Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[SA16]

In the actual f'k, we are waiting for our top ceiling guys - Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, our top pick in 2020, all of them still teenagers - to at least come close to their prime so we know what we got before we start giving up assets and paying UFA salaries. Please, no more Gretzky, Fleury, Lindros, Bure, etc.

I wouldn't take any UFA (and Trouba will get a near-UFA salary since he's only cost-controlled for one more season) for any money and for any trade because all it does to this team is drop us from the first half a dozen picks in the 2020 draft to somewhere near the bottom of the lottery. That's the worst possible scenario. At least if you suck and get Kakko, you know you took a step forward. You suck a little less and get Dellandrea, how exactly did you move closer to the Cup?

So what we are waiting for is our prospects to break out and get huge second contracts thereby making it very hard for us to fill a team around them with quality players as opposed to going for it early where they will be very cheap and potentially provide huge surplus value?

 

[LORDE]

But what about immediate gratification? It's almost as if finishing 20th best next year instead of 28th best is less important to you than winning the Cup in 5 years.

How do you figure? I'd give just about anything to win a cup in 5 years (or less, or more). Including watching another year of awful hockey as just had.

We've never done this type of rebuild and I am a believer that there's something at the end of all this suffering. Maybe that's the optimist in me (something I've never been accused of prior).

The only way this doesn't work is if we rush it and screw ourselves.

And for the 2nd time today I missed the sarcasm. Sorry (this time due to work... ironic)

 

[offdacrossbar]

I have been saying for months and will repeat again; there is no rationale for not buying Smith out this summer unless someone is willing to take on half (good luck with that) of his contract. None. He will not be playing top six defense on this team again and in the future it makes little sense to keep him around as a fourth line winger. Saves over $3MM on the cap this year which can be put to use elsewhere. Bigger hit next year but still less than his contract if he stayed. Thanks for playing Brendan, drive home safely.

I think they try to rehabilitate Shattenkirk one more time before giving up on him. And I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't talked to Staal about accepting a trade in the offseason. At 50%, I do believe there would be a market for Staal.

i dont think smith plays another game for us. hes bought out.

agree on 22. i think he comes to camp in shape and healthy and bounce back. whats his upside though ? 2nd line guy and PP2? not enough. more like, 3rd line minutes and PP2 time, i think he has a role. hes expensive but not much we can do unless theres a taker.

staal is the problem. hes the albatross. a 3rd pair of staal/shatty would be painful in more ways than just the $$ invested (wasted).

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

For help on offense? I absolutely think he or Kylington are available in the right deal. Think Valimaki is the only young D off limits there.

Yes, but Andersson is the only RD on the "right" (pun intended) side of 25.

 

[SA16]

I cannot understand wanting to buyout Smith regardless of whether you are on team go for it next year or on team keep tanking for the foreseeable future.

If you want to win you should want to keep Smith since he's actually good.

If you want to lose why would you care about the cap next year and want to add on two years of a dead cap hit?

 

[bobbop]

Staal's problem is his contract, not his performance. He's better than most around here concede and he could be a valuable third pair defender if his minutes were properly managed. If he was making $2MM, we would love him. There's a place for him somewhere in this league. The off season is the time to move him.

 

[Edge]

I think if we are assuming any player being brought in is going to totally revamp the defense on their own we are going to be disappointed. A guy like Trouba would be paid, for sure. But he most likely is not going to be getting absurd money like the Doughty's or Subban's of the world. At even $7m, that's barely average for a top-pairing defenseman RIGHT NOW, let alone if the cap keeps increasing.

The questions become, as always:
What is the price to acquire him?
Do the Rangers view him as someone who can help transition this defense into something that resembles a solid NHL group?

I think people get too caught up in #1 or #2, or #3 designations on defense. Trouba is a guy who can log a lot of minutes in all situations. The Rangers have a hole on the right side for the foreseeable future in terms of a guy who plays like him and yet they have a ton of depth on the left side.

Re-allocating Skjei's cap hit to Trouba would suit this team very well moving forward considering where the depth of the organization currently sits.

