Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXV

[Ola]

The Vancouver fanbase sounds like the Buffalo fanbase when they were peddling an injured Jack Eichel with a $10M cap hit for 4/5 first round pick assets. The Sabres were not retaining any money or taking back a contract. We saw how that deal shook out.

From my POV, Buffalo totally robbed Vegas on that deal... But time will tell.

 

[Machinehead]

Fair point. I think, also, it is speed. These players are not fast themselves and don't move the puck fast either. Too many stick handles, too slow in their stride. We need some f***ing skating coaches. Like, a lot of them. And some skills coaches. Real ones. Not Glass and Ruutu.

I saw Lundmark mentioned earlier. I always felt like that was what kept him out of the NHL as well. He was the victim of an NHL that evolved speed wise exponentially from when he was drafted to post-lockout and he just couldn't keep up. I think if he would have been drafted 10 years earlier, he would have been a regular NHLer.

100% agree. Been saying it for awhile now, this team is violently slow.

And not physically slow, they play slow. Granted, speed will never be this team's calling card with the core they have, but lots of teams with middling speed have succeeded. We have guys on the roster who possess skating ability and nobody on the roster is like, Derek Stepan irreparably slow.

The issue for me is that the Rangers don't seem to value speed in their existing package. We continue to play slow and the skating (which is very improvable) never improves.

The fact that death-slow Stepan was a great player on one of the fastest teams in the league just serves to prove that this can be managed.

 

[SA16]

From my POV, Buffalo totally robbed Vegas on that deal... But time will tell.

Buffalo easily won the deal. Vegas thinks they can win something with a 6'2" 1C? Good luck.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Buffalo easily won the deal. Vegas thinks they can win something with a 6'2" 1C? Good luck.

Lol

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think it comes down to what they feel they need more, Goalie or another position. They don’t have a ton of cap space. They also don’t have their 1st, 2nd, or 4th round picks this year. They don’t have their 2023 4th rd or their 2024 3rd rounder. So I think they have one big move to make. Unless they want to mortgage more of the future and I am not sure Sakic will do that.

I think they will want to mortgage. It's their time. They have to win while Mackinnon is being paid peanuts.

 

[RGY]

I think they will want to mortgage. It's their time. They have to win while Mackinnon is being paid peanuts.

I guess it would then come down to who’s draft picks and system would be more appealing to Philly. Who do they think will have the higher picks over the next two years, NYR or COL. Along with the prospects in the system. Not that I am advocating getting into a bidding war for Giroux

 

[McRanger92]

So I have already gotten like two negative responses and probably more feel the same way. Im not going to attack or belittle. Quite frankly, I am putting perspective into what buying means. Im also putting into perspective the fact that the same players most people on this board want will have the highest prices because they are the cream of this year's tdl crop.
If your preffered moves are small and you want the team to grow organically, that's fine. However, we know two things: you cant keep all your young players and dolan made the message quite clear. I dont care how you feel about this team's chances, dolan and company most likely feel that a lethal pp with unreal goaltending can be bolstered further by depth additions. Normally, I would say wait and see.

This is not the case right now. You are in a unique position where you can keep laf, kakko, miller, schneider, otthman and still have assets to add. Next year will quite literally be cap hell. This year is their best chance at flexibility and if they add heavy, I dont blame them. There is a lot of parity in the league and if you can manage the cap, that slight advantage can help you go further than most think.

Our top six is not the issue when we have our 2nd and 1st overall filling a spot alongside our vets. The bottom six is. Obviously, since they are young, laf and kakko will be inconsitent, make mistakes, and probably do some head scratching choices.

Keep in mind we are (if memory serves) the 3rd youngest team in the league. You think they'll do well in the playoffs? They will get slaughtered by inexperience. Shesty might steal a game or two but you need hungry players who came close to winning it all because the bottom six is monumental in the playoffs. Fwiw goodrow played 2nd line minutes for tb in the playoffs. Imagine him on a line with pavelski and lekohnen? That'd be formidable. I dont even think our 4th will be that good but 3 lines and shesty should make up for that.

