Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[rangers1314]

Did Stastny split his time between C and W this season in Winnipeg?

 

[huerter]

if I'm Drury, I'm doing everything I can to try and get Patrice Bergeron here.

Patrice Shanahan.

 

[CLW]

@bleedblue94

The Kid Line played the vast majority of their minutes in the Carolina series against the Trocheck line.

In that matchup, the Hurricanes lost big in shots and the Rangers scored the only goal. Strangely, the Kid Line was on for 4 goals versus Carolina, with 2 coming against the Staal line in just 7 minutes, and 1 coming against the Kotkaniemi line is just 5 minutes. Carolina did not score a single goal with the entire Kid Line on the ice.

In this series, their most common opponents are the line of Hagel-Colton-Killorn, who they're dominating in shots. In limited time, the Kid Line are absolutely taking the Cirelli line behind the woodshed, and are breaking even against the Stamkos line. That Cirelli line has Kucherov on it. Tampa Bay has also not scored at even strength against the Kid Line.

So yeah, the Kid Line is shutting down Nikita Kucherov and hasn't given up a goal in at least 11 games. Bench them.

TAXI!

 

[McRanger92]

Some will balk at Stastny because he's old. Old players have their advantages. One of his is that he goes away in two years.

If you sign Copp for five or so years, and Chytil breaks out, you lose Chytil and waste money. If we sign Stastny and Chytil keeps up his strong play, you just promote Chytil in a year. He'll be cheaper RFA than Copp is UFA.

Yeah the postseason Chytil breakout has made the Copp decision complicated. You can have both easily next year, but after that you are locked into Copp's contract when Chytil needs a new one, not to mention Miller & Lafreniere. Maintaining flexibility is important for a cap team in a Cup window, and as much as I love Copp's game and think he could put up 60-70 points with us, he's not a critical piece of today or tomorrow's core.

 

[Off Sides]

It's not that Stastny is old, it's how on one hand we can all say, look the kids should be playing more, and then on the other say, let's give coaching a vet to play instead of them.

 

[McRanger92]

Cooper creates a shut down line to take care of Mika.

Gallant you have the tools to stop Stamkos and Kucherov. Goodrow Motte Copp. Either make 1 line to shut them down or 1 of those 3 should be on the ice and in Kucherov's shadow smelling what deodorant he is wearing. Plain and simple.

Those 3 have 4 working legs between them by the looks of it. I dont think they are shutting down much of anything at this stage of the game

 

[NYR Viper]

Some will balk at Stastny because he's old. Old players have their advantages. One of his is that he goes away in two years.

If you sign Copp for five or so years, and Chytil breaks out, you lose Chytil and waste money. If we sign Stastny and Chytil keeps up his strong play, you just promote Chytil in a year. He'll be cheaper RFA than Copp is UFA.

Why are they losing Chytil? Why not both?

Again, the teams depth is at wing, not center. Even if they luck out and draft a very good center this year, it will take 4-5 years before they are a top-9 producer more than likely (no 1st rounder). If cap space is needed they should trade from a position of strength which is at wing (with Kaako, Lafreniere, Kravtsov, Cuylle, Berard, Othmann)

 

[McRanger92]

Why are they losing Chytil? Why not both?

Again, the teams depth is at wing, not center. Even if they luck out and draft a very good center this year, it will take 4-5 years before they are a top-9 producer more than likely (no 1st rounder). If cap space is needed they should trade from a position of strength which is at wing (with Kaako, Lafreniere, Kravtsov, Cuylle, Berard, Othmann)

How are they acquiring cap space trading guys on ELCs?

 

[Ola]

It's not that Stastny is old, it's how on one hand we can all say, look the kids should be playing more, and then on the other say, let's give coaching a vet to play instead of them.

Cooper creates a shut down line to take care of Mika.

Gallant you have the tools to stop Stamkos and Kucherov. Goodrow Motte Copp. Either make 1 line to shut them down or 1 of those 3 should be on the ice and in Kucherov's shadow smelling what deodorant he is wearing. Plain and simple.

Ziba can't get the job done at center, to a degree that it gives us an edge against other contenders.

Could Statsny?

Seriously, what type of game is it Ziba is having trouble playing against? If Ziba is having trouble handling it -- so would most other players in this league. I love how WW86 is thinking, great post! Because really, its a line like that (Goodrow-Copp-Motte) that could cause big problems against Ziba.

I don't want to sound pompous, but really, we always get back to talking about guys like Kessel, Statsny and Rakell in NY. Put a Kessel-Statsny-Rakell line out against Kreider-Ziba-Vatrano and I am certain our guys would destroy it, and so would the lines Tampa and Carolina put on the ice.