This team has had A LOT of dead cap space on defense for more tan a few years (Girardi, Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith). I'm more concerned with jettisoning those guys than I am paying Trouba market value through his prime years starting at 25 years old.

Forget about revamping the defense for a second. Forget about #1, #2 or #3 designations. Forget about deployment or usage. Forget contract. Forget cost to acquire.

Right now, this guy has missed nearly 20 percent of his team's games over this career. That means over a six year career, he's actually missed more than entire season's worth of games.

Before I even get into the other stuff, I've gotta see if this guy can consistently stay in a lineup.

If he can't even do that with a reasonable degree of hope, the other stuff is going to take a back seat pretty quick.

 

[Tawnos]

Forget about revamping the defense for a second. Forget about #1, #2 or #3 designations. Forget about deployment or usage. Forget contract. Forget cost to acquire.

Right now, this guy has missed nearly 20 percent of his teams over this career. That means over a six year career, he's actually missed more than entire season's worth of games.

Before I even get into the other stuff, I've gotta see if this guy can consistently stay in a lineup.

If he can't even do that with a reasonable degree of hope, the other stuff is going to take a back seat pretty quick.

What's going to convince you he can? Something like playing 82 games in a season?

 

[LORDE]

Why not bury Smith in Hartford? Buyouts hurt in the future and we don't care about our cap right now. It makes no sense to steal from the future of the NYR to help us this coming season.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I cannot understand wanting to buyout Smith regardless of whether you are on team go for it next year or on team keep tanking for the foreseeable future.

If you want to win you should want to keep Smith since he's actually good.

If you want to lose why would you care about the cap next year and want to add on two years of a dead cap hit?

Especially since the cap will not be a problem for this team during the term of his contract. He's actually a great guy to have as a 4th line LW, defensive insurance, tough-guy player if you can ignore the cap hit.

 

[Edge]

What's going to convince you he can? Something like playing 82 games in a season?

Hell, I'll settle for back to back years of 70-75 games.

Still waiting on that one.

His career average is in the 60s right now, this year is only the second time he's played more than 65 in a season. The other time was back in 2016, which was followed by a career low 60 games, followed by another career low of 55.

 

[Beacon]

It's so frustrating that 14 months into a rebuild, the only talk here is UFA acquisition. It is just common sense that what we need is this UFA or that UFA, just a matter of who we get and how much we pay for him. But nobody doubts if we even need a UFA.

 

[Tawnos]

Why not bury Smith in Hartford? Buyouts hurt in the future and we don't care about our cap right now. It makes no sense to steal from the future of the NYR to help us this coming season.

On the other hand, why waste time with a player who isn't part of the solution today and won't be part of the success tomorrow?

 

[DanielBrassard]

What's going to convince you he can? Something like playing 82 games in a season?

That would be something wouldn't it.
>looks at Games played by the Jets
>Looks at Games played by Trouba
>Both at 87

BTW for all those who believe Seth Jones is on a different level than Trouba

 

[Beacon]

Trouba checks so many boxes

Does he check the box about being the same age as Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, Lundkvist, Jets pick, 2020 first rounder? Because all our top ceiling guys are still teenagers. Literally all of them except Zibanejad.

 

[Tawnos]

Hell, I'll settle for back to back years of 70-75 games.

Still waiting on that one.

His career average is in the 60s right now, this year is only the second time he's played more than 65 in a season. The other time was back in 2016, which was followed by a career low 60 games, followed by another career low of 55.

I understand where you're coming from. I don't personally believe in the concept of injury prone-ness, except in the case of concussions making you more susceptible to more concussions.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Does he check the box about being the same age as Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, Lundkvist, Jets pick, 2020 first rounder? Because all our top ceiling guys are still teenagers. Literally all of them except Zibanejad.

So trade Zibanejad?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Staal's problem is his contract, not his performance. He's better than most around here concede and he could be a valuable third pair defender if his minutes were properly managed. If he was making $2MM, we would love him. There's a place for him somewhere in this league. The off season is the time to move him.

