Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Fitzy]

The rebuild started when Gorton and Sather sent the letter out last year. This rebuild has been going on for 1.25 years.

Inclined to agree. Stepan for Andersson was a 'retool' move when they were concerned about Stepan's ceiling and longevity. It came after a season where we made the second round. It's no more a rebuilding move than Brassard for ZIbanejad. I don't buy their ex post facto statement that it was "The beginning of the process." We started to rebuild when Gorton realized we weren't good any more.

 

[True Blue]

We get it, you hate Trouba, 9000 question marks, not healthy al lthe time, blah blah balh...

This is not about hating Trouba, but listing realistic concerns for a team that is barely over a year into a rebuild.

Tell me, did you say this about Zibanejad when we got him, too????

Was the team in a full on rebuild mode when the deal was made? Did ZBad miss significant playing time in 4 out of 6 years? Was he brought here and assumed that he would be a top line center and the anchor of the forwards?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Didn't Winnipeg win the "least desirable place to play" category with 35%+ of the players votes? I agree with you that Kreider is unlikely to go to Winnipeg.

I spent a Friday night in Winnipeg in January. We went from the Airbnb to the game and then right back to the Airbnb after the game. Not at a lot going on there.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

McDonagh also played some of the hardest hockey of most hockey players because of Torts.... His mileage count is very high

So Trouba with lower mileage averaging less games person season than McDonagh is a good thing how?

 

[LORDE]

I mean... it literally describes the situation with Zibanejad, except that Zibanejad isn't a free agent. Lots of concern about injuries... has missed huge amounts of time... but who is really talking about dealing him?

Trouba isn't a free agent, we would have to spend quality assets to get him, then we would have to extend him (I assume) and I doubt the contract would look anything like Zbad's

 

[ETTER DE]

I do not agree on the Yandle part -- there just was not room for him here. We'd be paying him $6M to play--well at this rate it would be 1st pairing, but we had McDonagh-Staal-Skjei down the left at the time he left.

Beyond that though, I wish people would realize this more often. We've been actively *NOT* pursuing FA and quick fixes since the Zibanejad, and we've been ripping this team down to the studs since the Stepan trade... Even if you don't count the Zib trade as the rebuild start, it's been nearly TWO FULL SEASONS since that Stepan trade.

We've been collecting assets for essentially 2.5 years (Zib trade is a half rebuild half compete move)... We're nearly out of that phase. There are only so many pieces you can acquire before you start making some competitive moves

And the reason nothing more was done in 2016/17 was the upcoming Vegas draft. It was harder to make trades when you had to protect players. Could still be done, but you would maybe have had to trade a dollar for 80 cent or be extremely clever. Like @Ola use to say: Managers are afraid to make trades, and it this case maybe trades that on paper would look bad. Gorton decided to wait and at season end he panicked and bought out Girardi and signed Smith and Shattenkirk to those terrible contracts. And with those moves he ruined his own rebuild and had to tear it down.

 

[Trxjw]

Why do we assume Kreider would want to sign there?

That's a pretty big plot hole.

I gotta be honest with you, I don't think Kreider is choosing Winnipeg as an UFA. At all.

Not to mention why would Winnipeg want to invest money in Kreider, who would be arguably their 3rd best LW and 5th best winger if/when Connor and Laine are both kept?

 

[TheTakedown]

So Trouba with lower mileage averaging less games person season than McDonagh is a good thing how?

Good to know you can comprehend context.

 

[Trxjw]

Anyone that you have in mind?

Honestly you already mentioned him: Ristolainen. I think he's a heck of a lot better than the reputation he gets, and I would love to see him in a new environment with a youth-focused coaching staff.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Good to know you can comprehend context.

Spare me

 

[Tawnos]

Trouba isn't a free agent, we would have to spend quality assets to get him, then we would have to extend him (I assume) and I doubt the contract would look anything like Zbad's

He is a free agent, though not unrestricted. I mentioned that because the hypothetical scenario there was how we’d feel about Trouba if he was Rangers property right now (though, if he was I don’t think we’d be in the same contract situation with him as Winnipeg is).

