Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[Edge]

I think the day after his July 1, 2020 bonus is the day he becomes moveable. $2M in real dollars owed and NTC goes down to 8 teams.

If he can bounce back next season, even to the tune of 8 goals and 30-40 points, I think he has a chance to become an option for teams in this last year of his contract.

But that's 15 months now. So we'll see how it goes.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think people would be a little less concerned if it wasn't a down year, coming off a down year, while looking a step slower following major surgery, as he enters his 30s.

When the concerns you have for a player start looking more like a list than an aside, there's probably good reason to be worried.

He looked a step quicker to me. Plus, when a player was never fleet of foot to begin with, it's an annual tradition to say he got slower; as though his skating were a piece of driftwood that finally broke apart and he's now just treading water.

I thought he had a good season overall, considering the team he was on. He was playing first pair at the end, Skjei was playing better after getting paired with him, he's by all accounts a good leader, carries a good attitude, he's not physical but he takes hits to make plays. The last two weeks of the season there were countless shift were Shattenkirk would give up passing up the ice since his teammates were changing or just standing still in the neutral zone, skate it down the ice himself (often on a chip and chase play) keep or recover possession, do a lap in the O-zone while no one played off him at all... he looked very good to me.

The real anchor problems are on the left side. Staal, Smith (who I also thought was mostly fine except for constantly taking penalties), and at this point, likely, Skjei.

 

[Edge]

I know we debate some silly things on here, but the trade value of Kevin Shattenkirk, with two years left, coming off a 2 goal season, really does have the potential to go into our Hall of Fame for debates that don't age well.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I don't think Lundvist is done. On the contrary I think he can win the cup with a very good team. I think it would be great for him to get a chance to compete in conference and maybe Stanley Cup finals at the end of his career. But the truth is we don't need him so much now and maybe he would prefer to be in a better team as well.

He surely would be an improvement in net for a number of current playoff teams. San Jose would be my Cup favorite if Hank was their goalie. Also think he'd unquestionably be an improvement for Calgary and Carolina with Winnipeg and St. Louis being possibilies as well.

However, he has time and time again said that he is all in with the rebuild and wants to be an Ranger for his entire career and it's very important to him that he play his whole career as a Ranger. So until he indicates that this has changed, we have no reason to even be discussing it anymore.

Frankly, the fact that it keeps getting brought up is ridiculous. Every thread has to be derailed with it when it is a pointless conversation to have.

It is entirely up to him whether he wants to stay a Ranger or get traded. He's said repeatedly he wants to stay. End of story.

There's certain posters here who just can't seem to let it go and I really just want to set up a "Creed Thoughts" word document on their computer for them to compile their Lundqvist takes in instead of inundating this board with it everyday.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I don't think Lundvist is done. On the contrary I think he can win the cup with a very good team. I think it would be great for him to get a chance to compete in conference and maybe Stanley Cup finals at the end of his career. But the truth is we don't need him so much now and maybe he would prefer to be in a better team as well.

I suppose we don't need Mika right now either. Or Kreider. Etc.

But seriously, I can sympathize with this point of view: that Lundqvist's timeline and the Rangers' timeline are no longer in sync.

I'm just of the opinion that 16 games on an eliminated team does not a starter make. Like, I'm a Georgiev fan; he looks like the real deal with starter upside. As does Shesty (via a different set of evidence). But I'mnot even close to ready to saying Georgiev is that already; nor do I think there's an especially strong case to suggest he'll be a better option than Lundqvist next season, the season following, or even the year after.

But that's also in part how highly I think of Lundqvist. He's a special athlete. And while I respect the opinion that it'd be better for everyone if Lundqvist parted ways, I think it's the opposite.

 

[haohmaru]

I know we debate some silly things on here, but the trade value of Kevin Shattenkirk, with two years left, coming off a 2 goal season, really does have the potential to go into our Hall of Fame for debates that don't age well.

I don't know if that's more crazy or giving up on 2017 1st rounders already.

 

[Michal]

He surely would be an improvement in net for a number of current playoff teams. San Jose would be my Cup favorite if Hank was their goalie. Also think he'd unquestionably be an improvement for Calgary and Carolina with Winnipeg and St. Louis being possibilies as well.

