Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

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But he will help the team create offense and have and control the puck. That's also important.

I'm not sure if we need another playmaker that desperately, but I'd agree that Bread and Kakko are not enough.

I would add that any puck control he brings, will be negated by his give-aways and lack of backchecking, or lack of physical strength to be an effective back-ckecker.

Panarin is one one-dimensional player enough.
 
Bro's, the weirdest part is were talking about a 35 year old, damaged ass hip Patrick Kane, as if he's f***ing 25 and certain to come back in top form from surgery.

Good hip or not, the dude will not help us be more physial, or endure more physicality in the POs.
Endure what physicality?

We took the fewest hits in the playoffs en route to getting embarrassed.
 
I think the idea of this, although I really think we see Othmann in the AHL to start the year and a vet lower cap hit. They should want some sort of depth to start the year there. Imagine if they went Kaako, Othmann, Vesey and Motte on the right side and Othmann shows he isn't quite ready and Kaako goes out with an injury.

Sign Kane, place him on LTIR.

See what guys like:
Nyquist
Dadonov
Foligno
Brown
Kerfoot
Sundqvist
Engvall
Fast
Sheary
Bjugstad
Heinen
Nieto

There are going to be guys who get squeezed this off-season and who will need to decide whether an extra $100-200k is worth it to play for a basement team. The Rangers should be able to add a couple of depth pieces who can help at lower cap hits
I understand it would be an injury or 2 from a lot of AHL players in the lineup, but again thats how guys get shots and feel its worth being in the Org. Also, that's how you sometimes find your own Bunting or the like, which is always better than signing one from another team.

I think they should look into the tier of players just below that. Guys like Michael Carcone, Joel Kiviranta, Zach Sanford, Vinnie Hinostroza, etc.. They won't block anyone and they work better as 13th forwards if someone in the Org proves to be worth keeping in the lineup. Also, cheaper.

It would be a waste of cap to trade Goodrow only to immediately make the same mistake and give someone else's good bottom 6 player that money instead of developing our own or using that cap space to maybe grab a better player. Like Keller mentioned before.
 
Exactly. Tells you all you need to know. Our players didn't even go where it gets dirty.
That can't be true because we were also doing plenty of hitting.

We threw 29.1 hits per game in the playoffs. Vegas has come in at 31.7.

It's those 1.6 hits that are really wearing down their opposition.
 
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The Rangers would then have to make moves to fit him under the cap. The LTIR trick really only works if he sits until the playoffs.
I thought it was proportional. For instance if he signed for 2mil and missed 3/4 of the season you only need 500K in cap space to reactivate.
 
Patrick Kane, on one leg, had 6 points in 7 playoff games. He wasn't the reason the team didn't move on...

Certainly didn't help much either, once the Debs put the foot on the gas, he was in the rear-view mirrow most of the time. Also 4 of those pts came in the first two blowouts. This is just useless aging UFA all over again. That's my piece.

That can't be true because we were also doing plenty of hitting.

We threw 29.1 hits per game in the playoffs. Vegas has come in at 31.7.

It's those 1.6 hits that are really wearing down their opposition.

Well not those 1.6, but the ones we didn't take do. Hitting goes both ways to a certain degree, dishing out comes at a cost.

Let's stay with your original point, NYR were the least hit team for their time in the PO, imo that says we were little bitches, passed it early and often as to not get hit and many other scenarios.
 
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Among forwards at 5v5, Kakko was 3rd in TOI and Lafreniere was 5th. They comfortably played top six roles this past year.

At this point, it's more so they're just not top six players than it is not getting enough minutes.

I don't really see a path forward for this team as far as contention unless they just get a lot better.
They didn't get enough minutes with linemates who were not also young players also trying to find their NHL games, we are "developing" them in a really "odd" manner. They also didn't get power play minutes. I understand the team's situation, but the confidence a player gets by being able to add to their totals on the powerplay, and from being given that responsibility, shouldn't be discounted. Maybe you grip your stick a little less tight, knowing you're contributing more. You breathe easier, you relax, and it has a cascading effect on the rest of your game. Dominoes, in a good way. Pretty much very other team develops high picks this way. We sit here saying "they just aren't good" because they were "bad" picks somehow, that EVERY team would have made, when an OBVIOUS difference between other teams high picks and ours is the usage and responsibility and leash they are given in development.
 
Every forward roster proposal shown here looks basically the same as all last year prior to the deadline. Same shit different positions. Something significant needs to change in the top 9 mix and that isn't plugging 20 year old otter in there and expecting him to fix things. The mix of players is bad...
 
Kane has three Cups and a Conn Smythe. He's caused more carnage in the playoffs than everyone on both SCF rosters put together.

Pretending he isn't a "playoff guy" is the weirdest arc in the Playoff Style Hockey Saga.

I certainly think there's an argument to be made that the Rangers aren't the right fit for him but in the hypothetical scenario that he'd take a massive cut to play here, it's just ridiculous to say you'd rather spend more money on grinding.

