Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

[Ola]

I think some of the Stepan maneuvering was the Rangers seeing if they could adjust the course of the team by changing it's make-up. The wheels coming off in 2018 just solidified that they needed a more drastic change. Keep in mind that in addition to moving Stepan there were rumblings about Thornton coming to NY as a UFA. That probably changes things quite a bit had he not elected to stay in San Jose.

I also think the Rangers had some legitimate concerns about Stepan's longevity and wanted to get out from under his contract. There was likely a bit of marketing laid over the top of that for the casual fan base.

Despite where the true rebuild may or may not have started, we're at best coming up on the 2 year mark. That's not a lot of time under normal circumstances, but Gorton has done an excellent job of extracting value out of his trade assets. I think now is the time they'll turn up the dial a little bit and try to focus on landing those premium pieces. Chytil, Howden, Lemieux, etc, all look like a solid supporting core up front. Kakko, Zibanejad, and Kravtsov could be a great foundation for the top-six. There are a lot of quality pieces on the way to build the blue line.

That being said, I don't think there's any point in adding expensive older players until you get a better picture of how this plan is going to take shape. It could be 3 years before this team shows enough progression to start making a run at the playoffs. It could be 5. It could be next year if our top prospects make huge impacts and we see monstrous progression from some of the other guys. Until that happens though, I think staying the course is the best way to go.

Stepan was entering his NMC years, if Gorts don’t make that move we are still stuck with him. It was a rebuild move before Gorts felt he had the mandate to go full throttle with the rebuild.

 

[Ola]

If Kreider is traded, Howden should be moved/converted to LW. From my POV there is where he can show real upside. Skate like he does at center, but not have too much responsibility with the puck.

I also think you should consider moving Lias to LW.

Go with Ziba-Chytil-Strome-Boo at center.

It’s not that appealing, fun, but Lias should start the year in HFD. Its the last year he can play there, right? He has been rushed and needs to get to play more with the puck.

My bet at opening night team is probably:
Kreider-Ziba-Buch
Lemieux-Chytil-Kakko
Kravy-Strome-Namestnikov
Vesey(?)-/Howden-Boo(?)-Fast

But I certainly wouldn’t mind if Gorts could make a move or two...

 

[n8]

I've been arguing for a while that there's a transition era that often gets overlooked, and the era is more or less what you're describing.

Even if everything falls into place, it's not typically a prolonged period of time, but it's an essential one.

Even Crosby took 4 years to win a cup and he showed up to the NHL with multiple 100+ point seasons. Malkin 3 since he came a year later. Same with the ridiculous point totals.

 

[effen]

Kids should (and will) get every chance to prove they are centers at the NHL level this coming year. There is no rush to make someone a winger.

 

[Ola]

Before you could talk about set time tables. When the nukes started to come in a team often missed the POs. Then they made the POs, but needed to fail hard once. Then they where ready to win it all. Colorado fitted that bill, think many glanced at them.

But I don’t think that fits anymore. If 16 teams can’t win it this off season, I wonder if it’s not 14... The Islanders can win series just like Vegas did. If you can somehow compete, not get killed defensively, all teams has so big issues on their roster and less then great depth that you get plenty of opportunities to win.

It’s harder to get into the POs, than to compete in the POs. You just have so small margins during the regular season. You can’t have those bad stretches, and if you have holes they will come. PK/PP, you need 4 lines, goaltending, somewhat set D units and pairings etc. Every year you make bigger changes it just takes time to get everything right. You also need depth, can’t play short handed due to having rushed kids or over the hill vets on the roster. Watching Vegas vs EDM last season should have been an eye opener for EDM. It was like they where short handed every other shift, either a rushed Pulju was out there or guys like Lucic or Kassian and co.

The biggest concern I have is not lack of goto players, it’s the fact that we to such a large extent havent started to build a team that is supposed to take us out of the rebuild. Especially the blueline. While selling, I would love for Gorts to go harder for younger players that can come in a play a part. Not many teams are built on a bunch of high picks.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

You walked right into that one...

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Ideally I'd also like to start building a rapport between Lemieux and Howden.

How sweet

 

[effen]

The biggest concern I have is not lack of goto players, it’s the fact that we to such a large extent havent started to build a team that is supposed to take us out of the rebuild. Especially the blueline. While selling, I would love for Gorts to go harder for younger players that can come in a play a part. Not many teams are built on a bunch of high picks.

