Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[IDvsEGO]

I for one cannot stand teams that circumvent the cap on purpose. Chicago, Tampa Bay, and Vegas have done that in recent memory.

Ok, people keep using this word Circumvent, and use it like its a negative...
Circumvent means to overcome (a problem or difficulty), typically in a clever and surreptitious way.

The cap has rules, no team has broken the rules. End of story. Vegas got bit in the ass by trying to do the same thing, and missed the playoffs.
There is a serious risk to doing what chicago and tampa did, if you miss the playoffs youre screwed.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

If we don’t re-sign Strome I could actually see Carolina taking a run at him if they don’t bring back Trocheck.

 

[archanfelnsx]

Ok, people keep using this word Circumvent, and use it like its a negative...
Circumvent means to overcome (a problem or difficulty), typically in a clever and surreptitious way.

The cap has rules, no team has broken the rules. End of story. Vegas got bit in the ass by trying to do the same thing, and missed the playoffs.
There is a serious risk to doing what chicago and tampa did, if you miss the playoffs youre screwed.

Yea but if you make the playoffs you can win a Cup. It goes both ways, they cheated, plain and simple. Vegas tried doing the same thing but had to juggle so many players going in and out of the lineup. Tampa kept Kucherov out longer then necessary and only had to integrate one guy back into the lineup. People can defend the fact that they didn’t break any rules, Kucherov was truly injured until the playoffs, blah blah blah. Anyone with any common sense knows what happened.

Last season people were saying what Tampa did was brilliant, and then when Vegas did it this year the GM’s had their meeting and talked about LTIR and how they can fix things. How can it be going from “brilliance” one season to “closing the loophole” the next season? You know why? Because they f***in cheated and everyone knows it, they just couldn’t do anything about it. And to top it off they win a Cup and their GM is hailed as some genius when all he did was cheat. The same GM who gave up 2 1st round picks and two prospects for Brandon Hagel.

 

[Chytilmania]

Yea but if you make the playoffs you can win a Cup. It goes both ways, they cheated, plain and simple. Vegas tried doing the same thing but had to juggle so many players going in and out of the lineup. Tampa kept Kucherov out longer then necessary and only had to integrate one guy back into the lineup.

If we won the Cup because we circumvented or because the other team lost their starting goalie/star player I would not give a crap.

 

[bbny]

Lindgren will be the odd man out. Jones is talented and Robertson is supposed to be that solid defenseman anyway. However, he is a guy we can easily LTIR then activate for the playoffs.

Not any time soon he isn’t.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yea but if you make the playoffs you can win a Cup. It goes both ways, they cheated, plain and simple. Vegas tried doing the same thing but had to juggle so many players going in and out of the lineup. Tampa kept Kucherov out longer then necessary and only had to integrate one guy back into the lineup. People can defend the fact that they didn’t break any rules, Kucherov was truly injured until the playoffs, blah blah blah. Anyone with any common sense knows what happened.

Last season people were saying what Tampa did was brilliant, and then when Vegas did it this year the GM’s had their meeting and talked about LTIR and how they can fix things. How can it be going from “brilliance” one season to “closing the loophole” the next season? You know why? Because they f***in cheated and everyone knows it, they just couldn’t do anything about it. And to top it off they win a Cup and their GM is hailed as some genius when all he did was cheat. The same GM who gave up 2 1st round picks and two prospects for Brandon Hagel.

It was discussed at the GM because it was a topic of "controvery" for the league, not because the GM's actually think its an issue. Theres no way to close that loophole because if you lose a 10m player, you want to replace that player in the lineup...

The GM's shot down any "fix". So saying they are trying to fix it is just wrong.
Also its not cheating. Its working within the system. Now we might not like the rules as they played out, but that doesn't mean its cheating.
Trouba keeps hitting people clean, within the rules. Other teams want him suspended for clean hits because they dont like the end result. Should Trouba be suspended for a clean hit because the other teams dont like the result?

Not any time soon he isn’t.

I think theres a valid question of do we resign lindgren after his bridge deal. The style he plays, and the amount of injuries that have piled up give me pause. I dont want him to be another girardi or staal.
Depending on the growth of robertson I might be open to moving him before the 24-25 season, on his last year of that deal.

