Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[haohmaru]

I just can't believe that I'm seeing posters expressing a desire to get Kadri. He probably single-handedly cost Toronto this playoff run, and he's a repeat offender at this type of offense, so likely it will happen again. If anything should be advocating for resigning homegrown Hayes and keeping whatever assets Kadri deal would've cost.

Kadri actually behaves like people act like DeAngelo does. Huge pass on Kadri.

 

[ncmike]

Aren’t you kinda contradicting yourself? Messier was brought in way before the Rangers knew exactly what they had in Zubov, Kovalev, Amonte and Weight. You actually are making a pretty compelling argument for bringing a vet right now to support the development of the current prospects, making sure they develop properly and simultaneously addressing a hole in the their prospect pool? If not Panarin, at least it’s compelling enough re. Trouba.

I totally agree. Only problem I see is if they sign Panarin the team will end up I the 8 to 10 range which will not help. As much as I would love a Panarin on this team, I think the play is to suck and draft another high end forward and then focus on defense with the rest of their picks. Then look to sigh a Trouba and Fox to shore up the defense.

 

[Edge]

How do you know if something works? Winning Stanley cups isn’t a good judge when going into the playoffs the best team is almost never more than 25% to win it

Simple - I give it more time to see the long term results before praising it as the model to follow. Sustained success, deeper runs, progressive results, etc.

Does that mean winning the cup? Not necessarily.

Does it require more than what I’ve continued to see from Toronto? Absolutely.

 

[NYRKING30]

While pushing the timeline up is not a thought that should be dismissed, I think it is disingenuous to call out the Tavares signing as bad. JT is a great player. The real botch job from Dubas was his inability or lack of desire to love a quality forward piece for a quality defensive piece.

The blueline is not good and the Muzzin trade would have looked a lot better if he was a right handed shot.

Not bad, but not necessary either. They should have invested it in their backend, I think they would have had better results.

 

[pld459666]

That wasn't the point. The point was two 1st round picks.

I don't think they care as much about the pucks as you do

If they can make the WCF, they would gladly give up this years pick, and I also don't see them caring much about a 1st in 2020 if they can lock up a top 6 winger that will be more impactful for the next 4-5 years where as the pick is not gonna help them nearly as much during the same time period.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Big fat no on Kadri. Guy is an idiot.

 

[LORDE]

If Kadri single-handedly cost Toronto the playoffs shouldn't you want him on the team? That would indicate that he's extremely good if the loss of him had that big of an impact.

Or (& I’m just playing devs advocate here)
It could mean that parity in the NHL is at an all time even and one play or one player could mean a team doesn’t advance.

 

[ncmike]

Not sure why it's even important to be honest. What difference does it make in the grand scheme of things when the rebuild technically happened?

Because some people just have to be right

 

[Vitto79]

Count me in the group that would be VERY interested in Kadri if the price was low

Like how low ? Leafs will want a RD and they won’t take Shatty so Pionk and what ?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Simple - I give it more time to see the long term results before praising it as the model to follow. Sustained success, deeper runs, progressive results, etc.

Does that mean winning the cup? Not necessarily.

Does it require more than what I’ve continued to see from Toronto? Absolutely.

Then what's your baseline? Boston and Chicago? I'll purposely exclude Pittsburgh because anyone expecting to get two centers of the same caliber as Sid and Geno is a fool. Does San Jose count in this list despite not winning any championships? They've made the playoffs 21/27 times in their franchise history.

 

[Edge]

Then what's your baseline? Boston and Chicago? I'll purposely exclude Pittsburgh because anyone expecting to get two centers of the same caliber as Sid and Geno is a fool. Does San Jose count in this list despite not winning any championships? They've made the playoffs 21/27 times in their franchise history.

Well, for starters I don’t know if there is one “model” that serves as the baseline.

But yes, if you were going to look at sources to draw from, it would be elements from those teams.

It wouldn’t be Toronto at this point. That’s what I take issue with.

 

[Trxjw]

Do the Leafs even have a model? They're a team that was bad for a long time while trying very hard not to be bad. They handed out bad contracts, traded two top-10 picks for an elite scorer while failing to build a team around him, and made some very questionable draft picks along the way. Dubas seems to get an awful lot of accolades for simply having taken over a team that was already in a premium position.

Gorton has done in two years what took the Leafs the better part of a decade to build. I like whatever his model is so far.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Dallas depth at forward behind Seguin and Benn is Radulov

Not much there at all.

I'd call their bluff if they called and stated the 1st is to much to give up if they signed Zuccs.

