Roster Building Thread V (2022-23): Cheese and WINE

[Machinehead]

If Buffalo offered pick #13+ for Schneider, would you do it and what would the + need to be?

We would be adding.

Do people think Schneider will never get better?

I think that.

He doesn't process the game.

Hockey IQ doesn't tend to develop over the years in the absence of hockey IQ.

 

[IDvsEGO]

We would be adding.


I think that.

He doesn't process the game.

Hockey IQ doesn't tend to develop over the years in the absence of hockey IQ.

Funny because I watch his play and I dont see a hockey IQ issue.
Compare him to hajek. Hajek has all the physical tools but almost once a game was in a terrible position and got leveled because he thinks the game too slow so he's a step behind.
Schneider is still developing into his frame, and needs at least 2-3 years before he's as physically imposing as he wants/needs to be.

 

[Machinehead]

Funny because I watch his play and I dont see a hockey IQ issue.
Compare him to hajek. Hajek has all the physical tools but almost once a game was in a terrible position and got leveled because he thinks the game too slow so he's a step behind.
Schneider is still developing into his frame, and needs at least 2-3 years before he's as physically imposing as he wants/needs to be.

Schneider is one of the most hit defensemen in the league despite playing third pair minutes. This describes him perfectly.

 

[haohmaru]

Funny because I watch his play and I dont see a hockey IQ issue.
Compare him to hajek. Hajek has all the physical tools but almost once a game was in a terrible position and got leveled because he thinks the game too slow so he's a step behind.
Schneider is still developing into his frame, and needs at least 2-3 years before he's as physically imposing as he wants/needs to be.

Agree. There's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that he WON'T be significantly better in 3-4 years than he is today. And, at 21, he's not bad today. (edited)

 

[IDvsEGO]

Agree. There's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that he'll be significantly better in 3-4 years than he is today. And, at 21, he's not bad today.

I dont know how you got I dont think he's going to improve in 3-4 years from what I said.
I think he's going to be a top 4 guy, maybe even a little better than Trouba.
But I also think thats going to take time. He's not going to be asked to step up for at least 3-4 years, and the question is will he be ok with that? Trouba wasn't. Trouba wanted off WPG bad because he was blocked.

Schneider is one of the most hit defensemen in the league despite playing third pair minutes. This describes him perfectly.

Is he ever crunched? Do you have numbers on "most hit defensemen" because thats not what my eye test says.

 

[Machinehead]

Is he ever crunched? Do you have numbers on "most hit defensemen" because thats not what my eye test says.

Idk if it's a subscription thing or not, but according to EvolvingHockey, he's the 9th most hit player in the NHL.

Who cares if he's getting crunched? You can get lightly bumped and lose the puck. He's absolutely terrible at zone exits.

 

[haohmaru]

I dont know how you got I dont think he's going to improve in 3-4 years from what I said.
I think he's going to be a top 4 guy, maybe even a little better than Trouba.
But I also think thats going to take time. He's not going to be asked to step up for at least 3-4 years, and the question is will he be ok with that? Trouba wasn't. Trouba wanted off WPG bad because he was blocked.

Was a mistake (corrected). Meant to say there's nothing that leads me to believe that he WON'T be...

I agree with YOU.

 

[Fitzy]

Schneider needs to play with someone who can move the puck. It's really that simple. I've said before Mikkola is a top 4 defenseman when he doesn't have the puck and a borderline ECHL player when he has it. Couldn't be a worse fit.

I think he could play a Lindgren role effectively once he finds a partner that works for him.

The number of players out there at the defensive position who can be effective without adding any offense or skill is going down. NYR have 4 defensemen out of 6 who struggle with transition passing and working the puck out from behind the net. Miller is decent but still makes a lot of mistakes. Trouba's offense has never come from his own zone in terms of starting plays.

 

[The Gloaming]

Idk if it's a subscription thing or not, but according to EvolvingHockey, he's the 9th most hit player in the NHL.

