Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

[effen]

So what’s the timeline on the LD?

Skjei stays
Staal, Smith , Claesson stop gaps
Hajek, Lindgren .. 1 makes it?
Rykov -AHL
Miller - still in College ?

pretty much.
they may well not qualify Claesson but he seems like an ideal #7, and he's made pretty much minimum salaries as a pro. I think there's a lot of merit to signing him to like 3/4.5.

Rangers had very few injuries this year, particularly on defense. he can fill in for a few weeks in a lot of roles. if they don't, I'd imagine Lindgren gets that job but he's a little lacking in footspeed for that flex role.

 

[Off Sides]

IMO that’s revisionist history. A large percentage of this board argued that summer that “swapping Stepan for Shattenkirk” was a net upgrade.

I'd guess similar percentage, and many of the same, are arguing pro expensive UFAs now.

Panarin is about 10 years older than whoever they draft this year, about 9 from last draft, how many years where both are in their prime can they share?

The heart wants what the heart wants, credit to @Edge

 

[Ghost of jas]

IMO that’s revisionist history. A large percentage of this board argued that summer that “swapping Stepan for Shattenkirk” was a net upgrade.

At that point, the philosophy was still "rebuild on the fly". That ended at the publishing of the letter. The letter was the official start of the current rebuild. We're 14 months into this rebuild.

 

[Machinehead]

Skjei is a warm body until the rebuild is over.

When it is, we should look for better.

 

[duhmetreE]

At that point, the philosophy was still "rebuild on the fly". That ended at the publishing of the letter. The letter was the official start of the current rebuild. We're 14 months into this rebuild.

It's 2 seasons and this will be our 3rd draft with multiple 1sts.

2019-2020 will be our 3rd season and 4th draft.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's 2 seasons and this will be our 3rd draft with multiple 1sts.

2019-2020 will be our 3rd season and 4th draft.

So you think a team starts a rebuild by paying 10 million a year for 2 D-men? Doesn't feel like a rebuild to me honestly.

 

[Fitzy]

My ideal is having Staal be the 7th defenseman, but that seems unlikely from a coaching perspective.

One thing I hope that they don't do is buy out Staal or Smith this summer- we'd only really be saving money for the upcoming season and paying for it beyond that.

 

[Rongomania]

It's 2 seasons and this will be our 3rd draft with multiple 1sts.

2019-2020 will be our 3rd season and 4th draft.

Exactly. We’re at least 24 months in. We’re ready for playoff bubble and that’s honestly on paper as of now, what it looks like.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Exactly. We’re at least 24 months in. We’re ready for playoff bubble and that’s honestly on paper as of now, what it looks like.

Like last season, a loooot of things will have to go right to be a playoff bubble team

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Exactly. We’re at least 24 months in. We’re ready for playoff bubble and that’s honestly on paper as of now, what it looks like.

24 months in June since the Stepan trade, not the start of the rebuild. They didn't really start to make a concerted effort to off loading players until last TDL.

I mean, if you want to assign the start of a rebuild to the day a core piece was traded, why not start with the Brassard trade?

Last year was really our 1st full draft in a long time. They had 2 1sts in 2017, but after the Chytil pick (21st) they didn't pick again until 123.

 

[haohmaru]

It took 10 years from the 2004 firesale to the 2014 SCF.

Mcdonagh was sent to the minors at 21. Kreider and Callahan at 22. Zuccarello at 24. Martin St. Louis at almost 25. Zibanejad hit his ceiling at 25, Brassard at 27, St. Louis at 28.

But no doubt the new crop of prospects will all put the likes of St Louis and McDonaugh to shame, becoming veteran-level good by their 21 birthday. No doubt.

Zibanajed hit his ceiling? WTF? Let's wait 'til he gets older before declaring that, eh?

It's not similar - every year during those "10 years" they were going for it in some capacity or other. Jagr, Nylander, Gomez, Drury, Redden, Richards, and on and on and on.

The trend towards a younger NHL has been going on for nearly 15 years. Look at rosters around the league - look at your own Blue Jackets example - Texier 19, Werenski 21, Dubois 20, Jones 24, Bjorkstrand 23, Nutivaara 24. Islanders Barzal 21, Beauvillier 21, Pelech 24, Pulock 24. Avalanche Rantanen 22, Compher 23, MacKinnon 23, Girard 20, Zadorov 23, Jost 20, Kerfoot 24.

This isn't 2004 anymore. The Rangers didn't build through the draft like they are during these three seasons. Your past examples don't line up with what Gorton & Co. are doing right now.

Look at that Avalanche starting lineup - SEVEN guys 24 or under. That's where the league is going. Quit looking to the past and start looking ahead.

 

[haohmaru]

24 months in June since the Stepan trade, not the start of the rebuild. They didn't really start to make a concerted effort to off loading players until last TDL.