I'm not doing them any favors

If they thought giving up 2 first round picks is too much for Zuccarello, they shouldn't have agreed to that part the deal.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Well, for starters I don’t know if there is one “model” that serves as the baseline.

But yes, if you were going to look at sources to draw from, it would be elements from those teams.

It wouldn’t be Toronto at this point. That’s what I take issue with.

I'll give them credit for establishing a successful model for their farm team, being innovative in the field of analytics, and probably setting the bar for future RFA deals (whether we like that or not).

However, I do get what you're saying, and I think rebuilding in aggregate will be keep for if this rebuild is successful. The one constant through the first three teams I've mentioned is strong drafting through the US prospect pools, and I'll continue hammering that point until some dope in our front office gets it through their skulls. Maybe pass the word along?

 

[Waivers]

Kadri is a pretty decent C but he’s got too many screws loose for me.

 

[Edge]

I'll give them credit for establishing a successful model for their farm team, being innovative in the field of analytics, and probably setting the bar for future RFA deals (whether we like that or not).

However, I do get what you're saying, and I think rebuilding in aggregate will be keep for if this rebuild is successful. The one constant through the first three teams I've mentioned is strong drafting through the US prospect pools, and I'll continue hammering that point until some dope in our front office gets it through their skulls. Maybe pass the word along?

And if Toronto’s approach proves successful over the long haul, I have no problem using them as a model to draw from.

But I chaff a bit when I hear Toronto and Tampa cited as examples - at least at this point.

Right now I don’t think they’ve accomplished more than half-a-dozen other teams who we don’t cite in a similar fashion. That doesn’t make them bad teams. But they are not the gold standard either.

 

[Fugazy]

Kadri is a pretty decent C but he’s got too many screws loose for me.

No interest in bringing in Kadri at this time.

 

[trilobyte]

Not really part of Rangers roster build, but just to respond, I think the Leafs are too early in their rebuild. Like any anxious franchise, they are trying to leapfrog the road to success. I was actually a bit incredulous to think that most people did think the Leafs considered themselves a real contender this season. I thought that was silly, even though they had made some good draft choices.
The problem that the Leafs have is that, in most cases, you can't leapfrog and skip the real building process. Plugging John Tavares in (check off the proven experienced scorer, hometown boy too...we got it!). Grabbing Muzzin (okay, heavy physical playing experienced Cup winning defenceman...we got it!), installing Mike Babcock as coach (cost is no object, we want the best....done!).
Leafs could have made a move to get Nylander to Winnipeg for Trouba. From all I heard, that could have been done had the Leafs wanted it, and that the Jets were willing.
The fact remains that the Leafs did not think it was necessary.

I am just a rank amateur observer on team rebuilds, but Gorton has done a very good job by doing the real work, and mostly, I get the sense that he knows that you can't cheat. Luck is part of it, but don't rely on pushing it.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I read that article. It was the basis for my post.

Still seems ridiculous to me to unite the Hughes.

 

[NYRKING30]

I think Shanahan deserves the credit for mostly constructing the Leafs. Lou wasn't hired at the time when they got most of their studs.

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think the Leafs will move Kadri. Either Marleau will retire after he gets his signing bonus and the Leafs will deal his rights to Ottawa or another team who wants to stay above the floor, or some team will step in to take him for a better sweetener to buy him out and let him sign with a contender somewhere. I don't foresee all of the other GM's uniting to try and put the squeeze on the Leafs because only one or two will ever benefit from them having to jettison a player like Kapanen or Nylander.

I could see a hockey trade going down with Toronto though. Kreider makes a lot of sense for the player they're trying to add. They're in much better shape in 2020 with their cap because Marleau will be off the books and their big guys will be locked up. He could re-up there if it's a fit.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

What about Williams?

 

[wafflepadsave]

Washington is out!

 

[trilobyte]

What about Williams?

It always kills me when people keep putting him down over the years, but if you ever talked to teammates and people in the know (never mind the fact that his success is freaking obvious) they would tell you flat out how important he is in the games that count.

Just realized I should state that I am not suggesting the Rangers get Williams. Great addition to a team like the Hurricanes though trying to knock down some doors with all their good young players.

 

[n8]

No to Kadri. No to Trouba. He hasn't shown me enough to warrant a gigantic long term contract. Panarin has and I could live with or without him. He's worth the contract IMO, it's really more a matter if you think he makes sense for a long term plan to build a cup team. He could make sense if we think we have a realistic 5 year outlook towards being a top tier competitive team.