Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

[Matt4776]

Last year it was we're going to bring back Nash and Grabner. Good veterans. Leadership for the kids. Re-sign Hayes. Sign Kovalchuk. Go after Tavares.

We did the opposite.

July 1st can't come soon enough.

 

[haohmaru]

Sure, some kids beat the odds, but the expectation here is not that 1 prospect is an early developer. If someone said that one of Chytil, Kravtsov or Miller breaks out early and becomes a first liner at 21, I could entertain that possibility, but the odds of ALL our kids becoming good before they are 21-22 are ZERO. Literally zero.

Do you know how bad the projections are? My "pessimistic" projections are actually so optimistic, they also have zero odds of happening. I granted here that 1) nobody will be a bust, not one kid; 2) I granted that nobody will be a late bloomer; 3) in fact, I granted that most will develop earlier than most NHLers and will be good by the time they are 22-23. You know the odds of that happening? ZERO. So there, even the most pessimistic scenario discussed here is too optimistic to ever happen in real life.

We are up for a bumpy rides full of busts, late bloomers, rookie mistakes, sophomore slums. Panarin, even if the cap is not an issue, will not help us win the Cup because we will not be position to contend before he is too old to make any difference.

Kakko/Hughes are likely to be impactful players next season. I won't be suprised if either/both plays every game with their new club next year. Buchnevich took huge steps 2nd half of the year. Strome had a career year. Lemieux is scratching the surface of his potential. DeAngelo took huge steps. If Chytil/Andersson improve to Chytil being top 6 and Lias centering the 3rd line - those aren't lofty expectations. Panarin would certainly make that forward group better.

The real problem the Rangers have is their back end. If all of their young forwards exceed expectations, and they can, they still can't mask what's going on with the D.

Like I said, if we're not competitive 3 years from now (4oish % into a hypothetical Panarin contract) then we're doing it wrong. Panarin at 30 won't be a dead stick out there. Come on.

 

[haohmaru]

Last year it was we're going to bring back Nash and Grabner. Good veterans. Leadership for the kids. Re-sign Hayes. Sign Kovalchuk. Go after Tavares.

We did the opposite.

July 1st can't come soon enough.

I didn't advocate for any of those things.

The only guy I wish we could've made something work with was Zuccarello as I believe he brings a lot to the table on and off the ice. But, that ship has sailed.

 

[NYR Viper]

Hanzal can just sit on LTIR and trading for Nuke...nah.

He came back and played this year. With an entire offseason of training he may want to play in which case it hurts their cap space. Even the uncertainty of him playing or not could hamstring Nill.

 

[duhmetreE]

"Panarin will be 30 by the time we're competing, he wont help. "

 

[Beacon]

The goal of a rebuilding team is to get better.

Short term or long term? Signing Theo Fleury, Kamensky and Quintal made the Rangers better in 1999-00. Fleury in particular scored 138 points in 144 games in his first 2 years here, while playing a physical game. Was that rebuilding? How about getting Lindros, Malakhov and Berard? Was that part of the point of rebuilding? In what sense is Panarin better? Because you know the old names failed, but you can still claim we don't know if signing Panarin will not lead to winning the Cup? Fleury=Lindros=Panarin, even if they are different types of players. Big names who will make ZERO difference in helping us get the Cup.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Last year it was we're going to bring back Nash and Grabner. Good veterans. Leadership for the kids. Re-sign Hayes. Sign Kovalchuk. Go after Tavares.

We did the opposite.

July 1st can't come soon enough.

1. Nash retired
2. Grabner got a big deal
3. They did re-sign hayes
4. tavares said he would not sign here
5. they may or may not have tried for kovalchuk. They wouldnt give him 3 years though.

 

[duhmetreE]

Last year it was we're going to bring back Nash and Grabner. Good veterans. Leadership for the kids. Re-sign Hayes. Sign Kovalchuk. Go after Tavares.

We did the opposite.

July 1st can't come soon enough.

Nash and Grabner were terrible wants by a few posters here.

Re-signing Hayes long-term was a bad idea? If he were signed now, it'd be at a great value for a 2C. What's the issue?

Kovalchuk would have been a short term plug. He wanted 3 years, it didn't happen.

Tavares was never a thought for whatever reason. but wanting a 40G-90pt elite center, I guess, is bad??

Apparently, wanting an elite playmaking LW is also bad? We can save the cap space for.... ??

 

[Thirty One]

"Panarin will be 30 by the time we're competing, he wont help. "

If anyone says he definitely won’t, that would be very dumb. Saying he definitely will is also dumb. The main point in waiting until you’re closer for your big external adds is you have a much better idea of what you’re getting in those key years.

 

[haohmaru]

It really isn't. They actually found higher IQ people to curse more for whatever reason.

Cursing isn't name calling. Trust me, the wife's a school psychologist. It is.

