Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I couldn't disagree more. Let GM's make their own mistakes. At the least, I could see an argument for 6/7 but 4/5? Nah. Stupid GM's can't do stupid things and smart GM's can't take advantage of those stupid GM's. It takes the creativity out of being a GM and makes the game about who gets luckiest in the draft.

When every big contract ends up being a mistake there’s a huge problem.

Do you think they should have kept the 10+ year deals around too?

If there wasn’t such a hard cap I’d see what you’re saying but the complete and utter lack of flexibility/cap f***ing contraxts with term is why the NHL is boring with trades in comparison to the NBA and NFL. It’s tough to swap fourth liners because of the cap, let alone make a blockbuster trade.

 

[True Blue]

You're fixated on Panarin... This has nothing to do with Panarin

Then what does this have to do with? Take out Panarin and insert any big UFA name you want, and at THIS point, the view is the same. Not the right time or place.

We have 5 picks in the top 2 rounds. We will be overloaded with assets after this draft.

You need more as you have no idea of what they will develop into. And the chance of hitting a home run with all 5 picks in this year's first two rounds are very low.

 

[DanielBrassard]

When every big contract ends up being a mistake there’s a huge problem.

Do you think they should have kept the 10+ year deals around too?

If there wasn’t such a hard cap I’d see what you’re saying but the complete and utter lack of flexibility/cap ****ing contraxts with term is why the NHL is boring with trades in comparison to the NBA and NFL. It’s tough to swap fourth liners because of the cap, let alone make a blockbuster trade.

I agree, I think the league would be much more interesting as far as trades and signings if the contract limit was 5 years or so. Less of a risk for GM's and FO's that a player will collapse on the back-end of the deal and if they do a buyout or riding out the end of a contract won't be so brutal.

 

[Gardner McKay]

When every big contract ends up being a mistake there’s a huge problem.

Do you think they should have kept the 10+ year deals around too?

If there wasn’t such a hard cap I’d see what you’re saying but the complete and utter lack of flexibility/cap ****ing contraxts with term is why the NHL is boring with trades in comparison to the NBA and NFL. It’s tough to swap fourth liners because of the cap, let alone make a blockbuster trade.

No I don't because there is almost no chance a player plays out a 15 year deal.

The issue at hand isn't contracts and shortening the contracts would just be another band aid on the real problem, the cap itself. They need to get rid of the hard cap. But while are still under a hard cap, I want to see GM's like Chiarelli continue to make mistakes. Smart GM's aren't handing out those deals anymore.

I'd be alright dropping it to 6 and 7. I think 4 and 5 is too drastic, IMO.

 

[Bob Richards]

Wouldn’t shorter term limits mean higher cap hits anyway

Wouldn’t that cut money unless it was squeezed into a now smaller window. NBA players have less term security than a hockey player but make about a burjillion more in salary.

 

[SA16]

Wouldn’t shorter term limits mean higher cap hits anyway

Wouldn’t that cut money unless it was squeezed into a now smaller window. NBA players have less term security than a hockey player but make about a burjillion more in salary.

Yes. Shorter contracts will just drive AAVs up which will give teams less flexibility under the cap and make it even harder for them to keep key players.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

We don't have enough assets? Really?

We have 5 picks in the top 2 rounds. We will be overloaded with assets after this draft.

Really. The pipeline at any level isn’t exactly flush with talent at any position. It may seem that way after how barren it’s been, but it doesn’t really stack up to the teams that have been cycling in players while they’re contending.

And you’re overlooking the fact that the NHL draft isn’t the NFL draft, those 5 picks all have vastly different values and expectations for them.

 

[brians1128]

Yes. Shorter contracts will just drive AAVs up which will give teams less flexibility under the cap and make it even harder for them to keep key players.

I think the biggest problem with contracts hasn't been the huge UFA deals, its the kids coming off of ELC's and getting paid like UFA's. The power has shifted quite a bit from the GM's having the leverage over RFA years to now the player and agents having it. Im not saying its right or wrong but you cant have both huge UFA contract players and huge RFA contracts. Kane and Toews got huge 10.5m aav contracts after delivering 3 cups. They deserved them, even though now those contracts hamper the team from icing a team full of depth that led to them winning the cups, but I will take 3 cups any day then suffer over mediocracy.

 

[Off Sides]

I'd be fine with higher AAV in a trade off for shorter term, yet I think the better solution probably is to allow teams to pay the player more in the earlier ages, then allow for that cap hit to drop as he ages.

I never really loved the AAV idea, I think a better system can be worked around whatever that player salary/bonuses are for that year, that is his cap hit per year.

Still need to disallow the total dummy 1M years at the ends of the contracts but to use Panarin for example,

He is looking for ~11Mx7 =77M total

Why not just have the first 5 years be like 14M and the last two be like 4M each ~78M total. And have the cap hit match per year.

