Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[DanielBrassard]

Clearly is not the right word. A better choice would be 'odds are.' Odds are, the contract, both amount and term, will end up as a failed signing.

What large FA contract has worked out for the team in recent years?

What's the definition of "Working out"?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

What's the definition of "Working out"?

Interpret it how you like. Which major FA signing in recent years would you consider a full-on success?

And I'm not talking about chain events like Gomez or Gaborik.

 

[Bob Richards]

One of the Snickers commercials with Danny Trejo. He puts a hand axe through a table. Carol Brady says you're not you when you're hungry.

Acquiring a player to get scratched for Tanner Glass is similar to putting a hand axe through a table. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad lineups chasing more bad lineups. You can count on one hand the number of players who deserved to be scratched over Tanner Glass. Daniel Paille was more bad than good. That’s about it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Interpret it how you like. Which major FA signing in recent years would you consider a full-on success?

And I'm not talking about chain events like Gomez or Gaborik.

In what way are past signings linked to potential future signings?

 

[RGY]

Elite player like Panarin becomes available who will not cost you assets to acquire. But dont sign him because there is a risk that he may not “workout”.

 

[NYRKING30]

One of the Snickers commercials with Danny Trejo. He puts a hand axe through a table. Carol Brady says you're not you when you're hungry.

Acquiring a player to get scratched for Tanner Glass is similar to putting a hand axe through a table. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad lineups chasing more bad lineups. You can count on one hand the number of players who deserved to be scratched over Tanner Glass. Daniel Paille was more bad than good. That’s about it.

A+ for effort!

 

[NYRKING30]

People that want Panarin, you still want him at a 10 or 11 million dollar cap hit or does your tune change?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What's the definition of "Working out"?

Not directed at me, but I'd say 5 years of maintenance of current level of play with at least 2-3 of them coming with a legitimately competitive team.

Some of that is out of his control, which is why they shouldn't sign him. He could be great and the signing could still be a failure.

 

[haohmaru]

Elite player like Panarin becomes available who will not cost you assets to acquire. But dont sign him because there is a risk that he may not “workout”.

Without knowing term/clauses, I can't fully get behind signing Panarin.

That being said, all of these arguments saying that we won't be in contention for "years" just don't make sense to me. Did anyone see the Islanders being a hundred point team this year? Arizona vying for the playoffs despite a soul crushing amount of man games lost and a dearth of talent? Boston with the 2nd most points in the league? Carolina? St. Louis coming back from the hole they were in?

No one has ANY idea what this roster will be this October or the October after that. More and more I like the idea of signing Panarin (and losing nothing other than cap space) and trading Kreider for a 1st, prospect, +. You get a better player and assets back. If nothing else, this coach gets the team to play hard and I don't think the Rangers will ever be the 31st team in the league in the standings.

EK, though, is a whole other story. I'm not certain he'll be healthy enough throughout whatever monster deal he gets.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Interpret it how you like. Which major FA signing in recent years would you consider a full-on success?

And I'm not talking about chain events like Gomez or Gaborik.

Off the top of my head: Gaborik, Chara, Briere, Elias, Suter, Campbell, Hossa, Parise is borderline, Keith Yandle so far, That's just from UFA's though, not counting guys who signed extensions who were UFA age, and some of those contracts are not even possible anymore so that makes it even tougher to compare. I'll try to compile a list later.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The message is dont sign high end free agents ever apparently. Clearly Panarin would be a failed signing because people say so.

The message is add them to an establish core who’s already carrying the team, not just add them because they’re there

 

[NYRKING30]

Without knowing term/clauses, I can't fully get behind signing Panarin.

That being said, all of these arguments saying that we won't be in contention for "years" just don't make sense to me. Did anyone see the Islanders being a hundred point team this year? Arizona vying for the playoffs despite a soul crushing amount of man games lost and a dearth of talent? Boston with the 2nd most points in the league? Carolina? St. Louis coming back from the hole they were in?

No one has ANY idea what this roster will be this October or the October after that. More and more I like the idea of signing Panarin (and losing nothing other than cap space) and trading Kreider for a 1st, prospect, +. You get a better player and assets back. If nothing else, this coach gets the team to play hard and I don't think the Rangers will ever be the 31st team in the league in the standings.

EK, though, is a whole other story. I'm not certain he'll be healthy enough throughout whatever monster deal he gets.

The Islanders will come back down to earth next season after being first round fodder, just like the devils last year. Arizona would be there if they hadn't had all those injuries, the west isn't deep anymore. Why is Boston with the 2nd most points in the league hard to believe? We've been told for years Carolina is a playoff team if they had legitimate goaltending, so here they are. STL shouldn't have been as bad as they were in January, a lot of blame there to go on Jake Allen. My goal isn't just to be 1st and 2nd round contenders, and I don't think its the goal of the organization's either. Rangers are much, much closer to being the 31st team in the league then the 16th. Next year COULD be that year, they are certified bottom 5 bad.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Not directed at me, but I'd say 5 years of maintenance of current level of play with at least 2-3 of them coming with a legitimately competitive team.

