Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[Cruxial]

"Mika—who speaks Swedish, Finnish, Farsi, English and a smattering of French. ... "

An Iranian playing hockey in the NHL? Hey, no way! |

Ziba speaks Finnish. His mother is Finnish and they only communicate in Finnish.

Mika actually wanted to represent Finland in the WJCs, but IIHF rules prevented him from it.

Not that I have anything against Donskoi.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Trade Kreider, sign no one for more than two years

I like my idea better.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I like my idea better.

Great, then we no longer have Chytil/Andersson/Howden/Hajek on ELCs with one year left on Kakko/Kravtsov/Zibanejad's contracts. The latter three will see a combined raise of ~$20M in the 2022 offseason, unequivocally ending our prime contention window.

E: The Kravtsov/Kakko raises assume they play as well as we expect/hope. If they do not, we aren't contending in 2022 anyway.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Great, then we no longer have Chytil/Andersson/Howden/Hajek on ELCs with one year left on Kakko/Kravtsov/Zibanejad's contracts. The latter three will see a combined raise of ~$20M in the 2022 offseason, unequivocally ending our prime contention window.

E: The Kravtsov/Kakko raises assume they play as well as we expect/hope. If they do not, we aren't contending in 2022 anyway.

Very well summed up. I prefer maintaining flexibility until we know what we have in place. If Kravtsov and Kakko take off, the Rangers add another top 10 in the upcoming draft, and have another top 10 pick next year, I don’t see the merit of tying up a forward approaching 30 years old when this is not a viable contender for at least two more years.

 

[Avery16]

There’s not a whole lot more we could’ve done to help TB win

 

[Blue Blooded]

Very well summed up. I prefer maintaining flexibility until we know what we have in place. If Kravtsov and Kakko take off, the Rangers add another top 10 in the upcoming draft, and have another top 10 pick next year, I don’t see the merit of tying up a forward approaching 30 years old when this is not a viable contender for at least two more years.

So we're punting on our prime contention window?

Our plan should be to maximize our next three years and have a plan in place on how to re-tool us into stable contenders after that. Winning the lottery pushed us from "shame that Panarin became UFA a year too early" to "fantastic that en elite talent like Panairin is available at the perfect moment".

Toronto got Tavares in year 3 of Matthews' ELC, imagine if they got him in year 1.

 

[Fugazy]

There’s not a whole lot more we could’ve done to help TB win

They were a Mika Zibanejad short of making it to the second round.

 

[Ghost of jas]

So we're punting on our prime contention window?

Our plan should be to maximize our next three years and have a plan in place on how to re-tool us into stable contenders after that. Winning the lottery pushed us from "shame that Panarin became UFA a year too early" to "fantastic that en elite talent like Panairin is available at the perfect moment".

Toronto got Tavares in year 3 of Matthews' ELC, imagine if they got him in year 1.

2021-22, IMO, has been the target year. The young talent should be ready, and you have four contracts coming off the books.

 

[Fitzy]

My morning hot take-

We're obsessing over 1-2 year differences in player age and playoff contention. We don't have that level of precision either in knowing prospect development or player performance longevity. The primary focus should be steadily making the team better while continuing to acquire solid young players on ELC contracts, and avoid signing mediocre players to sizeable ones.

This is an art, not a science.

 

[RangerBoy]

Trade Kreider for futures.

No long term commitments. The Rangers will do their due diligence talking to player agents and other GM's about making trades. No long term commitments needs to be the end result.

The most popular, and emotional, hot take would be to shake everything up. But as mind-boggling as this ending is, I don’t see drastic changes being made. There will naturally be some different faces on the roster next year, and a blueline makeover with Braydon Coburn, Dan Girardi and Anton Stralman’s contracts up. Ryan Callahan is a buyout/trade candidate, especially with one year left on his deal at $5.8 million.