Why didn't Florida even remotely stand a chance against Tampa? Sure, they have a boatload of talent. But look at that talent, its plenty of size and puck skills, but its not at all guys that covers a ton of ice and skate the opponents into the ground going up and down the ice like a greyhound. Like a Cirelli. Who did Tampa target with two 1st round picks? Hagel. Florida got Giroux. Tampa have realized what works and what gives them an edge. Florida got Barkov who is a big body compareable to Ziba, Huberdeau who isn't a great skater, Giroux, Bennet, Hornqvist, Thornton.

I've been saying this for years. You need to be really picky here. When you get to this point of the season there isn't much that cuts it.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

There's also the "Strome downgrade" idea for free agency, though that might just be me and @Ola who have any interest in that? Artemi Panarin wants to play a very specific style with a very specific kind of center, and we're obviously seeing the limitations to it right now in the playoffs. But it's not impossible that there's a good KHL vet or a Nic Petan type just floating around pro hockey, who has great creativity and great offensive hockey IQ but not a whole lot else, and maybe you can get 50-60 empty calorie points out of the guy for a couple years while he's getting paid around the league minimum.

It's only worth talking about because especially with a big offer sheet match for Kakko that keeps us from signing Copp, we are basically talking about an organization without centers

 

[nsvoyageurs]

He is a perfect fit for what the Rangers need, its just highly unlikely. He seemed ready to retire after they lost to the Canes but i guess you never know,

Bergeron said recently he wouldn't play for anyone else but the Bruins. Things could change, but I don't see him playing elsewhere. He'd be a great addition by the Rangers though; maybe the best since the Messier trade.

 

[Off Sides]

What amount of ice time and what PP time should the kids get?

If all they do is replace Strome with Stastny, what changes?

I'd consider just filling in Panarin's line with two cheap, yet hard working players. Something like a Blackwell and a Motte.

 

[Ola]

This is what I would do for next season. But before I get to the 5 on 5 lines -- a huge starting point for me when evaluating this team and what it needs up front and where we stand as a team, that is (a) our PP, (b) our defense and (c) Shesty. With those three factors in place next season, we will have a good team that will win games in the NHL. So what more can we do?

Sign Blais to a three-four year deal at like 2.75-3m. Tell him that its his right to take the QO, but be clear that the will the team have to invest in him in the lineup will differ a lot between the scenario where he is about to become a UFA in the near future or the scenario where we know that we can count on him for the coming 3-4 years at least.

Resign Kakko to a long-term 6 year deal.

Resign Motte.

Lineup:
1. Kravy-Ziba-Blais //Why split Ziba and Kreids? Because Kreider does more good elsewhere in the lineup and Kreider-Ziba won't give us an edge anyway against the best teams. Ziba have "figured" it out, i.e. have understood the level you must break the game down to and just how consistent you must be to consistently score in the NHL. He and Kreider are on the same page there. But to pass that on to the rest of the guys on the team, the best way to do it is just to expose them to these guys. Do you think Kane told Panarin to hit the ice and just have fun in Chicago? Nah, Panarin is the same as Kreids and Ziba, he is the same as Jagr was here with Nyls and Straka. You must do things the right way. Kravy from my POV is a super good fit with Ziba. He got that same long stride that gives him a great top speed streaking down ice. He will be really dangerous on the rush with Ziba. He will forecheck well with Ziba.
2. Panarin-Laf-Hunt //Laf isn't dominating the game with his skating and raw skills, but he is a marvelous talent no doubt. He makes so many hard plays look easy. He is really clutch. He is a competitor. He can pass the puck really well. He can skate with the puck really well. He gets into trouble against good NHL defenders along the board, you want him to have the puck in open ice. Put him at C and match him against the best around us for the coming 10 years. Do you guys see him failing that challenge? I don't. I am the only one in the universe who likes Hunt. Hunt is a late bloomer. He doubled his production at age of 20 in the WHL. He have grown consistently over a longer period. He is really cheap and can surely be locked up cheap for a number of years. Invest in him. He transports the puck really well, he isn't without skill.
3. Kreider-Chytil-Kakko //Kreider sitting next to Chytil and Kakko every shift, bring his experience with Ziba to them. This is a line that I think is different than what Tampa have, but that could be sufficiently hard to play against to create problems for teams like Tampa and Carolina.
4. Reaves-Goodrow-Motte //You need more than 9 good players. Goodrow and Motte are both players that can contribute 365 days a year. We will have injuries, lines will be mixed up.
Rooney
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Shesty

PP1
Kreider-Ziba-Kakko
Fox-Panarin

Bottom line: Look, I think this team accomplish two things. (1) It is a good team, no doubt. Best goalie in the league. One of the best bluelines. One of the best PPs. Its deep, the 3rd and 4th line are much better than we saw most of last year. (2) Its creates value, value and more value. Laf and Kakko get bigger roles. PP1 is huuuuge for Kakko. Laf getting time with Panarin AND next to a hard working player who will do the dirty work. Kravy is put in an optimal environment to develop. Really, it is hard to find a much better role. Sammy Blais is given a second chance. He is a good player. We only saw that for a brief stint, but he can become a guy like say Killorn in Tampa. Jones is a very talented D and he would do well, at least during the regular season, in the NHL. He and Schneider would definitly get a bromance going like Lindgren and Fox if they got regular time in the NHL.