Youre not crazy. The Rangers should be buying significantly, as it appears they will, because the circumstances dictate that they should. They wont be moving any long term core pieces(Laf/Kakko/Miller/Schneider/Othmann) as you mentioned, and the cap situation presents an opportunity that they wont have again during this cores contending years. Nils+Krav can get you a very good player to add to the mix over the next 2-3 years. Adding a rental forward on top of that with lesser picks and prospects also makes sense. Deal with Strome in the offseason because as much as I am in favor of extending him, he's not a guy i see at imperative to keep to win a Cup.

 

[bhamill]

Youre not crazy. The Rangers should be buying significantly, as it appears they will, because the circumstances dictate that they should. They wont be moving any long term core pieces(Laf/Kakko/Miller/Schneider/Othmann) as you mentioned, and the cap situation presents an opportunity that they wont have again during this cores contending years. Nils+Krav can get you a very good player to add to the mix over the next 2-3 years. Adding a rental forward on top of that with lesser picks and prospects also makes sense. Deal with Strome in the offseason because as much as I am in favor of extending him, he's not a guy i see at imperative to keep to win a Cup.

What they SHOULD be doing is a matter of opinion. As is saying it appears they will be buying significantly. I see no evidence of that whatsoever. The NYR are tied to every available name player constantly. If there was fire with all that smoke the MSG would be burned to the ground hundreds of times over. The cap they have is only for a half a season. A lot of us just feel it would be better used to acquire assets that could be used along with existing ones to hunt a top shelf long term piece in a position of need. IMO and most around the NHL, the NYR are not a real contender for the Cup. A mid term piece and a rental will not put them close to a Cup this year. And then we have to clear cap space for the mid term piece next year. It also possibly diminishes the playoff ice time and valuable experience for our developing young players. To me that is both poor asset management and counter productive to building a true long term contender.
But I’m not going to pretend I know which way they will go. Like the rest of us I only have my hopes. Haha.

 

[Pidto Files]

QUOTE="Paul Padovano, post: 182685261, member: 335737"]Me neither. That's sufficient. The ignorant Xenophobic garbage is foul enough.[/QUOTE]

According to Dr. Fauci, you can get AIDS by reading the HF Boards trade threads….

 

[mas0764]

Youre not crazy. The Rangers should be buying significantly, as it appears they will, because the circumstances dictate that they should. They wont be moving any long term core pieces(Laf/Kakko/Miller/Schneider/Othmann) as you mentioned, and the cap situation presents an opportunity that they wont have again during this cores contending years. Nils+Krav can get you a very good player to add to the mix over the next 2-3 years. Adding a rental forward on top of that with lesser picks and prospects also makes sense. Deal with Strome in the offseason because as much as I am in favor of extending him, he's not a guy i see at imperative to keep to win a Cup.

So two years has somehow morphed into three years, what three year player are we getting for Nils and Kravtsov, and why shouldn't we add a bit more and just get a young player who will be here indefinitely then, as the opposition in this rental debate keeps clamoring for? Because Nils + Kravtsov + 1st + something else small is basically a Jack Eichel or Rick Nash package.

The pushback on this isn't trading Nils and Kravtsov, it's trading Nils and Kravtsov for JT Miller who isn't all that great, is already 29 by time he gets here basically, and isn't affordable in not 6 months but 18 months instead; meanwhile our core of Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox, Shesterkin, and the kids are all here no less than 36 months and mostly way more.

Just go get the long term piece already for that price. No one is complaining if Nils + Kravtsov + 1st + Robertson was sent out for Eichel (which would have then meant Trouba or Kreider sent somewhere else, but they would be bringing assets back to replenish, then, most likely, though not to the same degree).

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I guess it would then come down to who’s draft picks and system would be more appealing to Philly. Who do they think will have the higher picks over the next two years, NYR or COL. Along with the prospects in the system. Not that I am advocating getting into a bidding war for Giroux

I just can't see Claude Giroux, who loves Philly, making the Flyers trade him to NYR, even if he wants to stay close to home. I think Colorado is best of both worlds for player (best chance at winning) and organization (doesn't have to see him try to win with a team that's a big time rival). They are also like I said earlier going for broke. I think it makes the most sense.

 

[JimmyG89]

The fact that death-slow Stepan was a great player on one of the fastest teams in the league just serves to prove that this can be managed.

One thing about those rosters was the great speed on the wings, which this team does not possess. Hagelin and Kreider were top 5 fastest skaters in the league at that time (Kreider is still up there) and guys like Dorsett, Pouliot, and Zuccarello were a notch below that. This team doesn't possess that speed level.