They’re not going to trade Stamkos or Kucherov. They’re still going to sign restricted free agent Brayden Point, who is due a hefty raise as a restricted free agent even with his one point this series. Tyler Johnson has a full no-trade clause. They could look at moving a forward, bringing in a prospect to have the kind of impact that Mathieu Joseph and Erik Cernak had this year.

You can blame Cooper, and he certainly could have done a better job making adjustments quicker. But the Lightning’s best players also didn’t deliver until it was too late. The three 40-goal scorers (Stamkos, Kucherov and Point) didn’t have a point in the first three games. Ryan McDonagh, who played like a Norris Trophy candidate during the regular season, was a shell of that guy in the playoffs. Cernak might have been their best defenseman, and he was a rookie in his first playoffs.

'Don't know what to say': More questions than answers...

TB gave Stralman a 5 year contract. He was always hurt this season. Stralman turns 33 this summer. He wasn't good for the entire term.

The Rangers have talked to Tampa about Callahan's contract. The Rangers can take on the one year contract. Get TB's 1st rounder(27th) in exchange. Give TB back their 2nd. Callahan's $5.8M cap hit and #27 for #58. Callahan has a limited NTC so he has some control. The Rangers are on his list of acceptable teams. Ottawa will be in the market to take on money to reach the floor. Callahan isn't going to Ottawa. Callahan will be good for the Rangers young players. Gorton told Dave Maloney he is looking for experience character guys to help the young guys play the right way.

The Rangers made the right decision trading McDonagh. During the season, there were a few Rangers followers saying the Rangers should have kept Trucker and not traded him. He was awful in the Columbus series. He was the McDonagh from his last 3 Ranger years. Gorton tried to trade him at the 2016 draft to Edmonton after his 1st bad year coming off the serious foot injury. Gorton saw what was happening with McDonagh.

I like JT Miller but he isn't worth the money either. $5.25M. 5 years. TB will look to move him this summer. Yzerman gave him that contract. I heard on the McKenzie podcast with Lebrun and Dreger before the trade deadline that the new TB GM Julien BriseBois isn't as big a Miller fan as Yzerman. They discussed Callahan's contract during that podcast and Dreger brought up the Rangers as a possibility.
The team paying Hayes will realize the same thing. Hayes will get more than 5 years and $5.25M per. Kreider isn't going to be worth his 6 years/$39M.

The Rangers didn't want to pay JT and they traded him. The Rangers didn't want to pay Hayes and they traded him. Kreider is up next. Gorton needs to have his head examined if he pays Kreider.

Yzerman also gave McDonagh a big extension. 6 years and $6.75M per. It would be $7.5M in New York with state income tax. Good luck with that contract. Ages 29-35. Yzerman is a funny guy. He knew he wasn't going to re-sign with TB but he gave out those two contracts before leaving in September. The new GM might have had different ideas. It's already been suggested he isn't a big JT fan.

 

[Michal]

How do you think who of our young D-men have a real chance to be 1st-pairing ELITE D-man? K. Miller? Skjei? Deangelo? Fox (if we get him)? Anybody else?

How do you assess the potential (which pairing in a VERY GOOD team they can achieve at best) of K. Miller, Skjei, Deangelo, Fox, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Lundkvist, Pionk, Ragnarsson, Reunanen, Day, Keane? I know nobody knows the future but I'm curious what your opinion is.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How do you think who of our young D-men have a real chance to be 1st-pairing ELITE D-man? K. Miller? Skjei? Deangelo? Fox (if we get him)? Anybody else?

How do you assess the potential (which pairing in a VERY GOOD team they can achieve at best) of K. Miller, Skjei, Deangelo, Fox, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Lundkvist, Pionk, Ragnarsson, Reunanen, Day, Keane? I know nobody knows the future but I'm curious what your opinion is.

None really. That's why we are still far away from being relevant.

 

[Blue Blooded]

2021-22, IMO, has been the target year. The young talent should be ready, and you have four contracts coming off the books.