There's a ton of young blueline depth. It's gonna take 2-3 years to get it sorted out just in terms of who should play, let alone let them hit the 200-300 game mark where they learn to play NHL level defense.

 

[Ola]

You can state yourself blind at the draft as a source for players, with some adds from UDFA or even UFA.

But so much can be done — and is often done by the teams that succeed — with players that are a few years into their careers.

In that sense the dead weight is hurting us quite much. We have room for the kids and a few others dumped on us rhat it seems like we are trying really hard to manage from an asset POV to get some return. There aren’t many guys that we have brought in because we believes they might have something in them. Strome maybe?

 

[Beacon]

My Bern Plan:

1. Fast, second rounder, prospect like Gross or Crawley for Fox
2. Kreider for a Hayes like trade (18-22 pick in 2020 and a young guy with limited potential)
3. Names, Vesey for second or third round picks, depending on the season they have in 2019-20.
4. Shatty, Smith, Staal at the 2021 TDL (when they almost no term left) for third round picks (maybe one of them gets a second round pick), depending on their play the next 2 seasons.

2019: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third
2020: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 3 thirds
2021: 1 first, 2 seconds, 3 thirds

If guys like Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Fox look like they are working out in 2 years, then consider signing a UFA at that point in the summer of 2021. If not, things will get a lot more difficult because if our prospects bust, next time there will not be an army of vets we can trade for picks/prospects. That's why it's so important to get more shots at prospects now, we need to make sure we get it right the first time.

 

[haohmaru]

My Bern Plan:

1. Fast, second rounder, prospect like Gross or Crawley for Fox
2. Kreider for a Hayes like trade (18-22 pick in 2020 and a young guy with limited potential)
3. Names, Vesey for second or third round picks, depending on the season they have in 2019-20.
4. Shatty, Smith, Staal at the 2021 TDL (when they almost no term left) for third round picks (maybe one of them gets a second round pick), depending on their play the next 2 seasons.

2019: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third
2020: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 3 thirds
2021: 1 first, 2 seconds, 3 thirds

If guys like Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Fox look like they are working out in 2 years, then consider signing a UFA at that point in the summer of 2021. If not, things will get a lot more difficult because if our prospects bust, next time there will not be an army of vets we can trade for picks/prospects. That's why it's so important to get more shots at prospects now, we need to make sure we get it right the first time.

1.) Overpaying for Fox in a huge way. 3rd rounder or wait 'til next summer
2.) Agree
3.) Vesey yes, Namestnikov no. Maybe move Namestnikov at the deadline if he's playing like he did most of this year.
4.) Good lord, I hope Staal and Smith are long gone or retired before '21. I can dream.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Smiley face = joke.

Same here, no worries, wanted to see who would bite

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I actually think Lemieux and Andersson should stapled to each other.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

My Bern Plan:

1. Fast, second rounder, prospect like Gross or Crawley for Fox
2. Kreider for a Hayes like trade (18-22 pick in 2020 and a young guy with limited potential)
3. Names, Vesey for second or third round picks, depending on the season they have in 2019-20.
4. Shatty, Smith, Staal at the 2021 TDL (when they almost no term left) for third round picks (maybe one of them gets a second round pick), depending on their play the next 2 seasons.

2019: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third
2020: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 3 thirds
2021: 1 first, 2 seconds, 3 thirds

If guys like Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Fox look like they are working out in 2 years, then consider signing a UFA at that point in the summer of 2021. If not, things will get a lot more difficult because if our prospects bust, next time there will not be an army of vets we can trade for picks/prospects. That's why it's so important to get more shots at prospects now, we need to make sure we get it right the first time.

Double the length if you want Bern status

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I read Brooks latest, about Fox potentially costing three 2nd round picks

Get out of here with that, it’s bananas

Carolina has no leverage. Everyone in the industry is saying Fox signing with the Rangers is pretty much a done deal.

f***ing call up Carolina when Tampa inevitably chokes out of the first round and offer their second. They know the deal, no one else is moving assets for him when he only wants to play for us.

And if they’re going to be stingy, tell them to have fun losing him for nothing and making you look like bigger dummies in that Calgary deal

 

[I Eat Crow]

I read Brooks latest, about Fox potentially costing three 2nd round picks

Get out of here with that, it’s bananas

Carolina has no leverage. Everyone in the industry is saying Fox signing with the Rangers is pretty much a done deal.