However, he has time and time again said that he is all in with the rebuild and wants to be an Ranger for his entire career and it's very important to him that he play his whole career as a Ranger. So until he indicates that this has changed, we have no reason to even be discussing it anymore.

Frankly, the fact that it keeps getting brought up is ridiculous. Every thread has to be derailed with it when it is a pointless conversation to have.

It is entirely up to him whether he wants to stay a Ranger or get traded. He's said repeatedly he wants to stay. End of story.

There's certain posters here who just can't seem to let it go and I really just want to set up a "Creed Thoughts" word document on their computer for them to compile their Lundqvist takes in instead of inundating this board with it everyday.

Ok, so it is clear for me now. Hank stays with us. I have not been aware of his words (I'm new in the HFBoards and I haven't followed his interviews/statements).

 

[mike14]

What team is paying that for a third pairing defenseman that does not play a lick of defense and is not allowed on the ice when the opposition's top forwards are on the ice?

Tampa Bay with Girardi....?

 

[Machinehead]

Tampa Bay with Girardi....?

And the Caps with Brooks Orpik

 

[Edge]

I don't know if that's more crazy or giving up on 2017 1st rounders already.

Prospects occupy their own wing in the Hall of Fame.

 

[SA16]

I know we debate some silly things on here, but the trade value of Kevin Shattenkirk, with two years left, coming off a 2 goal season, really does have the potential to go into our Hall of Fame for debates that don't age well.

Do assists not count any more?

He was 29th among full time defensemen in assist rate. That's higher than guys like Trouba, Krug, Spurgeon, Pulock, Dahlin, Suter, Ristolianen, Jones, Faulk, Klingberg, Gostisbehere etc. I am pretty confident he will not shoot 0.93% again. He had a bad year on the PP and was back and forth between units. I am going to make the assumption it is just a down year considering he was the best in the league at running the PP for a 4 year span between 2914 and 2017 and assume it will get better. He also had a PP on ice sh% on 7.89% which is egregiously low as that is lower than most teams shoot 5v5.

 

[Irishguy42]

I know we debate some silly things on here, but the trade value of Kevin Shattenkirk, with two years left, coming off a 2 goal season, really does have the potential to go into our Hall of Fame for debates that don't age well.

Seems dumb to bring this up, tbh.

Exhibit A:

1.4 SH%

If he converted at his 6.4 career SH%, that's worth ~9.5 goals, or roughly the amount of goals he scored on average each season anyway. Heck, do it at 5.3 SH% and that's just under 8 goals, still good.

And he had 148 shots on goal. Looking at what he's done in the past, seems like he was just doing his usual offense generation just fine.

If you're going to pick on Shattenkirk, I know you're smart enough to do better than his goal total from last season. Anyone with half a brain can see that his 1.4 SH% from last season is an outlier.

 

[SA16]

Seems dumb to bring this up, tbh.

Exhibit A:

1.4 SH%

If he converted at his 6.4 career SH%, that's worth ~9.5 goals, or roughly the amount of goals he scored on average each season anyway. Heck, do it at 5.3 SH% and that's just under 8 goals, still good.

If you're going to pick on Shattenkirk, I know you're smart enough to do better than his goal total from last season. Anyone with half a brain can see that his 1.4 SH% from last season is an outlier.

What if he's a bad shooter now?

 

[Trxjw]

I believe Hank when he said he wants to stay with the team until he retires. That being said a lot can change over the course of a season or two. Another year of his game falling off combined with splitting starts with a couple of young kids and watching the L's pile up is going to be hard on him mentally. Couple that with facing down the realization that he might retire without a cup and I wouldn't be completely surprised to see him go the way of Ray Bourque. A cup is the stamp on a sure-fire HoF career. If he doesn't have one he might be the next Curtis Joseph.

 

[Edge]

Seems dumb to bring this up, tbh.

Exhibit A:

1.4 SH%

If he converted at his 6.4 career SH%, that's worth ~9.5 goals, or roughly the amount of goals he scored on average each season anyway. Heck, do it at 5.3 SH% and that's just under 8 goals, still good.

If you're going to pick on Shattenkirk, I know you're smart enough to do better than his goal total from last season. Anyone with half a brain can see that his 1.4 SH% from last season is an outlier.

Cool let’s double it.