Look at Tampa, you don't contend a single year - you have to get a lot more kicks at the can to get it done. We can set ourselves up to get 2.5 great kicks here and likely many more of slightly lesser quality after that. I say 2.5 because I think the team will need one year to gel and we still have very good prospects in the pipeline that will not yet have made it in 2019-20, especially on defence.

If we go for it in 2021-22 we may have a stacked roster, but they will not have playoff experience and it will be one shot because we will have to make some really tough decisions in the summer of 2022. E.G. letting Zibanejad walk might be on the table.

 

[Irishguy42]

My morning hot take-

We're obsessing over 1-2 year differences in player age and playoff contention. We don't have that level of precision either in knowing prospect development or player performance longevity. The primary focus should be steadily making the team better while continuing to acquire solid young players on ELC contracts, and avoid signing mediocre players to sizeable ones.

This is an art, not a science.

Nah dude. A player pretty much dies once they turn 30. Every time.

 

[Ghost of jas]

How do you think who of our young D-men have a real chance to be 1st-pairing ELITE D-man? K. Miller? Skjei? Deangelo? Fox (if we get him)? Anybody else?

How do you assess the potential (which pairing in a VERY GOOD team they can achieve at best) of K. Miller, Skjei, Deangelo, Fox, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Lundkvist, Pionk, Ragnarsson, Reunanen, Day, Keane? I know nobody knows the future but I'm curious what your opinion is.

Miller, DeAngelo and Lundkvist are the only players on that list with 1st-pairing upside. I’m of the belief that Skjei is not long for this franchise.

 

[Fitzy]

Nah dude. A player pretty much dies once they turn 30. Every time.

You joke, but a particularly vocal poster on here informed me that Blake Wheeler was a bad signing for the Jets.

 

[Edge]

Miller, DeAngelo and Lundkvist are the only players on that list with 1st-pairing upside. I’m of the belief that Skjei is not long for this franchise.

I think the one thing keeping him on the roster at the moment is timing. Miller, Hajek and company aren't here yet, Smith and Staal are....well...they're Smith and Staal.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Look at Tampa, you don't contend a single year - you have to get a lot more kicks at the can to get it done. We can set ourselves up to get 2.5 great kicks here and likely many more of slightly lesser quality after that. I say 2.5 because I think the team will need one year to gel and we still have very good prospects in the pipeline that will not yet have made it in 2019-20, especially on defence.

If we go for it in 2021-22 we may have a stacked roster, but they will not have playoff experience and it will be one shot because we will have to make some really tough decisions in the summer of 2022. E.G. letting Zibanejad walk might be on the table.

This roster is simply nowhere near ready to compete for anything thing other than a bubble position for the playoffs, and more likely than not, on the outside looking in, even if you swap Panarin for Kreider. The defense has one, maybe two pieces that will likely still be here when the team is completed. The forwards are still a work in process. And the goaltending situation is in flux. I don’t see a justifiable reason to rush this process. I think you need to see exactly what you have before you try to maximize your opportunities.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Miller, DeAngelo and Lundkvist are the only players on that list with 1st-pairing upside. I’m of the belief that Skjei is not long for this franchise.

I mostly agree, though I think Hajek might have 2D upside.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Is Brassard even a better option than Strome at this point? He gets hurt, can't carve out a spot any where. Wasn't working as the #3 behind Crosby and Malkin. Not a #2 being MacKinnon.

Look, you sign Brassard and that leaves you with Strome, Howden, Andersen, and Chytil as guys battling for 2 center spots. Or you don't answer the center question on LA and Chytil for another year.

Brassard has been getting traded for less and less. He went to Colorado with a 6th for a 3rd. They were desperate for a second line center and went cheap instead of dipping into their assets. Florida may have been stuck if Colorado wasn't shopping.

That return isn't good enough to clutter the forward groups and muddy our future center depth. Its arguable that Strome is the better player. If we never had Brassard here before no one would want him now.