Unless the league steps in and says "you can't use him because he hurted" (and I wouldn't put it past them to finally start enforcing LTIR shenanigans as soon as the Rangers do it), I could see us getting him for a playoff run for free.

There's no reason to not do that, outside of scapegoating Kane with problems the organization has.
If you think 35 year old Patrick Kane playing on a bad hip post surgery is the missing ingredient to get through the grind of the nhl playoffs for THIS team I really don’t know what to tell you. I mean have you watched any of the series beyond the Rangers Devils series? And yet you still walk away with the idea that a hobbled vet playing perimeter hockey is what the Rangers need to get through the grind of the playoffs, to recover pucks, to get inside the paint, to take and give contact? To play through additional injuries accrued during a run, I just don’t know what to tell you. I know Patrick Kane’s resume. By your logic Wayne Gretzky or Mark Messier should be brought out of retirement to get us over the hump.

We were the softest team in the playoffs AND we were playing the DEVILS. We couldn’t play a lick at 5v5. Couldn’t recover pucks. Didn’t wear down the opponents. We couldn’t keep up with our opponents at all. Copp , Vatrano, Braun and Motte turned out to more effective additions the year before than Tarasenko, Kane, Mikkola and Motte this year. And that’s not trying to diminish the brilliant careers of Tarasenko and Kane. They just weren’t the right fits 5v5. They didn’t fit the construction or playing style of the team and they slowed us down in other parts of the game that matter more in the playoffs. Great players tho. Wrong fits. Barbashev would have been far more effective playing style wise. The team is missing speed, size guys who can retrieve pucks, play up tempo (keep up with Mika and Kreids), hit, get inside, be DURABLE and also have enough skill. Complimentary pieces. Soldiers.

We don’t need players who always need the play to go through them to be successful. That’s the opposite of what we need.
 
Any combo with Panarin in it that is remotely realistic is f***ing ass.

They reallllly need to commit to moving on from him and using that money on different players.
 
If you think 35 year old Patrick Kane playing on a bad hip post surgery is the missing ingredient to get through the grind of the nhl playoffs for THIS team I really don’t know what to tell you. I mean have you watched any of the series beyond the Rangers Devils series? And yet you still walk away with the idea that a hobbled vet playing perimeter hockey is what the Rangers need to get through the grind of the playoffs, to recover pucks, to get inside the paint, to take and give contact? To play through additional injuries accrued during a run, I just don’t know what to tell you. I know Patrick Kane’s resume. By your logic Wayne Gretzky or Mark Messier should be brought out of retirement to get us over the hump.

We were the softest team in the playoffs AND we were playing the DEVILS. We couldn’t play a lick at 5v5. Couldn’t recover pucks. Didn’t wear down the opponents. We couldn’t keep up with our opponents at all. Copp , Vatrano, Braun and Motte turned out to more effective additions the year before than Tarasenko, Kane, Mikkola and Motte this year. And that’s not trying to diminish the brilliant careers of Tarasenko and Kane. They just weren’t the right fits 5v5. They didn’t fit the construction or playing style of the team and they slowed us down in other parts of the game that matter more in the playoffs. Great players tho. Wrong fits. Barbashev would have been far more effective playing style wise. The team is missing speed, size guys who can retrieve pucks, play up tempo (keep up with Mika and Kreids), hit, get inside, be DURABLE and also have enough skill. Complimentary pieces. Soldiers.

We don’t need players who always need the play to go through them to be successful. That’s the opposite of what we need.
I didn't say he was the missing ingredient. I don't think he makes or breaks the team either way. I'm just saying if he's a free asset, take the free asset.
 
Any combo with Panarin in it that is remotely realistic is f***ing ass.

They reallllly need to commit to moving on from him and using that money on different players.
I know you’re gonna keep mentioning it, but a move like this just isn’t easy. I’m all for it if it helps actually reshape the makeup of the roster for the better rather than just making a reactionary move. The main issue is the money and finding a fit for him that’s actually realistic. There’s also the potential for it to backfire and cause this team to take a big step back since he’s their top scorer.

Drury basically needs to recreate the Gaborik trade. Do you trust him to do that? I don’t.
 
Every forward roster proposal shown here looks basically the same as all last year prior to the deadline. Same shit different positions. Something significant needs to change in the top 9 mix and that isn't plugging 20 year old otter in there and expecting him to fix things. The mix of players is bad...
Well the issue is cap and NMCs, so YEAH, the roster will essentially be the same next year, hopefully with a couple of youngsters earning spots. The DIFFERENCE will need to be Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller, and Schneider all growing, maturing and stepping up.
 
I know you’re gonna keep mentioning it, but a move like this just isn’t easy. I’m all for it if it helps actually reshape the makeup of the roster for the better rather than just making a reactionary move. The main issue is the money and finding a fit for him that’s actually realistic. There’s also the potential for it to backfire and cause this team to take a big step back since he’s their top scorer.