I do think this is what keeps Chytil from going to another level. He has the size and skating to get things done, but he doesn't use his size. Even Gauthier doesn't use his size enough. I know that seems to be the last part these bigger players that are young get as an NHLer, but this team just needs one of them to figure that out.

With Chytil, I think a big part is just setting him on the wing. Just let him go out there and use his speed down the outside, stretch other teams out. The past 4 years it made sense to play him at center. He is young, big, and is a center, but the team was not contending. Now, contention means they need to maximize this roster and Chytil on the wing does that for him. Either let Goodrow take the 3C role or trade for one. If they actually leave the top 6 as is, a 3C and a 3W are what they go after:

Kreider-Zib-Laf
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Goodrow-3C-3W
Hunt/Rooney/Reaves/Gauthier

 

[jay from jersey]

How long you’re going to use D+ in your reference? Both defenseman made it to the AHL at the same time and as noted - barely half year apart. Your post was fine without noting draft year difference.

‘We use D +1’. Nonsense. How many times has chytil been given the leeway In arguments cause he was was almost in the following years draft???
6 months apart isn’t really an age difference, Especially not for kids who can even legally drink yet and are still going thru puberty and still growing....
No one is weighing that Schneider isn’t further ahead developmentally atm, as well as more mature it seems.
But calling Schneider a top 4 D after 2 injury fill ins is a bit of a stretch as well.
Schneider is fantastic, happy to have him, has a bright future..
Robertson has demonstrated some very slick plays in the AHL as a growing kid. He’s still not as polished as Schneider is to date, but he’s got big league talent once he fills out.
He may never be as good a player as Schneider, but he’s not on some island, a tier or 2 below him on talent either.
Schneider will more then likely be the more physical in your face player, whereas Robertson is more in the Staal mold.. positionally sound, big and rangey with a huge reach...
The caveat is that Robertson has shown he’s very good at moving the puck. Zone break outs/first pass, etc.
His offense will prob never be what it was in the WHL, but he’s gona be a damn good big 2-way defender.

 

[bhamill]

‘We use D +1’. Nonsense. How many times has chytil been given the leeway In arguments cause he was was almost in the following years draft???
6 months apart isn’t really an age difference, Especially not for kids who can even legally drink yet and are still going thru puberty

Well, as far as physical maturity, you are right it’s not a huge deal. It’s more a matter of the individual. But even two days can be a big difference developmentally as a birthday cutoff can determine the league/level of completion/coaching/resources a player has access to. And that DEFINITELY plays into development.
That being said, Robertson being behind Schneider in development, despite Post D season or age, does NOT mean he has any less ceiling. It’s just a matter of not being as sure a thing to come close to it as Schneider. I really like Robertson’s chances for what it’s worth.

 

[jay from jersey]

Well, as far as physical maturity, you are right it’s not a huge deal. But even two days can be a big difference developmentally as a birthday cutoff can determine the league/level of completion/coaching/resources a player has access to. And that DEFINITELY plays into development.
That being said, Robertson being behind Schneider in development, despite Post D season or age, does NOT mean he has any less ceiling. It’s just a matter of not being as sure a thing to come close to it as Schneider. I really like Robertson’s chances if that means anything.

This. I just think he gets lost by most and a bit underrated with Jones/Lindgren/Miller on the left.
He’s a really big kid who moves the puck better then expected. Def a kid id rather hang on to... hopefully over the offseason he adds a bit of weight and gets more comfortably physically and on the Defensive side of things.
I’d expect him to start 1LD in Hartford next season, and I wager he’ll have an excellent year.

 

[McRanger92]

What they SHOULD be doing is a matter of opinion. As is saying it appears they will be buying significantly. I see no evidence of that whatsoever. The NYR are tied to every available name player constantly. If there was fire with all that smoke the MSG would be burned to the ground hundreds of times over. The cap they have is only for a half a season. A lot of us just feel it would be better used to acquire assets that could be used along with existing ones to hunt a top shelf long term piece in a position of need. IMO and most around the NHL, the NYR are not a real contender for the Cup. A mid term piece and a rental will not put them close to a Cup this year. And then we have to clear cap space for the mid term piece next year. It also possibly diminishes the playoff ice time and valuable experience for our developing young players. To me that is both poor asset management and counter productive to building a true long term contender.
But I’m not going to pretend I know which way they will go. Like the rest of us I only have my hopes. Haha.