 

[CLW]

I think people need to come to grips with the fact that after next season, Lindgren is likely going to become a cap casualty.

It sucks, but it simply just is what it is. We will not be the first team to be forced to trade away a good player (or two or three, I doubt the buck stops with him.) Chicago had to do this dance multiple times during their championship years.

Be happy that Miller looks more than ready to step into his spot if/when it happens.

I also don't doubt that we're going to pull some LTIR f***ery.



The problem is that he likely won't be nearly as good next year either. Maybe eventually, but its going to take time.

Throwing young players into situations that they aren't ready for isn't a great recipe for success. I know it worked with K'Andre, but he's the exception to the rule

LTIR f***ery would be with Panarin as prime candidate. Hey, if Tampa and Vegas are allowed to do it so are every team in the rest of the league. No biggie.

 

[haohmaru]

Yeah, I think we all understand how a NMC clause works and that the player has the final say, but as has been told to us by Edge and others and as we have seen happen before a player with a NMC can be talked in to waiving.

And it can happen here as well. Is it a guarantee? No, but again, it’s not impossible.

So we will keep discussing it’s possibility. Sorry.

From the Rangers end they absolutely have a reason to move on: the money is better spent elsewhere if not this very offseason then soon thereafter.

Edge has said what, specifically? And what/who have "others" said? That it might be a consideration that one of the contracts might be seeking go get moved? No shit. The likelihood of that happening next year, with Trouba specifically, is next to zero. Again, we'll see who had it right.

The Rangers have gotten their money's worth from Trouba so far if you ask me - especially now when it counts.

 

[SA16]

Edge has said what, specifically? And what/who have "others" said? That it might be a consideration that one of the contracts might be seeking go get moved? No shit. The likelihood of that happening next year, with Trouba specifically, is next to zero. Again, we'll see who had it right.

The Rangers have gotten their money's worth from Trouba so far if you ask me - especially now when it counts.

Edge hasn't been here in months, and when he was just stated generic things like a kid bragging he knows more than everyone else. Who cares what he had to say? None of the guys who have a NMC are likely to waive. There's zero incentive for them to do so. All of them either chose to come here, wanted to come here, or are long term rangers. The team is in the ECF and they all have key roles. If you cannot give a good reason of why they would waive then there is no reason to even discuss it. That they will "feel bad" if the team explores deal from them is not a valid reason. You think they care about the tax rate? If they did they wouldn't have chosen to sign here in the first place.

 

[mas0764]

I think people need to come to grips with the fact that after next season, Lindgren is likely going to become a cap casualty.

It sucks, but it simply just is what it is. We will not be the first team to be forced to trade away a good player (or two or three, I doubt the buck stops with him.) Chicago had to do this dance multiple times during their championship years.

Be happy that Miller looks more than ready to step into his spot if/when it happens.

I also don't doubt that we're going to pull some LTIR f***ery.



The problem is that he likely won't be nearly as good next year either. Maybe eventually, but its going to take time.

Throwing young players into situations that they aren't ready for isn't a great recipe for success. I know it worked with K'Andre, but he's the exception to the rule

I don’t think it will be tremendously long before Schneider is close to or better than Trouba. And even if he’s just close, you take the hit to free up the cap space to keep the players who are more important than a second pair defender.

I hear you on Lindgren but if it’s Lindgren at $3m or Trouba at $8m, the choice is Lindgren.

Edge has said what, specifically?

That the Rangers will explore moving on from Trouba and/or Kreider before their NMCs change.

Hence, while not necessarily probable, definitely possible, sooner rather than later.

Later, it’s damn near inevitable.

The Rangers have gotten their money's worth from Trouba so far if you ask me - especially now when it counts.

Even if that’s true it is besides the point. You need his money to pay Kakko, Chytil Laf and Miller in the coming seasons and they are more important than he is.

 

[bleedblue94]

I firmly believe you bridge kakko, laf, and Miller to get you to the window where the cap starts to rise again and then you sign everyone to their long term contracts. Bridge deals have been the sather way for most of his tenure and sather is certainly in advisement w Drury. You can't give everyone the fox treatment and get them a big second contract. Right now bridge deals would allow everyone more flexibility. The one player I would consider a long term deal to depending what the cost would be in Miller bc if his offense comes in unlike what most people expected than we have a potential hedman lite on our hands. Lock his ass up. Laf and kakko are expected to be big offensive contributors down the road, they won't sign long term deals at discounts that don't account for offensive projects and I personally am not prepared to invest in expectations that kakko will be an offensive star. I also think laffy would benefit from a bridge b. It puts him into the window of the NHL cap going up as well so he can make more money.