Where’s that put us at?

 

[RGY]

Do assists not count any more?

He was 29th among full time defensemen in assist rate. That's higher than guys like Trouba, Krug, Spurgeon, Pulock, Dahlin, Suter, Ristolianen, Jones, Faulk, Klingberg, Gostisbehere etc. I am pretty confident he will not shoot 0.93% again.

To be fair, Shatty has been a 45 point player throughout most of his career. He came back this year after missing most of last season with the knee issue. He has 23 points in 46 GP during that first year here. Does he eclipse 35-40 points on a better team this year? Moving forward? We know he was never a stalwart defensively. Coming back from that injury, Shatty had a very slow start to the season. If he can be back to the 35-40 point form then he hold value with reduced minutes.

 

[Irishguy42]

Cool let’s double it.

Where’s that put us at?

3.8 SH% = 5 (rounded off)

If you want to go with his lowest SH% before this year (4.3%) that would be worth 6 goals (rounded down from 6.364)

I'm sorry, but ragging on him for his goal total this past season is the stupidest thing ever once you look at his SH%.

 

[Edge]

Do assists not count any more?

He was 29th among full time defensemen in assist rate. That's higher than guys like Trouba, Krug, Spurgeon, Pulock, Dahlin, Suter, Ristolianen, Jones, Faulk, Klingberg, Gostisbehere etc. I am pretty confident he will not shoot 0.93% again. He had a bad year on the PP and was back and forth between units. I am going to make the assumption it is just a down year considering he was the best in the league at running the PP for a 4 year span between 2914 and 2017 and assume it will get better. He also had a PP on ice sh% on 7.89% which is egregiously low as that is lower than most teams shoot 5v5.

Sure. Maybe it’s a down year and he bounces back.

And within the context of moving him, I’d be really curious to see which GMs are willing to bank on that for the next two years moving forward.

 

[Edge]

3.8 SH% = 5 (rounded off)

If you want to go with his lowest SH% before this year (4.3%) that would be worth 6 goals (rounded down from 6.364)

I'm sorry, but ragging on him for his goal total this past season is the stupidest thing ever once you look at his SH%.

Yeah, I’m seeing the counter argument and not really feeling too impressed considering that Shattenkirk, in his best days, was not seen as a two way threat.

So the one area he’s particularly good at, still isn’t that good if I take into consideration what you’re saying.

I mean there are plenty of other things we can rag on him for if that’s easier. I just find that his one supposed saving grace ain’t too great either.

 

[Irishguy42]

I'll be saving this for when he's back to a normal SH% next year and still shooting the same amount.

 

[Edge]

I'll be saving this for when he's back to a normal SH% next year and still shooting the same amount.

Could be fun. You know what they say, third year’s the charm.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

What really impresses me about Shattenkirk is his water bottle squirts to bench time ratio (WBS:BTR), he’s a full 3 WBS ahead of Crosby dude is one of the most efficient hydraters in the game today.

 

[Edge]

What really impresses me about Shattenkirk is his water bottle squirts to bench time ratio (WBS:BTR), he’s a full 3 WBS ahead of Crosby dude is one of the most efficient hydraters in the game today.

Obviously this is an exaggeration, and I post this somewhat tongue in cheek, but some days I really do feel like this could be a real conversation:

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Shattenkirk needs be better, though i felt towards the end of the year he was starting to find his game. Hopefully he puts the time in this summer. I really doubt he gets moved though.

 

[Beacon]

Besides the inability to delay instant gratification, what possible reason is there to sign literally any vet? Let's say he will be great and the term will be short enough not to be a problem (neither of which is possible for UFAs except Pouliot types), what's the point? We move down from 5 overall to 13th overall the next couple of years? It benefits us how exactly?

And then running up to the draft you will demand Gorts gives up real, valuable assets to move up from #13 to #5-8? So even if the UFA does great, the result is that we either draft late or lose assets to draft in the same spot?

It's different if this is done by young guys like Chytil and Kravtsov. They are (hopefully) our future core and I can live with a 13 overall pick instead of a 5 overall if it means Chytil is a first liner instead of third liner. But I dont want to live with Ty Dellandrea instead of Kravtsov because we just threw money at a 30 year old who will be a shell of himself by the time our youth matures.