Of course its my opinion, we're on an online message board, I didn't think i needed to clarify that. Similarly, saying they arent true contenders is your opinion and a completely arbitrary statement. The fact is that they are tied for 4th most points in the entire league at the All-star break. They seem like a contender to me.

 

[jay from jersey]

Fair point. I think, also, it is speed. These players are not fast themselves and don't move the puck fast either. Too many stick handles, too slow in their stride. We need some f***ing skating coaches. Like, a lot of them. And some skills coaches. Real ones. Not Glass and Ruutu.

I saw Lundmark mentioned earlier. I always felt like that was what kept him out of the NHL as well. He was the victim of an NHL that evolved speed wise exponentially from when he was drafted to post-lockout and he just couldn't keep up. I think if he would have been drafted 10 years earlier, he would have been a regular NHLer.

I honestly hope LaF goes to the Kakko school of leg training in the offseason....
I think if LaF shows the growth kakko had in his legs to start off this year people are going to be floored at how good of a player Laffy is gonna be.
That and he should takes Stromes spot on PP1 permanently next season.... whether strome is here on not...
I just don’t see it happening if Stromes still here

 

[Vitto79]

I like toughness in Lindgren , Trouba , Schneider on D . Should keep that for a playoff run

D isn’t the issue it’s getting experience
Just let Nemeth be the 6th W Jones as backup

trades for F only

 

[CLW]

I like toughness in Lindgren , Trouba , Schneider on D . Should keep that for a playoff run

D isn’t the issue it’s getting experience
Just let Nemeth be the 6th W Jones as backup

trades for F only

You can't play this version of Nemeth. He's a disaster.

 

[McRanger92]

So two years has somehow morphed into three years, what three year player are we getting for Nils and Kravtsov, and why shouldn't we add a bit more and just get a young player who will be here indefinitely then, as the opposition in this rental debate keeps clamoring for? Because Nils + Kravtsov + 1st + something else small is basically a Jack Eichel or Rick Nash package.

The pushback on this isn't trading Nils and Kravtsov, it's trading Nils and Kravtsov for JT Miller who isn't all that great, is already 29 by time he gets here basically, and isn't affordable in not 6 months but 18 months instead; meanwhile our core of Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox, Shesterkin, and the kids are all here no less than 36 months and mostly way more.

Just go get the long term piece already for that price. No one is complaining if Nils + Kravtsov + 1st + Robertson was sent out for Eichel (which would have then meant Trouba or Kreider sent somewhere else, but they would be bringing assets back to replenish, then, most likely, though not to the same degree).

How did I know you were going to reply to my post? Its like the bat signal. Not once did I mention JT Miller (who at this point is criminally underrated by some here) but he's 28 year old all situations player who has scored at a higher rate over the past 3 years than Nash did the 3 years leading up to his trade to the Rangers (he was also 28). Its all semantics, but what "Eichel" type player is out there? The team cant really afford another big contract, so players like Miller are the in ballpark they need to play in

 

[Hire Sather]

Did you get cut off or something? A 22 who’s played full time in the NHL for the last 3 seasons is not an NHL player???

I did not. I'm not sure he's still in the NHL 2 years from now.

Could be better suited for playing in Europe.

I could be wrong.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Any info whether Rangers will be practicing this week, or is it a complete off week?

 

[McRanger92]

I just can't see Claude Giroux, who loves Philly, making the Flyers trade him to NYR, even if he wants to stay close to home. I think Colorado is best of both worlds for player (best chance at winning) and organization (doesn't have to see him try to win with a team that's a big time rival). They are also like I said earlier going for broke. I think it makes the most sense.

Colorado/Carolina/Florida are the 3 teams that i think will probably bet the house on the deadline and goal all-in. Rangers are a tier below that where they need to make a couple moves but wont hamstring themselves

 

[Mac n Gs]

Any info whether Rangers will be practicing this week, or is it a complete off week?

I believe Gallant mentioned they’d be back to practicing on Friday this week

 

[Vitto79]

You can't play this version of Nemeth. He's a disaster.

he may have personal issues let’s hope he’s ok after the break . He’s signed so he’s playing.