Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[I Eat Crow]

I watched 2014 highlights again tonight, and came to a few conclusions.

-That team was fast. They moved the puck fast and were deadly on the transition. That's where AV really helped them initially. If they got the puck back in their own end, it was out of there in the blink of an eye. Too much p***yfooting in their own end under Quinn and Gallant the last few years.

-Carl Hagelin needs to be in the running for most underrated Ranger in the past 30 years. Guy was a buzzsaw and a forechecking demon that had some soft hands and scored some massive goals for this team. The Rangers really should have pushed for a 1st rounder instead of the Etem/2nd rounder package they got back for him. Not keeping him and seeing him go to Pittsburgh a year later and winning back to back Cups guts me. Retaining both Staal and Girardi over Hagelin and Stralman really doesn't get enough heat as a catastrophically major blunder.

-Extending off of this, the Rangers really need to do a better job drafting in the middle and late rounds. Who was the last homegrown player taken beyond the 1st round that cemented a place on this roster? Was it really Carl Hagelin? They need to find new Carl Hagelins to be the motors and heatbeats. Berard and Sykora could be exactly this. Leevi Altonen was the right idea but just didn't pan out. Next couple of drafts, I just want guys that can skate well and forecheck well if they're forwards or move the puck quickly if they're defensemen in the middle and late rounds. Top end talent will always be available via trade and UFA. The reason the Rangers haven't won it all is because they can't develop their own depth. Look at the rosters that won Cups in the last 10 years. The majority of them developed their own cores and their role players were all mostly homegrown too.

 

[Savant]

I watched 2014 highlights again tonight, and came to a few conclusions.



-Carl Hagelin needs to be in the running for most underrated Ranger in the past 30 years. Guy was a buzzsaw and a forechecking demon that had some soft hands and scored some massive goals for this team. The Rangers really should have pushed for a 1st rounder instead of the Etem/2nd rounder package they got back for him. Not keeping him and seeing him go to Pittsburgh a year later and winning back to back Cups guts me. Retaining both Staal and Girardi over Hagelin and Stralman really doesn't get enough heat as a catastrophically major blunder.

i wanted to just trade Hagelin for Kyle Palmieri. I hated that Etem deal.

Rangers neglecting Hartford especially during the Gernander years crippled their player development and it still hasn’t recovered

 

[Savant]

I said he would almost undoubtedly get more than we could afford but I would still offer him the maximum that we could afford before I would even talk to another UFA. Maybe he wants to by in NYC. Maybe he wants to sign where his brother is. In all likelihood, it’s a 99.9% chance he says no way, but I’d still go after him first.

It’s not happening

 

[mike14]

-Extending off of this, the Rangers really need to do a better job drafting in the middle and late rounds. Who was the last homegrown player taken beyond the 1st round that cemented a place on this roster? Was it really Carl Hagelin?

the weird thing is that for a little while, finding useful players outside the first round was the thing we did ok at (now it's finding D-men I guess...)
Barron would be the last homegrown player in a later round, but he wasn't really here that long.
Shesty was a 4th rounder
Buch, Duclair and Graves in 2013
Fast in 2010
Then before that you had guys like Hagelin, Pyatt, Callahan, Zidlicky and obviously Hank

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Because then we’ll be testing him out and making room for him and catering to his needs. He’s another teams legend for us he a washed up old guy. I’ve seen this numerous times since the 70s.

Regardless of family needs you seen it since when, if an LTIRed player (with the caveat that he'd be making very little) who is a legend to whatever teammates he will have, it's somehow a problem, well you've got much bigger problems... You could realistically sign a bottom six player who has more of an impact than he would offensively, and managed to reduce his minutes for a few months. I've seen that happen almost every year, with every winning team think since the 90s.

 

[n8]

-Extending off of this, the Rangers really need to do a better job drafting in the middle and late rounds. Who was the last homegrown player taken beyond the 1st round that cemented a place on this roster? Was it really Carl Hagelin? They need to find new Carl Hagelins to be the motors and heatbeats. Berard and Sykora could be exactly this. Leevi Altonen was the right idea but just didn't pan out. Next couple of drafts, I just want guys that can skate well and forecheck well if they're forwards or move the puck quickly if they're defensemen in the middle and late rounds. Top end talent will always be available via trade and UFA. The reason the Rangers haven't won it all is because they can't develop their own depth. Look at the rosters that won Cups in the last 10 years. The majority of them developed their own cores and their role players were all mostly homegrown too.