Who cares if he's getting crunched? You can get lightly bumped and lose the puck. He's absolutely terrible at zone exits.

This tracks with my eye test. The dude takes a beating behind the net, its a wonder he's not injured often.

He's like, the anti Fox. Too slow with the puck and doesn't protect himself enough.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Schneider is one of the most hit defensemen in the league despite playing third pair minutes. This describes him perfectly.

I’ve never heard that if a player gets hit a lot, that means they have a low hockey IQ. Getting hit a lot could mean a bunch of things. Maybe he’s a bit slow on his first step and once he’s gets a little quicker he wil be able to evade more hits? As one example.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’ve never heard that if a player gets hit a lot, that means they have a low hockey IQ. Getting hit a lot could mean a bunch of things. Maybe he’s a bit slow on his first step and once he’s gets a little quicker he wil be able to evade more hits? As one example.

If you have a player who’s got all the physical tools but they’re constantly slow to the puck or putting themselves in bad position it speaks to their hockey iq

 

[Raspewtin]

I’ve never heard that if a player gets hit a lot, that means they have a low hockey IQ. Getting hit a lot could mean a bunch of things. Maybe he’s a bit slow on his first step and once he’s gets a little quicker he wil be able to evade more hits? As one example.

Schneider gets hit a lot because he hesitates when moving the puck in his own zone, is slow to retrievals (not because he's slow, he's not, but because he doesn't process where he needs to be in time) and also is just flat out bad at identifying exit lanes so he's liable to get locked into board battles. A lot of this has to do with his IQ and ability to process the game imo.

Idk if it's a subscription thing or not, but according to EvolvingHockey, he's the 9th most hit player in the NHL.

Who cares if he's getting crunched? You can get lightly bumped and lose the puck. He's absolutely terrible at zone exits.

according to NST he's 4th in the league with 182 hits taken (at 5 on 5)

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If you have a player who’s got all the physical tools but they’re constantly slow to the puck or putting themselves in bad position it speaks to their hockey iq

Putting themselves in bad positions i’ll give you, but not if they just physically slow.

 

[MrAlmost]

Hm. I thought Schneider was going to take over for Trouba. Now he has bad Hockey IQ (always my favorite critique), is slow, can't pass and won't get better?

Damn, things have really changed for the kid over the course of this year.

 

[Machinehead]

Hm. I thought Schneider was going to take over for Trouba. Now he has bad Hockey IQ (always my favorite critique), is slow, can't pass and won't get better?

Damn, things have really changed for the kid over the course of this year.

That all describes Trouba, so there you go.

I’ve never heard that if a player gets hit a lot, that means they have a low hockey IQ. Getting hit a lot could mean a bunch of things. Maybe he’s a bit slow on his first step and once he’s gets a little quicker he wil be able to evade more hits? As one example.

The #1 reason you would get hit that much is not knowing where to be.

He's not any slower than Fox. Fox was hit 85 times at even strength which is barely once a game. Schneider was hit 182 times.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Putting themselves in bad positions i’ll give you, but not if they just physically slow.

Except we know schneider isnt slow. Im not really sure where that take comes from. Schneider is a good strong skater. He's faster than fox, he's not quite as fast as miller, but he's not slow in any fashion.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Schneider needs to play with someone who can move the puck. It's really that simple. I've said before Mikkola is a top 4 defenseman when he doesn't have the puck and a borderline ECHL player when he has it. Couldn't be a worse fit.

I think he could play a Lindgren role effectively once he finds a partner that works for him.

The number of players out there at the defensive position who can be effective without adding any offense or skill is going down. NYR have 4 defensemen out of 6 who struggle with transition passing and working the puck out from behind the net. Miller is decent but still makes a lot of mistakes. Trouba's offense has never come from his own zone in terms of starting plays.

The thing is Lindgren is actually pretty effective at making that first pass out of his zone. He's not flashy obviously but he's smart enough and skates well enough to escape pressure and make the right play more often than not. I don't know if Schneider will ever develop that skillset.