Is this a Cup winner? You know what, we will play for it, but given how the contracts come in, the cap, where players are in their development, the facts that Fox, Shesty and Ziba's monster contracts all kicking in at the same time on July 1, honestly, I think we must realize that we aren't contending next season (unless kids take huuuge steps super fast and become stars). Use next season to mount a run in 23/24 or 24/25, and beyond.

Look at Schneider's value before and after he got to play in the NHL. Now he is surely very very valuable. Before, he was another pick. Jones would become valuble. Kravy would become valuable. Kakko and Laf would take further steps. All guys underlined above, these guys value go up a lot. What the above line-up gives us is flexibility in the summer of 23' to take care of business with Miller and Laf. It gives Drury tremendous resources to make moves to take the next step, if it must be done.

 

[mas0764]

The team is going to look largely the same next year. None of the NMC guys are moving and Drury did well to get the Igor, Fox & Zibanejad contracts done before the season. Imagine the contract Mika would be looking for now? 10M AAV at least.

Id like to see them retain Copp & Motte, but the contracts need to make sense. I think this playoffs have shown that the kids (Miller/Laf/Chytil/Kakko) are all core pieces now, and the organization needs to be cognizant of giving long-term deals to veterans that could limit their ability to retain that group.

Completely agree.

You may sacrifice a little by letting Copp walk, but you can't hand him crazy 2C money when he's really earmarked for 3C here if he stays.

He has points, but he's also been kinda quiet recently as well.

Bring in Kravtsov!

 

[mas0764]

if I'm Drury, I'm doing everything I can to try and get Patrice Bergeron here.

I like the idea of Bergeron but not for this team that's cap strapped and needs to develop some young centers.

That's dark ages thinking and it will backfire.

 

[McRanger92]

I like the idea of Bergeron but not for this team that's cap strapped and needs to develop some young centers.

That's dark ages thinking and it will backfire.

How do the dark ages apply to a team that's currently playing in the Eastern Conference Final?

 

[CommaSynapse]

There's also the "Strome downgrade" idea for free agency, though that might just be me and @Ola who have any interest in that? Artemi Panarin wants to play a very specific style with a very specific kind of center, and we're obviously seeing the limitations to it right now in the playoffs. But it's not impossible that there's a good KHL vet or a Nic Petan type just floating around pro hockey, who has great creativity and great offensive hockey IQ but not a whole lot else, and maybe you can get 50-60 empty calorie points out of the guy for a couple years while he's getting paid around the league minimum.

It's only worth talking about because especially with a big offer sheet match for Kakko that keeps us from signing Copp, we are basically talking about an organization without centers

Who would that vet be, though?

Looking at the KHL's top scorers, most of the true centers are older Americans or Canadians. Shipachyov is number one in the scoring race, but he's also 35 years old. You would have to really trust your scouting team.

It's a pretty steady production drop to guys like Denis Alexeyev, and then there's Sakari Manninen, who had a nice showing at both the WC and the Olympics, but he's 5'8" and 30 years old.

 

[bleedblue94]

@bleedblue94

The Kid Line played the vast majority of their minutes in the Carolina series against the Trocheck line.

In that matchup, the Hurricanes lost big in shots and the Rangers scored the only goal. Strangely, the Kid Line was on for 4 goals versus Carolina, with 2 coming against the Staal line in just 7 minutes, and 1 coming against the Kotkaniemi line is just 5 minutes. Carolina did not score a single goal with the entire Kid Line on the ice.

In this series, their most common opponents are the line of Hagel-Colton-Killorn, who they're dominating in shots. In limited time, the Kid Line are absolutely taking the Cirelli line behind the woodshed, and are breaking even against the Stamkos line. That Cirelli line has Kucherov on it. Tampa Bay has also not scored at even strength against the Kid Line.

So yeah, the Kid Line is shutting down Nikita Kucherov and hasn't given up a goal in at least 11 games. Bench them.

Thank you. Based on this, the injuries and limited personnel, and having last change in game 5 you would think they would match those kids up against kucherov bc he is the catalyst for the bolts. I would think a lot depends on who is available to play tomorrow though.

