.

Frederic would be a great player to trade Goodrow out and use that money to sign him long term. I doubt we will get him. I see the Bruins trading Forbort or Reilly and resigning Clifton and Frederic. If Bergeron and Kreji come back it will be for league minimum.

Or we can just develop our own Frederic.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[bernmeister]

Same here. Was never big on Kravtsov. I wanted Wahlstrom or Dobson.

responding to your classic avatar:

hamina
hamina
hamina
hamina

 

[EpicDing]

All habs is your news source? Some kid in a basement eating doritos.

Pretty sure that was a wildfire/smoke in NY joke.

 

[Shadowtron]

responding to your classic avatar:

hamina
hamina
hamina
hamina

Well played, wisenheimer! Lol!!

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t think this is the route Drury takes but Dubois is the kind of big body center who plays with an edge that it would be worthwhile to trade Lafreniere for. Still only 24. They can always play him or Chytil on the wing, you can never have enough guys who can play C. He’s had a history with Panarin(if that matters to anyone) but will also outlast him and he a part of the young core going forward. It’s at least worth exploring imo.