 

[bleedblue94]

Edge hasn't been here in months, and when he was just stated generic things like a kid bragging he knows more than everyone else. Who cares what he had to say? None of the guys who have a NMC are likely to waive. There's zero incentive for them to do so. All of them either chose to come here, wanted to come here, or are long term rangers. The team is in the ECF and they all have key roles. If you cannot give a good reason of why they would waive then there is no reason to even discuss it. That they will "feel bad" if the team explores deal from them is not a valid reason. You think they care about the tax rate? If they did they wouldn't have chosen to sign here in the first place.

Saying players don't care about tax rates is kind of silly when over and over we hear that they do. We also hear players hating on escrow and while teams everywhere are affected by escrow all it is is net money players don't see from their contracts, the same as taxes. Taxes may not have been a prohibiting factor for guys to sign here (and they probably figure taxes into any dollar amount negotiations to begin with) but it can be an attractive piece for guys to accept a trade away. Just look at dadanov for the reverse.

Regardless I truly think none of them are going anywhere soon, it will just be a juggling act of contracts to get to the point that the cap starts going up again.

 

[bbny]

Edge hasn't been here in months, and when he was just stated generic things like a kid bragging he knows more than everyone else. Who cares what he had to say? None of the guys who have a NMC are likely to waive. There's zero incentive for them to do so. All of them either chose to come here, wanted to come here, or are long term rangers. The team is in the ECF and they all have key roles. If you cannot give a good reason of why they would waive then there is no reason to even discuss it. That they will "feel bad" if the team explores deal from them is not a valid reason. You think they care about the tax rate? If they did they wouldn't have chosen to sign here in the first place.

I kind of assume a lot of "insiders" probably lost their ticket to information with the regime change over to Drury. It was pretty tight-lipped this past trade deadline. Edge might have been in that group.

 

[huerter]

I kind of assume a lot of "insiders" probably lost their ticket to information with the regime change over to Drury. It was pretty tight-lipped this past trade deadline. Edge might have been in that group.

Bergevin's main girl wasn't being told what player she was booking tickets for but Edge was getting all the scoops from our old regime. Definitely.

 

[Machinehead]

I wanna do this in this thread because I don't want to be construed as "oh we're bitching about the game today." I just think it's a worthwhile discussion to have for the long-term.

So we want to get the Kid Line more time going forward. Here's three options we can consider.

A) Just f***ing break them up

This is the way I'm leaning. I think their skillets lend themselves to the roster the best with this option. And like, they're not getting divorced. You could put them together in a game or a series if you think the situation calls for it. Versatility is good.

B) Make them the second line

And then run Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin. @will1066 suggested this. I like the idea of Panarin being the one to move to the right. He's a freelancer anyway. I'm not overly concerned about his "position."

I don't know how well this combo works in terms of their all-round play, but consider this: he played on a line with Patrick Kane. That combination is so stupid, I'm convinced they ripped a hole in the universe and caused the Cubs to finally win a World Series. Kane still put up 106 points and the Hawks were a 1 seed. Like, it's not the end of the world if Panarin's line just rips ass defensively and scores 400 goals.

C) Make KZX and the Kid Line your top six.

Run Kreider-Zibanejad-Anybody Decent and the Kid Line. And then, I'm gonna say this part quiet so nobody hits me...

Just f***ing put Panarin on the third line.

I'm not trying to shit on Panarin but like, it fits his quirks. He can play with who he wants to play with, he can do what he wants, it'll be his line, he can play 2 minutes every powerplay, he can stay fresher and healthier, and if that top six is as good as it can be, it'll be impossible to match up with.

It is now, we're just not playing the kids enough to take full advantage of it.

That's what's great about Panarin. "The Panarin Line" doesn't need anyone else on it. Take advantage of it.