 

[egelband]

Call me crazy, but If Strome is out, I’m moving Copp to the middle and signing/inserting Kravtsov on RW with that line for Game 4. He’s the best option. Othmann is the next best option.

you're crazy

 

[egelband]

The team telling a player they are exploring moving them because they need to get out from their salary is absolutely a valid reason, as is the reason that their role will be reduced as they transition to younger, cheaper options.

Guarantee, no. Valid possibility worth discussing, yes.

And the info was not generic, it was that the Rangers will discuss moving on from high priced veterans earlier than people think. Discuss doing it, not that they will definitely do it.

Hence it's a worthwhile discussion here too.

I don't think it's necessary and don't think it's in the plans. The Rangers will prioritize the core vets.
But you're right, if they do want to move any of those guys, it's a reasonable discussion. The cap is real and everyone's in the same boat. Those deals were all signed pre-flat-cap. So I'm sure everything is on the table.

 

[bleedblue94]

Some will balk at Stastny because he's old. Old players have their advantages. One of his is that he goes away in two years.

If you sign Copp for five or so years, and Chytil breaks out, you lose Chytil and waste money. If we sign Stastny and Chytil keeps up his strong play, you just promote Chytil in a year. He'll be cheaper RFA than Copp is UFA.

And this right here is part of my issue with the outlook of the team bc the moves most people are advocating for this offseason aren't really with a broad view of what is better for this team and organization, it is how to best compliment panarin and manage some of his deficiencies and play to his strengths. I dont think it is wise to make a long term commitment for big dollars for a player to help manage our soon to be 31 year old winger who has a 11.6m aav as his game is starting to change and he will start to decline. You dont compound the problem that will be this contract by signing another big contract to manage this one. Panarin put up points but anyone can see his game has altered this year and in these playoffs, and not for the better.

I appauld your thinking of a lower impact signing to manage this. People keep talkign about how long term the solution is for kreider to be our 3lw, but I think it may be more realistic to see panarin in that role with a deep lineup where he lives on the pp as he ages and we are managing this contract. I know others wont agree, but panarin and zib do not work 5v5, zib and kreider do, and panarin has had no success with chytil ever and now chytil laf and kakko are starting to show that they MIGHT be able to grow into our 2 line as early as next year.

some of the thinking around here needs to shift from how to we build an effective 2nd line around panarin to how do we manage a 3rd unit with panarin whilst elevating this kid unit into a 2 line role

 

[Go Rangers]

I am listening to the LA Kings podcast with John Hoven and Dennis Bernstein. They don't see the Kings giving Lias Andersson a qualifying offer. The Kings don't have room for him. Hoven made an argument for trading Sean Durzi in the package to Arizona for Jacob Chychrun. The Kings have other RD prospects in the organization(Clarke and Faber) with higher ceilings and the Kings should trade Durzi when his value is high. Alex Turcotte, Gabe Villardi and two first round picks to Arizona for Chychrun was a trade rumor they discussed but Turcotte's value is down with the concussions. That trade has to be reworked. The Kings need a first line LW who is a playmaker and LHD who can play in the top 4.

Kings Of The Podcast: Ep. 128 – Summer Kickoff

mayorsmanor.com

There ya go panarin

 

[egelband]

Why do they have to stay together? But yes I would expect to play 3 lines all a lot of minutes.

Yep. All these lines can definitely be switched up. Panarin doesn’t need Strome. Mika and CK are a bit more or a symbiotic thing, but certainly no issue with breaking them up. Defense pairings - at least the cornerstone ones - probably don’t get broken up mid-season. But certainly no problem juggling things in training camp.

 

[mas0764]

How do the dark ages apply to a team that's currently playing in the Eastern Conference Final?

Uh, well, because I didn't say it would turn the team into the Dark Ages Rangers, I said that particular move would be Dark Ages thinking, and any team at any time can exhibit bad decision making reminiscent of the Dark Ages Rangers.

Stastny would be different because you aren't gonna have to back up the brinks truck for him.

 

[egelband]

I will just keep reposting this roster is not only does it make sense for next season, but it fits under the cap...

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kaako/Kravtsov
Goodrow-Chytil-Kaako/Kravtsov
Motte-________-Blais
Hunt

Miller-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Lindgren-Schneider
Braun

Shesty
Vet back-up for $1m

This requires the following to be traded:
Nemeth
Georgiev
Gauthier
Hajek
Reaves

It's POSSIBLE for the team to retain Reaves and demote/trade Hunt as well but it would require some haircuts on the cap hits for some of the RFA's/UFA's.

I love this but I keep Reaves. Like it or not, he’s important to the team. Personally, I love him out there as part of a banging fourth line with Goodrow and Blais. I’d move Motte up. But I really like the roster.

That said, I’m sure they make a couple more changes. They always do.