Off the top of my head, Shesterkin? Buchnevich? Fast? Stepan? To your point, the list is quite damn short for like 15 years worth of drafting.

 

[zukeisgone]

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

 

[Vitto79]

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

There’s alot of BS sites and that is one of them
Basically avoid anything Facebook for example

 

[Leonardo87]

Trading Laf to Montreal and him breaking out, would be the most Rangers thing ever.

 

[Machinehead]

We got through these constant cycles of fast, skill teams winning the Cup and everyone saying "let's tank because drafting Hall of Famers is the only way to win" and then big teams win and everyone says "trade all of our good players because you have to beat your way to the Stanley Cup!"

If only there were some way to assess Cup winners that actually showed correlation over multiple years.

Oh wait it's the xGF% rank of every Cup winner since we're tracking xGF%.

2008 - 2nd
2009 - 13th
2010 - 1st
2011 - 16th
2012 - 6th
2013 - 4th
2014 - 4th
2015 - 18th
2016 - 1st
2017 - 5th
2018 - 24th
2019 - 4th
2020 - 2nd
2021 - 9th
2022 - 8th
2023 - 7th or 10th (let's say 10th because they're up 2-0)

Average rank - 7.8

Rangers average rank over the same years - 16.5

No, that's it. That seems like it. Play good at even strength. We don't.

There's one huge exception on here and I don't feel like dissecting it. A bad team won the Cup once. 2018 Caps are shit. 1 out of 16. I think we should try to be like the other 15.

 

[Hitch16]

Trading Laf to Montreal and him breaking out, would be the most Rangers thing ever.

It would be revenge for the McDonagh trade.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

Complete BS.

 

[Synergy27]

We got through these constant cycles of fast, skill teams winning the Cup and everyone saying "let's tank because drafting Hall of Famers is the only way to win" and then big teams win and everyone says "trade all of our good players because you have to beat your way to the Stanley Cup!"

If only there were some way to assess Cup winners that actually showed correlation over multiple years.

Oh wait it's the xGF% rank of every Cup winner since we're tracking xGF%.

2008 - 2nd
2009 - 13th
2010 - 1st
2011 - 16th
2012 - 6th
2013 - 4th
2014 - 4th
2015 - 18th
2016 - 1st
2017 - 5th
2018 - 24th
2019 - 4th
2020 - 2nd
2021 - 9th
2022 - 8th
2023 - 7th or 10th (let's say 10th because they're up 2-0)

Average rank - 7.8

Rangers average rank over the same years - 16.5

No, that's it. That seems like it. Play good at even strength. We don't.

There's one huge exception on here and I don't feel like dissecting it. A bad team won the Cup once. 2018 Caps are shit. 1 out of 16. I think we should try to be like the other 15.

This is fine. And true. But now tell me “how”.

xGF% just tells you that your team is likely to score more goals than the other team, aka that they are better at hockey. It doesn’t tell you why or how though.

I think the diagnosis for why the Rangers are bad at it is pretty clear, but there are many ways to address the problem.

 

[bernmeister]

Is Alexis Lafrenière about to be traded to a Canadian team?

The situation of Alexis Lafrenière has been making a lot of headlines for several months, as his name circulates in various potential trade rumors

www.allhabs.com

is this a bs site?

bs or not, let's judge content on its merit

article
-- suggests, per bern, Canadian teams have mo interest, at least at present, b'c good marketing opportunities
-- specifies VAN, due to connection of former agent being a 'nuck exec, as 'oushing hard' for LAF

LAF will continue to succeed w/kid line and giving them mo->max mins will up his production/value.
Whether we keep that production depends on how much value is on the table.

LaF for MIN of Habs 2023 2nd, RD Barron. + lesser future mid picks

Not sure VAN can match that at present
and again
no vets

 

[Machinehead]

This is fine. And true. But now tell me “how”.

xGF% just tells you that your team is likely to score more goals than the other team, aka that they are better at hockey. It doesn’t tell you why or how though.

I think the diagnosis for why the Rangers are bad at it is pretty clear, but there are many ways to address the problem.

There being multiple ways to be good is the point, and that we shouldn't model ourselves after every flavor of June that comes along.

 

[duhmetreE]

I'd put Laffy and Kakko up there with Shesty, KAM and Fox as untouchables.

* -Unless we're getting McDavid back.

 

[CLW]

There being multiple ways to be good is the point, and that we shouldn't model ourselves after every flavor of June that comes along.

Being reactive instead of proactive is the NYR FO MO.