Again, I don't want this to seem overly critical. I think Panarin is just sort of like a basketball star. A lot of big names in the NBA, where the court is so small and lineups don't go in shifts, need the offense designed around them where everyone else plays a role. Panarin needs a line designed around him. I just think the lineup is deeper if that's your third line.

 

[Synergy27]

I wanna do this in this thread because I don't want to be construed as "oh we're bitching about the game today." I just think it's a worthwhile discussion to have for the long-term.

So we want to get the Kid Line more time going forward. Here's three options we can consider.

A) Just f***ing break them up

This is the way I'm leaning. I think their skillets lend themselves to the roster the best with this option. And like, they're not getting divorced. You could put them together in a game or a series if you think the situation calls for it. Versatility is good.

B) Make them the second line

And then run Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin. @will1066 suggested this. I like the idea of Panarin being the one to move to the right. He's a freelancer anyway. I'm not overly concerned about his "position."

I don't know how well this combo works in terms of their all-round play, but consider this: he played on a line with Patrick Kane. That combination is so stupid, I'm convinced they ripped a hole in the universe and caused the Cubs to finally win a World Series. Kane still put up 106 points and the Hawks were a 1 seed. Like, it's not the end of the world if Panarin's line just rips ass defensively and scores 400 goals.

C) Make KZX and the Kid Line your top six.

Run Kreider-Zibanejad-Anybody Decent and the Kid Line. And then, I'm gonna say this part quiet so nobody hits me...

Just f***ing put Panarin on the third line.

I'm not trying to shit on Panarin but like, it fits his quirks. He can play with who he wants to play with, he can do what he wants, it'll be his line, he can play 2 minutes every powerplay, he can stay fresher and healthier, and if that top six is as good as it can be, it'll be impossible to match up with.

It is now, we're just not playing the kids enough to take full advantage of it.

That's what's great about Panarin. "The Panarin Line" doesn't need anyone else on it. Take advantage of it.

Again, I don't want this to seem overly critical. I think Panarin is just sort of like a basketball star. A lot of big names in the NBA, where the court is so small and lineups don't go in shifts, need the offense designed around them where everyone else plays a role. Panarin needs a line designed around him. I just think the lineup is deeper if that's your third line.

Your option C is what we have now, but GG just refuses to assign the minutes that way. Will be interesting to see what he does with Strome out.

 

[huerter]

I wanna do this in this thread because I don't want to be construed as "oh we're bitching about the game today." I just think it's a worthwhile discussion to have for the long-term.

So we want to get the Kid Line more time going forward. Here's three options we can consider.

A) Just f***ing break them up

This is the way I'm leaning. I think their skillets lend themselves to the roster the best with this option. And like, they're not getting divorced. You could put them together in a game or a series if you think the situation calls for it. Versatility is good.

B) Make them the second line

And then run Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin. @will1066 suggested this. I like the idea of Panarin being the one to move to the right. He's a freelancer anyway. I'm not overly concerned about his "position."

I don't know how well this combo works in terms of their all-round play, but consider this: he played on a line with Patrick Kane. That combination is so stupid, I'm convinced they ripped a hole in the universe and caused the Cubs to finally win a World Series. Kane still put up 106 points and the Hawks were a 1 seed. Like, it's not the end of the world if Panarin's line just rips ass defensively and scores 400 goals.

C) Make KZX and the Kid Line your top six.

Run Kreider-Zibanejad-Anybody Decent and the Kid Line. And then, I'm gonna say this part quiet so nobody hits me...

Just f***ing put Panarin on the third line.

I'm not trying to shit on Panarin but like, it fits his quirks. He can play with who he wants to play with, he can do what he wants, it'll be his line, he can play 2 minutes every powerplay, he can stay fresher and healthier, and if that top six is as good as it can be, it'll be impossible to match up with.

It is now, we're just not playing the kids enough to take full advantage of it.

That's what's great about Panarin. "The Panarin Line" doesn't need anyone else on it. Take advantage of it.

Again, I don't want this to seem overly critical. I think Panarin is just sort of like a basketball star. A lot of big names in the NBA, where the court is so small and lineups don't go in shifts, need the offense designed around them where everyone else plays a role. Panarin needs a line designed around him. I just think the lineup is deeper if that's your third line.

Here's a really novel and simple idea....stop thinking about lines as a tier system.