****ing call up Carolina when Tampa inevitably chokes out of the first round and offer their second. They know the deal, no one else is moving assets for him when he only wants to play for us.

And if they’re going to be stingy, tell them to have fun losing him for nothing and making you look like bigger dummies in that Calgary deal

Pretty much.

This summer, 3rd rounder or GTFO. They'll lose him for nothing next summer. I'm sure Fox has no problem going back to Harvard for senior year.

 

[Edge]

I read Brooks latest, about Fox potentially costing three 2nd round picks

Get out of here with that, it’s bananas

Carolina has no leverage. Everyone in the industry is saying Fox signing with the Rangers is pretty much a done deal.

****ing call up Carolina when Tampa inevitably chokes out of the first round and offer their second. They know the deal, no one else is moving assets for him when he only wants to play for us.

And if they’re going to be stingy, tell them to have fun losing him for nothing and making you look like bigger dummies in that Calgary deal

Interested in Fox, but that’s a big “pass” at that price.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

3 2nds for Fox

Imagine we traded 3 2nds for Vesey or Schultz?

Fox is a nice prospect but I'm not giving up that much for a Harvard product

 

[Fugazy]

3 2nds for Fox

Imagine we traded 3 2nds for Vesey or Schultz?

Fox is a nice prospect but I'm not giving up that much for a Harvard product

Agreed. The furthest I’ll go is giving up the second rounder we’re about to get after Tampa’s elimination.

 

[Cag29]

1.) Overpaying for Fox in a huge way. 3rd rounder or wait 'til next summer
2.) Agree
3.) Vesey yes, Namestnikov no. Maybe move Namestnikov at the deadline if he's playing like he did most of this year.
4.) Good lord, I hope Staal and Smith are long gone or retired before '21. I can dream.

Agree

 

[Leetch3]

I read Brooks latest, about Fox potentially costing three 2nd round picks

Get out of here with that, it’s bananas

Carolina has no leverage. Everyone in the industry is saying Fox signing with the Rangers is pretty much a done deal.

****ing call up Carolina when Tampa inevitably chokes out of the first round and offer their second. They know the deal, no one else is moving assets for him when he only wants to play for us.

And if they’re going to be stingy, tell them to have fun losing him for nothing and making you look like bigger dummies in that Calgary deal

brooks said it would cost 1 of the 3 2nd rounders not all 3

But they might have been tempted at No. 31. Now, the Blueshirts will have to consider whether to sacrifice one of what could be as many as three second-rounders (their own at No. 37, Tampa Bay’s at what would be 58, and Dallas’ at what would be 49) in order to acquire the 21-year-old.

 

[Matt4776]

brooks said it would cost 1 of the 3 2nd rounders not all 3

I'd give up 58. That's about my limit.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I don't see why we should give up any asset. Just wait the year ...

edit: specially considering Fox lacks the most important part of today's game : skating

 

[Ola]

What do you guys think about this set-up next season?

Deal 1.
Kreider to Ari for 1st and 3rd in 19' and conditional 1st in 20' if he resigns, otherwise a 3rd.

Deal 2.
Vesey for what ever pick you can get. Maybe someone needing a change of scenery?

Deal 3
A second for Adam Fox.

UFA signing.
Sign Curtis Lazar

Line-up NYR
Namestnikov-Ziba-Buch
Gettinger-Strome-Vinny L
Lemieux-Howden-Lazar
Smith-Boo-Fast

Staal-TDA
Skjei-Shatty
Claesson-Pionk

Hank
Geo

Line-up HFD
Kravtsov-Chytil-Meskanen
Belesky-Lias-Kakko
Newel-Barron-Fogarty
Gropp-Fontaine-Elmer
Ronning

Hajak-Fox
Lindgren-Keane
Bigras-Raddys
Day

Shestyorkin
Huska

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Looks like you want to win the Calder Cup ... fine by me.

Deal 1: sounds good. I wouldn't trade Kreider, but for that package, I might just not care.

Deal 2: Sure.

Deal 3: No. Just wait the year.

UFA signing, ok cool. Lemieux, Lias and Lazar on a line sounds like a pain in the ass to play against.