Short term or long term? Signing Theo Fleury, Kamensky and Quintal made the Rangers better in 1999-00. Fleury in particular scored 138 points in 144 games in his first 2 years here, while playing a physical game. Was that rebuilding? How about getting Lindros, Malakhov and Berard? Was that part of the point of rebuilding? In what sense is Panarin better? Because you know the old names failed, but you can still claim we don't know if signing Panarin will not lead to winning the Cup? Fleury=Lindros=Panarin, even if they are different types of players. Big names who will make ZERO difference in helping us get the Cup.

Fluery is the typical UFA mistake that the Rangers make - 30+ (he was 31) and he was only here for three years. Kamensky and Quintal aren't Panarin level. Lindros was a known health risk. Panarin isn't.

And, let's not forget, the Rangers have NEVER had the sheer quantity of quality picks that they'll have over this three year (2017, 2018, 2019) period. The dark years were building the team through free agency and supplementing with the draft. Panarin advocates are building through the draft and adding through free agency.

I'm on the fence about Panarin, but I can say that if the Rangers are really building a competitive/compending team that should be ready in 3 years, then Panarin isn't a guy that's hurting them.

 

[duhmetreE]

If anyone says he definitely won’t, that would be very dumb. Saying he definitely will is also dumb. The main point in waiting until you’re closer for your big external adds is you have a much better idea of what you’re getting in those key years.

No, saying a 80-90pt winger will help you win games, is not dumb.
Saying, he will become a potato in 3 years after signing, that's dumb.

A player like Panarin will not be available in a 'perfect timing' scenario. It works now, because of the ELCs, he fills a major need and it helps transition the team.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If anyone says he definitely won’t, that would be very dumb. Saying he definitely will is also dumb. The main point in waiting until you’re closer for your big external adds is you have a much better idea of what you’re getting in those key years.

They could just wait a year and sign Taylor Hall next summer

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd rather Panarin than Hall if given the choice.

Hall's injury history is pretty extensive.

 

[broadwayblue]

They could just wait a year and sign Taylor Hall next summer

You don't know if Hall or any of the current crop of 2020 UFA will be available. For all we know he re-ups with NJ. I'd also rather have Panarin this year vs. Hall next year.

 

[DanielBrassard]

They could just wait a year and sign Taylor Hall next summer

I'd rather sign Panarin who will be a year into his contract but the same age and is a better fit. Add in the fact that Hall might not even become a free agent.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You don't know if Hall or any of the current crop of 2020 UFA will be available. For all we know he re-ups with NJ. I'd also rather have Panarin this year vs. Hall next year.

I think it's more likely we sign Hayes and Karlsson than Panarin to be honest

 

[haohmaru]

I think it's more likely we sign Hayes and Karlsson than Panarin to be honest

So much worse. Hayes? Ugh. No thanks.

 

[duhmetreE]

They could just wait a year and sign Taylor Hall next summer

That's a big NO for me.

Inconsistent and injury concerns.. The type of player we shouldn't give a fat contract.

 

[Beacon]

Fluery is the typical UFA mistake that the Rangers make - 30+ (he was 31) and he was only here for three years. Kamensky and Quintal aren't Panarin level. Lindros was a known health risk. Panarin isn't.

Are you suggesting that if those players were a little better, the Rangers would've won the Cup or even made a good playoff run? Fleury got bad in the last year, which is what people remember. His first 3 years, he was great. In the second season, he had 76 points in 64 games. But let's say the Rangers had a better player, would it make any difference? Gretzky failed. Bringing back Messier failed. Anyone? Would prime Gretzky get the Rangers of 2000 to make a deep playoff run at least?

And, let's not forget, the Rangers have NEVER had the sheer quantity of quality picks that they'll have over this three year (2017, 2018, 2019) period.

Before signing Fleury, among others, in the summer of 1999:

7 overall in 1998
4 overall in 1999
9 overall in 1999

Then there were really good looking prospects like Burke Henry, Kloucek and Holmqvist.

But regardless, all these picks we have now will need 4-8 years to mature. Panarin will retire or be a shell of himself by the time all of the youth is ready (not the first early bloomer, but all of them).

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So much worse. Hayes? Ugh. No thanks.

We need a 2nd line center more than we need a winger

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Hayes ship has sailed.

If he was going to be extended, he would have been already.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Man, I can't wait until the playoffs are over...

 

[nyrage]

Some people have a hard time letting go of past players. You have to know when to let go. Look at the Patriots. I hate that franchise, but they know when to cut the cord. No sentimentality. It's just what can you do for us in the future and at our price.

 

[haohmaru]

We need a 2nd line center more than we need a winger

We need Chytil/Howden/Lias to become that 2nd line center and pass on 6M+ Hayes.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We need Chytil/Howden/Lias to become that 2nd line center and pass on 6M+ Hayes.

I agree. But I can see us signing Hayes this summer still. It's a position of weakness, and none of the 3 you mention can fill that role