 

[IDvsEGO]

That all describes Trouba, so there you go.


The #1 reason you would get hit that much is not knowing where to be.

He's not any slower than Fox. Fox was hit 85 times at even strength which is barely once a game. Schneider was hit 182 times.

Fox has made his entire game around avoiding contact. Fox is 100% all about avoiding the forechecking contact as he's never been bigger than the forwards.
Schneider up until he hit the NHL was bigger and stronger so he probably never cared about being hit.

 

[Machinehead]

Fox has made his entire game around avoiding contact. Fox is 100% all about avoiding the forechecking contact as he's never been bigger than the forwards.
Schneider up until he hit the NHL was bigger and stronger so he probably never cared about being hit.

Maybe he should start.

Being 5 inches closer to the ceiling and 20 pounds heaver when a guy going 30 MPH hits you doesn't make the difference the hockey world thinks it does.

 

[Machinehead]

The thing is Lindgren is actually pretty effective at making that first pass out of his zone. He's not flashy obviously but he's smart enough and skates well enough to escape pressure and make the right play more often than not. I don't know if Schneider will ever develop that skillset.

Yeah, I would be fine with Schneider not being great at transition, but if you can't do a basic zone exit without a partner to do it for you, you're not good enough.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Hm. I thought Schneider was going to take over for Trouba. Now he has bad Hockey IQ (always my favorite critique), is slow, can't pass and won't get better?

Damn, things have really changed for the kid over the course of this year.

Not the first time people have jumped the gun and over hyped a young player and won't be the last. Doesn't mean he can't improve but expecting him to replace even Trouba is probably a stupid idea anytime soon.

 

[MrAlmost]

That all describes Trouba, so there you go.


The #1 reason you would get hit that much is not knowing where to be.

He's not any slower than Fox. Fox was hit 85 times at even strength which is barely once a game. Schneider was hit 182 times.

I mean, I wouldn't say that describes Trouba very well at all, and I guess maybe I am missing the argument? All these D can't be this bad if the team was this good. It ain't like last year where the goalie was literally impossibly good. Also, that's basically 1 hit per game vs 2 hits per game. I really thought the number was going to be higher. Like 300 or something crazy.

Maybe he should start.

Being 5 inches closer to the ceiling and 20 pounds heaver when a guy going 30 MPH hits you doesn't make the difference the hockey world thinks it does.

I would argue that it felt pretty different to me. Haha (For the record, I was 6' 200. So small for a D.)

 

[Raspewtin]

I mean, I wouldn't say that describes Trouba very well at all, and I guess maybe I am missing the argument? All these D can't be this bad if the team was this good. It ain't like last year where the goalie was literally impossibly good. Also, that's basically 1 hit per game vs 2 hits per game. I really thought the number was going to be higher. Like 300 or something crazy.


I would argue that it felt pretty different to me. Haha (For the record, I was 6' 200. So small for a D.)

consider Fox has 300 more minutes at ES than Schneider and also faces the best players in the world every night.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, I wouldn't say that describes Trouba very well at all, and I guess maybe I am missing the argument? All these D can't be this bad if the team was this good. It ain't like last year where the goalie was literally impossibly good. Also, that's basically 1 hit per game vs 2 hits per game. I really thought the number was going to be higher. Like 300 or something crazy.


I would argue that it felt pretty different to me. Haha (For the record, I was 6' 200. So small for a D.)

The Rangers are playing the best pair in the world 25 minutes a game. That's why they're good. I'm worried about the other 35 minutes.

That is crazy. Fox played 300 more minutes.

It might feel different but it doesn't take much to give the puck away. We focus so much on magnitude when it comes to hitting. It takes a love tap to disrupt a zone exit. That's what matters.

 

[Machinehead]

Not the first time people have jumped the gun and over hyped a young player and won't be the last. Doesn't mean he can't improve but expecting him to replace even Trouba is probably a stupid idea anytime soon.