It’s both contract and performance.

He is horrible and clogs up a spot for a younger player.

 

[Edge]

I understand where you're coming from. I don't personally believe in the concept of injury prone-ness, except in the case of concussions making you more susceptible to more concussions.

Eh, within reason.

Missing an entire season over a 5 year span to a varied assortment of issues raises some red flags for me.

Normally, I might be somewhat okay if the talent level is incredibly high. But in this case, I'm not sold on how the durability plays into a guy for whom we'd be handing an increased role.

Typically, if a guy is talented, and you're trying to preserve him, you slide him into more of a support role. You usually don't heap more focus and responsibility on him.

That's what we'd be looking to do, and that's a little scary.

 

[bobbop]

I understand where you're coming from. I don't personally believe in the concept of injury prone-ness, except in the case of concussions making you more susceptible to more concussions.

I believe in the concept if it is chronic...knee, shoulder etc.

That's not been the case with Trouba. In fact when I was researching his injury history, I found a video where he talked about being I jury free for something like 5 years before his first pro injury.

Am I concerned about injuries? Always. In the case of this player? No.

 

[Beacon]

So trade Zibanejad?

Zibanejad is signed to a good contract.He also is not a question mark as far as what will happen once he comes here. If you can get a 26-year-old .9 ppg player for $5/year who is signed until he'll be only 29 years old, go for it. There's no realistic universe where we can do that. We are talking about $7-9 and a term that takes him well into his 30s.

Zib is the kind of vet you want on the team: not someone who kills the cap now or long term, someone who is proven to fit in the locker room and on the ice, etc. A guy getting millions more per year for 7 years who may or may not produce in New York is a whole other story. That said, if I could get Byram for Zib and a small add, I jump all over it.

 

[Tawnos]

Eh, within reason.

Missing an entire season over a 5 year span to a varied assortment of issues raises some red flags for me.

Normally, I might be somewhat okay if the talent level is incredibly high. But in this case, I'm not sold on how the durability plays into a guy for whom we'd be handing an increased role.

Typically, if a guy is talented, and you're trying to preserve him, you slide him into more of a support role. You usually don't heap more focus and responsibility on him.

That's what we'd be looking to do, and that's a little scary.

Eh... Trouba played the 2nd most ES minutes per game this year among D on the Jets, only trailing Byfuglien who missed half the season. He played the 2nd most short-handed minutes after Morrissey, who he was usually paired with anyway. He played the 2nd most PP minutes after Byfuglien. And he played the 2nd most overall, again after Byfuglien.

He played 250 more total minutes than any other D on the team and for half the year, he was the 1RD. He played more per game than anyone on the Rangers did last year. I'm not really sure how much of an increased role we'd really be giving him.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Eh, within reason.

Missing an entire season over a 5 year span to a varied assortment of issues raises some red flags for me.

Normally, I might be somewhat okay if the talent level is incredibly high. But in this case, I'm not sold on how the durability plays into a guy for whom we'd be handing an increased role.

Typically, if a guy is talented, and you're trying to preserve him, you slide him into more of a support role. You usually don't heap more focus and responsibility on him.

That's what we'd be looking to do, and that's a little scary.

I don't understand the "more responsibility" talking point. For example, he was #1 on the Jets in TOI and in Defensive Zone starts as well as 2nd in QoC metrics right after his partner Josh Morrissey. The idea that he can't be a #1 defenseman when he showed this season he can is strange.

 

[Off Sides]

You guys did at least watch the Jets series?

That is a microcosm of what Trouba is, he's really good in his own zone, he is good at getting to the puck to guys who attempt and shoot a lot. His offense is not really what his production line indicates.

Trouba sending passes to his most common teammate forwards Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers, Laine both 5on5 and on the PP are a little different than who he'd be passing to on the Rangers.

 

[NYR Viper]

On the other hand, why waste time with a player who isn't part of the solution today and won't be part of the success tomorrow?

The only thing about burying him is that they don't need the cap space next year and buying him out only extends the pain