Some of that is out of his control, which is why they shouldn't sign him. He could be great and the signing could still be a failure.

That's the problem with some of these discussions, it's totally subjective. I personally wouldn't consider that to be a failure of a signing. I'd prefer to look solely at the contribution of the player.

 

[TheTakedown]

I like some of these ideas with a not-so-hard cap... My thought is that the league needs to axe guaranteed contracts... or moreso, reconstruct them. Guys can have X years guaranteed and then flex options to keep the players. The league also needs to allow player contract restructuring like the NFL does, obviously on contracts you restructure you can't just buy them out (or the buyouts towards later restructured years would be really bad cap hits)... I also like the idea of a true soft cap, like the ones that the MLB uses... Idk, just some food for thought.

Lowering Contract limits is not the solution. What the league needs to do is come up with a system that makes it *LESS BENEFICIAL* to hand out long term deals that teams cannot ride out in their entirety. Buyout calculations need to change based on age and performance as well as the current AAV. I also like the idea of using current year salary -- that would give you flexibility over specific years...

Then again, the AAV is there because Bettman and Co want it----AAV punishes you for the same amount through all the years... idk, I just feel like good GMs could do a VERY good job if yo used current salary numbers

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

What in gods name is happening here...

I need to know what RangerBoy looks like, I think it'll give me a better understanding of his post content

 

[NYRKING30]

I like some of these ideas with a not-so-hard cap... My thought is that the league needs to axe guaranteed contracts... or moreso, reconstruct them. Guys can have X years guaranteed and then flex options to keep the players. The league also needs to allow player contract restructuring like the NFL does, obviously on contracts you restructure you can't just buy them out (or the buyouts towards later restructured years would be really bad cap hits)... I also like the idea of a true soft cap, like the ones that the MLB uses... Idk, just some food for thought.



What in gods name is happening here...

I need to know what RangerBoy looks like, I think it'll give me a better understanding of his post content

If they attempted that, I'd be willing to wager that we would at the very least lose more than a year of hockey as the PA would never allow that and rightfully so. The Mlb one is much more realistic and hopefully something like that can be done in the future.

 

[RangerBoy]

Giannone has to be the dumbest mother f***er around.

Giannone and Maloney were discussing Brady Skjei and who is the right partner for him. He brought up Erik Karlsson in the podcast with Dave Maloney. John thought it is a great idea. Maloney was like no. He really wanted to say are you f***ing crazy. Erik Karlsson?

14:21



Maloney brings up his discussion with Gorton regarding free agency from last Wednesday in Boston. I mentioned that conversation on Friday. Gorton said he would look for the right veteran players/character players at the right price who can teach/lead the young guys by example. Gorton believes in his young players. Dave doesn't believe Karlsson or a Karlsson type would make any difference now and you are not moving forward with that player.

Karlsson type is Panarin.

Smart man that Dave Maloney.

 

[Thirty One]

What in gods name is happening here...

I need to know what RangerBoy looks like, I think it'll give me a better understanding of his post content

 

[Bob Richards]

I like some of these ideas with a not-so-hard cap... My thought is that the league needs to axe guaranteed contracts... or moreso, reconstruct them. Guys can have X years guaranteed and then flex options to keep the players. The league also needs to allow player contract restructuring like the NFL does, obviously on contracts you restructure you can't just buy them out (or the buyouts towards later restructured years would be really bad cap hits)... I also like the idea of a true soft cap, like the ones that the MLB uses... Idk, just some food for thought.

Not only will the NHLPA not do that but they also shouldn't because its a terrible idea that gives owners even more power.

NFL non-guaranteed contracts are terrible and archaic. If they want to alleviate cap problems, stop making the salary cap so unforgiving.

Instead of finding small ways to poach money off of players, make the owners loosen the belt a few spots. They have the room to do so.

 

[NYRKING30]

Also the NFL is entirely different with the injuries as the is the biggest reason for non guaranteed contracts.

 

[haohmaru]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

Yeah, um, no.

Grabner. Pouliot. Stralman. Straka. How far back do you want to go? Gretzky. Graves. Hedberg. Nilsson. Nylander. Naslund. Biron. Zuccarello.

More swings and misses than hits? Sure. No question.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The right partner for Skjei is Shea Weber.

 

[haohmaru]

The right partner for Skjei is Shea Weber.

The right partner for Skjei is on whatever team we trade him to.

 

[Bob Richards]

The right partner for Skjei is Shea Weber.

Being able to say Brady Skjei Weber is the kind of hyper efficiency broadcasters dream about.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Dave also said that the ideal partner for Skjei is Adam McQuaid. He's so smart.

 

[NYRKING30]

Yeah, um, no.

Grabner. Pouliot. Stralman. Straka. How far back do you want to go? Gretzky. Graves. Hedberg. Nilsson. Nylander. Naslund. Biron. Zuccarello.

More swings and misses than hits? Sure. No question.

I could be wrong but I think he meant big time names and money/years.