 

[will1066]

I wanna do this in this thread because I don't want to be construed as "oh we're bitching about the game today." I just think it's a worthwhile discussion to have for the long-term.

So we want to get the Kid Line more time going forward. Here's three options we can consider.

A) Just f***ing break them up

This is the way I'm leaning. I think their skillets lend themselves to the roster the best with this option. And like, they're not getting divorced. You could put them together in a game or a series if you think the situation calls for it. Versatility is good.

B) Make them the second line

And then run Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin. @will1066 suggested this. I like the idea of Panarin being the one to move to the right. He's a freelancer anyway. I'm not overly concerned about his "position."

I don't know how well this combo works in terms of their all-round play, but consider this: he played on a line with Patrick Kane. That combination is so stupid, I'm convinced they ripped a hole in the universe and caused the Cubs to finally win a World Series. Kane still put up 106 points and the Hawks were a 1 seed. Like, it's not the end of the world if Panarin's line just rips ass defensively and scores 400 goals.

C) Make KZX and the Kid Line your top six.

Run Kreider-Zibanejad-Anybody Decent and the Kid Line. And then, I'm gonna say this part quiet so nobody hits me...

Just f***ing put Panarin on the third line.

I'm not trying to shit on Panarin but like, it fits his quirks. He can play with who he wants to play with, he can do what he wants, it'll be his line, he can play 2 minutes every powerplay, he can stay fresher and healthier, and if that top six is as good as it can be, it'll be impossible to match up with.

It is now, we're just not playing the kids enough to take full advantage of it.

That's what's great about Panarin. "The Panarin Line" doesn't need anyone else on it. Take advantage of it.

Again, I don't want this to seem overly critical. I think Panarin is just sort of like a basketball star. A lot of big names in the NBA, where the court is so small and lineups don't go in shifts, need the offense designed around them where everyone else plays a role. Panarin needs a line designed around him. I just think the lineup is deeper if that's your third line.

Option B is such an elegant solution. The kids have learned to work together, and be good at it. They should run roughshod over regular season competition next year. You stack your three moneymakers who will be here for years and years. You take Panarin's e-w toys away and make him figure his shit out with K-Z, who will not play that style with him. You go top heavy like Colorado, Toronto and Edmonton with their star players because you know you've got a pretty f***ing good second line of up and coming 4-5-6 Fs.

 

[SA16]

Saying players don't care about tax rates is kind of silly when over and over we hear that they do. We also hear players hating on escrow and while teams everywhere are affected by escrow all it is is net money players don't see from their contracts, the same as taxes. Taxes may not have been a prohibiting factor for guys to sign here (and they probably figure taxes into any dollar amount negotiations to begin with) but it can be an attractive piece for guys to accept a trade away. Just look at dadanov for the reverse.

Regardless I truly think none of them are going anywhere soon, it will just be a juggling act of contracts to get to the point that the cap starts going up again.

Trouba, Panarin, Kreider all chose to sign 7+ year deals with the Rangers. Clearly the tax rate is not a big deal for them or they would not have done so. The players hate on escrow but many of them don’t even understand what it is. Just like at Jonathan Toews comments in the past. He complains about it and simultaneously shows he doesn’t have a clue what it is at the same time.

 

[Machinehead]

Here's a really novel and simple idea....stop thinking about lines as a tier system.

Tell Gallant that, not me.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Lindgren will be the odd man out. Jones is talented and Robertson is supposed to be that solid defenseman anyway. However, he is a guy we can easily LTIR then activate for the playoffs.

Robertson is definitely the odd man out out of those 3. Lindgren is not going anywhere, especially after how valuable he is in the playoffs.

 

[huerter]

Tell Gallant that, not me.

Lol, Gallant and every other coach already grasp this. It's the donk hipsters in the media and the fans who love their line numbering.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol, Gallant and every other coach already grasp this. It's the donk hipsters in the media and the fans who love their line numbering.

Look at the ice time.

Gallant has numbered his lines.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Robertson is definitely the odd man out out of those 3. Lindgren is not going anywhere, especially after how valuable he is in the playoffs.

Also Lindgren is 23yo. Not sure why everyone thinks he will be broken by 26yo. Girardi didnt break down till around 30.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

The Oilers should consider a call about Georgiev

And Vegas and Vancouver.