 

[Machinehead]

I watched 2014 highlights again tonight, and came to a few conclusions.

-That team was fast. They moved the puck fast and were deadly on the transition. That's where AV really helped them initially. If they got the puck back in their own end, it was out of there in the blink of an eye. Too much p***yfooting in their own end under Quinn and Gallant the last few years.

-Carl Hagelin needs to be in the running for most underrated Ranger in the past 30 years. Guy was a buzzsaw and a forechecking demon that had some soft hands and scored some massive goals for this team. The Rangers really should have pushed for a 1st rounder instead of the Etem/2nd rounder package they got back for him. Not keeping him and seeing him go to Pittsburgh a year later and winning back to back Cups guts me. Retaining both Staal and Girardi over Hagelin and Stralman really doesn't get enough heat as a catastrophically major blunder.

-Extending off of this, the Rangers really need to do a better job drafting in the middle and late rounds. Who was the last homegrown player taken beyond the 1st round that cemented a place on this roster? Was it really Carl Hagelin? They need to find new Carl Hagelins to be the motors and heatbeats. Berard and Sykora could be exactly this. Leevi Altonen was the right idea but just didn't pan out. Next couple of drafts, I just want guys that can skate well and forecheck well if they're forwards or move the puck quickly if they're defensemen in the middle and late rounds. Top end talent will always be available via trade and UFA. The reason the Rangers haven't won it all is because they can't develop their own depth. Look at the rosters that won Cups in the last 10 years. The majority of them developed their own cores and their role players were all mostly homegrown too.

Jesper Fast to answer your question and that was a long time ago now.

 

[LOFIN]

I'd put Laffy and Kakko up there with Shesty, KAM and Fox as untouchables.

* -Unless we're getting McDavid back.

No player in this team should be untouchable besides Fox. Kakko and Laf are untradeable, because you are not getting better by trading them at this point.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd put Laffy and Kakko up there with Shesty, KAM and Fox as untouchables.

* -Unless we're getting McDavid back.

I'll say in terms of guys I'm open to moving, they are at the bottom

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'd put Laffy and Kakko up there with Shesty, KAM and Fox as untouchables.

* -Unless we're getting McDavid back.

After watching Vegas waltz to a Cup with a 5th string goalie, keeping Shesty after his deal is up isn't a huge priority, IMO.

 

[surlysailor]

bs or not, let's judge content on its merit

article
-- suggests, per bern, Canadian teams have mo interest, at least at present, b'c good marketing opportunities
-- specifies VAN, due to connection of former agent being a 'nuck exec, as 'oushing hard' for LAF

LAF will continue to succeed w/kid line and giving them mo->max mins will up his production/value.
Whether we keep that production depends on how much value is on the table.

LaF for MIN of Habs 2023 2nd, RD Barron. + lesser future mid picks

Not sure VAN can match that at present
and again
no vets

That is a brutal return for laf. Rhd the one position nyr don’t need. Only a 2nd round pick for a former 1st overall and a low round pick. If I’m nyr I’m not giving him up for less than ‘24 top 5-10 protected first, Owen beck, & something else. Barron is a nice player but one of the last things nyr need.I think van has more value, say 11th overall, and a pick of prospect from ratu, or peterson. Then a player like Podkolzin or Joshua, & garland @ 50% since he has no value around the league but van needs to move cap. Nyr can add to make the overall value work.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There being multiple ways to be good is the point, and that we shouldn't model ourselves after every flavor of June that comes along.

This is true, but there are some ways which are more reliable than others.

 

[2014nyr]

bs or not, let's judge content on its merit

article
-- suggests, per bern, Canadian teams have mo interest, at least at present, b'c good marketing opportunities
-- specifies VAN, due to connection of former agent being a 'nuck exec, as 'oushing hard' for LAF

LAF will continue to succeed w/kid line and giving them mo->max mins will up his production/value.
Whether we keep that production depends on how much value is on the table.

LaF for MIN of Habs 2023 2nd, RD Barron. + lesser future mid picks

Not sure VAN can match that at present
and again
no vets

nm

 

[duhmetreE]

After watching Vegas waltz to a Cup with a 5th string goalie, keeping Shesty after his deal is up isn't a huge priority, IMO.

For every Vegas, there's an Edmonton or Toronto. We know where we would end up.

I also wouldn't call Hill a 5th string. His career numbers are relatively strong. He was a 3rd round pick, still only 27... but what I will say, if we do get another goalie, he needs to be big.