He ends up on a "in his prime really good UFA contract" for 5, then when it's expected he drops off, so does his pay and cap hit.

Would have to guard against buyouts, retirement, and LTIR being the back door out, yet they could make some stipulations about not allowing cap relief for certain stuff while making the min salary in those back end years both be worth the player staying for it and the team not seeing a disaster should things go wrong.

I don't know, I have not put much thought into it, just seems like attaching a general averaged cap hit to a player who is expected to be a very different player from beginning of contract to the end seems kind of odd to me.

 

[RangerBoy]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

 

[Thirty One]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

You have a very unique way of bringing up a point.

 

[Bob Richards]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

This should be a slam dunk HFNYR meme

 

[duhmetreE]

Really. The pipeline at any level isn’t exactly flush with talent at any position. It may seem that way after how barren it’s been, but it doesn’t really stack up to the teams that have been cycling in players while they’re contending.

And you’re overlooking the fact that the NHL draft isn’t the NFL draft, those 5 picks all have vastly different values and expectations for them.

The job is maintaining the prospect pool. Not selling off picks and prospects for rentals. Having kids step in when needed. We don't have the 'elites' yet.. hence my original post

At this point, we're no where near my original post.

 

[duhmetreE]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

Are you meming? or serious?

 

[McRanger]

You have a very unique way of bringing up a point.

I always understand things better when Tiffany Haddish explains them.

 

[Fitzy]

One of the Groupon commercials with Tiffany Haddish. She is sitting near pool. She says if you’re not using Groupon, you might as well throw your money into the pool.

Signing a free agent is similar to throwing your money into the pool. A team doesn’t get any return on their investment. More bad money chasing more bad money. You can count on one hand the number of good free agent contracts signed by the Rangers. Gabby was more good than bad. That’s about it.

Straka
Nylander
Gaborik
Prospal
Grabner
Stralman
Rozsival(The first time)

versus

Drury
Redden
Gomez
Richards

I feel like the message here is to buy low on free agents, rather than high. We got a lot of good players for cheap coming off of bad/injured seasons.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Straka
Nylander
Gaborik
Prospal
Grabner
Stralman
Rozsival(The first time)

versus

Drury
Redden
Gomez
Richards

I feel like the message here is to buy low on free agents, rather than high. We got a lot of good players for cheap coming off of bad/injured seasons.

I think the message should be, don't sign mediocre players (Drury) to long-term UFA deals or guys who are 31 before they even play a single game in your uniform (Richards/Redden). Gomez led our team in scoring both seasons he was here and also got us our #1 defenseman for 8 seasons so I don't know how that was a bad signing. Redden is weird, he wasn't as bad as people made him out to be but was still an overpayment for sure

And Gaborik's AAV under an 83M cap hit would be equal to a 10.956M cap hit. The years were buy-low but the AAV was fair market value considering he came off a season of 17 games played.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You have a very unique way of bringing up a point.

It’s like a robot trying to figure out how to communicate.

“She is sitting near pool. Human pool”

 

[Off Sides]

Had the Rangers signed and kept Gaborik for 7 years, I don't think people would be using that contract as an example of a good one.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The chain reaction of the Gaborik signing might be even better than the Gomez one

Get two 40 goal seasons, trade for Brassard+, get some amazing moments out of Brass, trade Brassard for Zibanejad

GOAT

 

[RGY]

The message is dont sign high end free agents ever apparently. Clearly Panarin would be a failed signing because people say so.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Had the Rangers signed and kept Gaborik for 7 years, I don't think people would be using that contract as an example of a good one.

Those people would be wrong.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hypothetical time... Complete rebuild of the defense...

Hajek Karlsson
Lindgren Trouba
Staal ADA
Rykov Keane

 

[Ola]

I think the biggest problem with contracts hasn't been the huge UFA deals, its the kids coming off of ELC's and getting paid like UFA's. The power has shifted quite a bit from the GM's having the leverage over RFA years to now the player and agents having it. Im not saying its right or wrong but you cant have both huge UFA contract players and huge RFA contracts. Kane and Toews got huge 10.5m aav contracts after delivering 3 cups. They deserved them, even though now those contracts hamper the team from icing a team full of depth that led to them winning the cups, but I will take 3 cups any day then suffer over mediocracy.

In a way I kind of like that though, keeping those studs cheap forever really premiers tanking.

And those kids doesn’t have any leverage whatsoever. What are they going to do, go to he KHL and play until they are what 27?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

The message is dont sign high end free agents ever apparently. Clearly Panarin would be a failed signing because people say so.

Clearly is not the right word. A better choice would be 'odds are.' Odds are, the contract, both amount and term, will end up as a failed signing.

What large FA contract has worked out for the team in recent years?