 

[ETTER DE]

I have watched a little bit of the Tampa v Columbus series. Panarin has everything this board has said has been missing from this team. Pure elite skills. Would be unbelievable if he is possible to sign, without giving up any assets, and the Rangers says NO.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think the one thing keeping him on the roster at the moment is timing. Miller, Hajek and company aren't here yet, Smith and Staal are....well...they're Smith and Staal.

Hajek might be the key on Skjei’s future. If he showed enough in the eyes of management, then I could see them willing to move Skjei.

 

[eco's bones]

I really don't see any of the Rangers current D as legit 1st pairing guys. Skjei's a top 4 and that's where DeAngelo's heading. Miller's a possibility in the future. Fox--I'm not sure about. The Rangers have a bunch of guys who should be good to very good top 4's and looking around the league there are good teams that get by alright without great 1st pairing guys. Boston for instance--McAvoy's got the talent but the offense and consistency isn't really there--the Islanders are another team--there is no one really outstanding on their D. Toronto's just got Rielly but he's not a guy I see ever winning a Norris Trophy.

It will be a big deal for the Rangers when all of Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith are gone--after that the space will be clear for all these coming guys to become what they're going to become. But anyway some of this is about how we define what a legit 1st pairing guys and there are different definitions than mine--but I'm looking at a guy who can play 25 minutes a game night in and night out at a high level in all situations--that includes penalty killing and last minute situations of needing a goal or protecting a lead and an ability to excel in these situations and if they can put up 50 points or more then you've got a real deal No. 1 D. Nobody on the Rangers currently is near that and Miller might turn into a first pairing guy but I don't think he'll turn into a legit No. 1. Our future situation is hardly bleak though--even if we don't have a real stud coming we've got a lot of numbers of defenders who could turn into quality players.

It would also be a good thing if at least two of Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith aren't Rangers this time next year.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I really don't see any of the Rangers current D as legit 1st pairing guys. Skjei's a top 4 and that's where DeAngelo's heading. Miller's a possibility in the future. Fox--I'm not sure about. The Rangers have a bunch of guys who should be good to very good top 4's and looking around the league there are good teams that get by alright without great 1st pairing guys. Boston for instance--McAvoy's got the talent but the offense and consistency isn't really there--the Islanders are another team--there is no one really outstanding on their D. Toronto's just got Rielly but he's not a guy I see ever winning a Norris Trophy.

It will be a big deal for the Rangers when all of Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith are gone--after that the space will be clear for all these coming guys to become what they're going to become. But anyway some of this is about how we define what a legit 1st pairing guys and there are different definitions than mine--but I'm looking at a guy who can play 25 minutes a game night in and night out at a high level in all situations--that includes penalty killing and last minute situations of needing a goal or protecting a lead and an ability to excel in these situations and if they can put up 50 points or more then you've got a real deal No. 1 D. Nobody on the Rangers currently is near that and Miller might turn into a first pairing guy but I don't think he'll turn into a legit No. 1. Our future situation is hardly bleak though--even if we don't have a real stud coming we've got a lot of numbers of defenders who could turn into quality players.

It would also be a good thing if at least two of Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith aren't Rangers this time next year.

I'd argue that DeAngelo was a 1D after the new year (2nd half of the season basically) despite having to carry around Marc Staal most of the time. Now that doesn't make him a surefire one going forward, but limiting his upside to "top 4" is being overly pessimistic in my book. He might not be a PK guy, though you don't know that before you try it - his exceedingly small sample is actually encouraging so far.

5v5 stats in 2019:

 

[True Blue]

That's just not true. Numerous people in this thread and on twitter are saying this. Not saying it's the popular opinion, but it definitely has more support than it deserves. I've seen tons of people say he's not even an NHL level goalie anymore. The hyperbole is insane.

Sorry but where is anyone saying that Henke is done and is on a backup level now?