Drury basically needs to recreate the Gaborik trade. Do you trust him to do that? I don’t.
The most likely result of trading Panarin is that we just play the same and score way less.
 
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I understand it would be an injury or 2 from a lot of AHL players in the lineup, but again thats how guys get shots and feel its worth being in the Org. Also, that's how you sometimes find your own Bunting or the like, which is always better than signing one from another team.

I think they should look into the tier of players just below that. Guys like Michael Carcone, Joel Kiviranta, Zach Sanford, Vinnie Hinostroza, etc.. They won't block anyone and they work better as 13th forwards if someone in the Org proves to be worth keeping in the lineup. Also, cheaper.

It would be a waste of cap to trade Goodrow only to immediately make the same mistake and give someone else's good bottom 6 player that money instead of developing our own or using that cap space to maybe grab a better player. Like Keller mentioned before.

I don't think signing a couple of decent depth pieces is going to kill the teams cap. With the cap stagnating again this year, there are going to be a lot of players that get squeezed. I don't see the difference between someone like Matt Nieto and Joel Kiviranta being a very large gap.

I'm not saying I'd go give $2.5m to someone, but signing a couple of guys to $1m or $1.1m deals to help solidify and deepen the lineup seems like a rather easy thing to do.

In saying all of that, I'd both sign a couple of decent veteran depth pieces and then also re-sign Gettinger and Lockwood at a minimum

Certainly didn't help much either, once the Debs put the foot on the gas, he was in the rear-view mirrow most of the time. Also 4 of those pts came in the first two blowouts. This is just useless aging UFA all over again. That's my piece.



We not those 1.6, but the ones we didn't take do. Hitting goes both ways to a certain degree, dishing out comes at a cost.

Let's stay with your original point, NYR were the least hit team for their time in the PO, imo that says we were little bitches, passed it early and often as to not get hit and many other scenarios.

Again, if the Rangers moved on, having Patrick Kane score 6 points in 7 games is not a bad outcome. He wasn't brought in to be THE guy. He was brought in to provide secondary scoring. He did that. Whether he scored 6 points in 1 game or over 6 games that's nit-picky as shit.
 
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Can people stop suggesting signing Kane and placing him on LTIR? It's not an option unless he's out for the entire regular season, and there's nothing to indicate that will be the case.
It's not proportional then? It's either miss the entire season and use LTIR or play even a game and full year's salary is on the cap? I thought it WAS proportional. So if you sign him for 1 or 2 mil and he misses 3/4 of the season, the cap hit you need to have allocated for his return would be 250K or 500K...

 
The most likely result of trading Panarin is that we just play the same and score way less.

Well if they play the same that would be bad.

if they play different, he probably isn't necessary.

Though if they keep him, they probably score less anyway. His production has declined in each of his seasons here (this holds true at 5v5 too.)
 
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I didn't say he was the missing ingredient. I don't think he makes or breaks the team either way. I'm just saying if he's a free asset, take the free asset.
He's not free. He demands top 6 minutes. He's not going to sit on your bench. He doesn't fit bottom 6 for any team based on style of play. He takes a spot and doesn't fit the needs of the team as constituted. If we had Barkov Tkachuk and Bennet in our top 6, he could possibly be the right compliment for them. But for Zib, Panarin and Kreider, hard pass. He's not a free asset. He has to be inserted in the HEART of the lineup. On the PP. He needs to produce at 5v5 and help cycle the puck and retrieve pucks. He is just not a fit. In the cap world, there's no such thing as a free asset. He takes up a spot, he costs at best 1m. We have so little space. We need to be far smarter about the makeup of the team and have a vision for how this team needs to play and be constructed to win games in the playoffs. If this were a fantasy team. If this were EA sports. Go for it. If this were a team of grinders and shooters who needed a playmaker. Not the worst option. Construct the rest fo the team and see if he fits. But he's not a fit on this team currently. I would use the 1-3 mil on a different asset.
 
But he will help the team create offense and have and control the puck. That's also important.

Except this team needs a second Panarin as much as they need their legs amputated. There is no balance in the top 6 and as long as that is an issue this team will go nowhere.
 
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Except this team needs a second Panarin as much as they need their legs amputated. There is no balance in the top 6 and as long as that is an issue this team will go nowhere.
I don't disagree that they need to diversify but I do disagree that they don't need another playmaker.

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-_______
Kreider-Trochek-_______
______-________-________

There's obviously many ways to fill those holes but if you told me that going in to next season, I would see something like:

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Foligno (or other hard-nosed vet who will take a smaller salary)
Kreider-Trochek-Kane
Motte-Brodzinski/Blueger-Vesey

I wouldn't hate that. Foligno is a placeholder for Othmann when he is ready.


I guess my issue with the team this year was less about personnel, as it was their deployment and absolute lack of structure.
 
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