I mean, if you want to assign the start of a rebuild to the day a core piece was traded, why not start with the Brassard trade?

Last year was really our 1st full draft in a long time. They had 2 1sts in 2017, but after the Chytil pick (21st) they didn't pick again until 123.

Gorton said they were rebuilding after the Stepan trade. I didn't just make some shit up. If he says it, that's good enough for me.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It's 2 seasons and this will be our 3rd draft with multiple 1sts.

2019-2020 will be our 3rd season and 4th draft.

Two of those drafts will have taken place after the publishing of the letter...in a 16 month timeframe.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gorton said they were rebuilding after the Stepan trade. I didn't just make some **** up. If he says it, that's good enough for me.

Rebuild on the fly is not a rebuild.

Why are you ignoring everything AFTER the word rebuild? I mean if he declared a full and true rebuild at that moment, why even bother sending the letter out a few months later (along with that, he mentioned that the team would actually be rebuilding when he met with the press the morning it was sent out, no on the fly bs, just straight rebuild.)

I don't even understand why this is up for debate.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Gorton said they were rebuilding after the Stepan trade. I didn't just make some **** up. If he says it, that's good enough for me.

"rebuilding on the fly" is not the same as rebuilding

 

[DanielBrassard]

It took 10 years from the 2004 firesale to the 2014 SCF.

Mcdonagh was sent to the minors at 21. Kreider and Callahan at 22. Zuccarello at 24. Martin St. Louis at almost 25. Zibanejad hit his ceiling at 25, Brassard at 27, St. Louis at 28.

But no doubt the new crop of prospects will all put the likes of St Louis and McDonaugh to shame, becoming veteran-level good by their 21 birthday. No doubt.

McDonagh was a top-pairing defenseman by 22, Kreider was a top line LW at 22. Callahan was a 4th round pick not a top 10 or even 21st pick. Zuccarello wasn't given a chance to play fulltime until he was 26, and when he was 23 he put up .5PPG in limited ice time and had ridiculously good possession and Scoring chance numbers while shooting at around half of his career sh% at 5v5. Brassard and St. Louis are extreme outliers, way more than players who are major contributors at 19-21. If the newer prospects take as long to develop as MSL, Brassard, or even Zuccarello we are in trouble.

 

[DanielBrassard]

24 months in June since the Stepan trade, not the start of the rebuild. They didn't really start to make a concerted effort to off loading players until last TDL.

I mean, if you want to assign the start of a rebuild to the day a core piece was traded, why not start with the Brassard trade?

Last year was really our 1st full draft in a long time. They had 2 1sts in 2017, but after the Chytil pick (21st) they didn't pick again until 123.

Trading Brassard for an established NHL'er is a lot different than trading your #1 center for the #7 overall pick and a defenseman who had played 36 games in the league. But I would agree that I don't think they were in total rebuild mode, although IDK why they thought trading Stepan away was a good idea if they weren't going to rebuild but that's too far past now.

 

[haohmaru]

Two of those drafts will have taken place after the publishing of the letter...in a 16 month timeframe.

Per the vaunted letter:

"We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come"

I rest my case.

 

[haohmaru]

"rebuilding on the fly" is not the same as rebuilding

See above.

 

[Matt4776]

Per the vaunted letter:

"We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come"

I rest my case.

Reshaping DNE rebuilding.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Per the vaunted letter:

"We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come"

I rest my case.

Yes, I'm certain that if the Rangers were a fringe playoff team at the time the letter came out, they'd proceed to make the moves they did at the deadline.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

See above.

And reshaping is still not the same as rebuilding. They started something else, and then committed to the rebuild once the season was a failure

 

[haohmaru]

Reshaping DNE rebuilding.

Began the process last summer. We can agree to disagree.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trading Brassard for an established NHL'er is a lot different than trading your #1 center for the #7 overall pick and a defenseman who had played 36 games in the league. But I would agree that I don't think they were in total rebuild mode, although IDK why they thought trading Stepan away was a good idea if they weren't going to rebuild but that's too far past now.

It is for sure, but Zibanejad still had a ton of ?'s around him.

In hindsight, it was clearly a move that they wanted to make to clear up some space for Shattenkirk while restocking the system a bit. I don't think they anticipated the team being as bad as they were the following season.

 

[haohmaru]

And reshaping is still not the same as rebuilding. They started something else, and then committed to the rebuild once the season was a failure

Like I said above, he said that's where the process began. I'll take that as that's when the writing was on the wall and they started making the moves that they did.

And, yeah, I agree that Smith wasn't a great move in hindsight. Shattenkirk, however, had he continued to play at the same level as in St. Louis could've been a great deadline/summer asset to trade to another team with his discounted cap hit. I can certainly see the value in that move - even in a rebuild