 

[Tawnos]

It's unnecessary when the buyont only saves us $3M THIS COMING SEASON, then saves us barely over $1M the following year, then costs us just over $1M for the next 2 years. it's just an unnecessary move. Do we need $3M in cap space for specifically next year? Go look at my bury vs buyout chart for him a couple posts up

I’m aware of the numbers. My reason for wanting him gone has little do with the numbers, because I don’t consider the $1.1m in years 3 and 4 to be a problem.

Smith’s presence can damage kids in Hartford too. I don’t want him there and I don’t want him on the Rangers. Also, I consider the idea that we’ll just bury him to be fantasy. He’s either with the Rangers for the next two years or he’s bought out.

 

[ETTER DE]

I do not agree on the Yandle part -- there just was not room for him here. We'd be paying him $6M to play--well at this rate it would be 1st pairing, but we had McDonagh-Staal-Skjei down the left at the time he left.

Beyond that though, I wish people would realize this more often. We've been actively *NOT* pursuing FA and quick fixes since the Zibanejad, and we've been ripping this team down to the studs since the Stepan trade... Even if you don't count the Zib trade as the rebuild start, it's been nearly TWO FULL SEASONS since that Stepan trade.

We've been collecting assets for essentially 2.5 years (Zib trade is a half rebuild half compete move)... We're nearly out of that phase. There are only so many pieces you can acquire before you start making some competitive moves

I 100% agree on the Yandle part but if McDonagh had been traded to Edmonton or wherever it was, they would probably kept him?

 

[SA16]

Why don't we just play Smith since he is a good defenseman and also plays well at forward?

 

[ETTER DE]

The rebuild started when Gorton and Sather sent the letter out last year. This rebuild has been going on for 1.25 years.

No it has not. That is how they are spinning it. To cover for the fact that they ruined their own rebuild. Please do not buy it.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

No it has not. That is how they are spinning it. To cover for the fact that they ruined their own rebuild. Please do not buy it.

Retooling isn’t rebuilding

 

[Tawnos]

You know, in regards to when the Rangers rebuild began, I care less about when the Rangers started accumulating prospects and picks than I do about where those prospects and picks are in the development curve.

In that sense, the Rangers rebuild really starts with the 2016 draft. We hopefully have 3 or 4 pieces (or more) of the future team that might have come out of that draft. Yeah, maybe not all of Howden, Hajek, Lindgren, and Rykov become important players... but in rebuilds that’s often the case. In my mind, even though the active roster machinations of a rebuild didn’t really start until the 2018 deadline, we’re on the 4th entry draft of it.

If you’re a rebuilding team and the leading edge of your prospect pool is going to be in their D+4 season, then you’re going to be in year 4 of the rebuild. It doesn’t really matter much when you started trading your pending UFAs or other vets that you don’t see as part of the future. All that really matters is where your prospect pool is.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No it has not. That is how they are spinning it. To cover for the fact that they ruined their own rebuild. Please do not buy it.

They didn't try to rebuild before.

Over the last 1.25 years, they moved 8 NHL players and received numerous draft choices and prospects. They returned 2 NHL bodies and a cap dump (Belesky.)

Prior to that, their trades have usually been of the buying nature other than The Brassard deal, which returned a young player and a pick (moved to DET for Smith a rental player, not a move characteristic of a rebuilding team) and the Stepan trade which returned a draft pick and a young NHL D who had NHL experience.

They aren't spinning anything, you are.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Why wouldn’t Trouba test free agency? Literally, no reason for him not to.

He’ll maximize his salary while having his choice of where he plays.

Chevy isn’t going to trade him for pennies on the dollar. If Gorton is truly interested, wait another year and try and sign him. We don’t need him here next season. Keep our assets.

 

[ETTER DE]

Inclined to agree. Stepan for Andersson was a 'retool' move when they were concerned about Stepan's ceiling and longevity. It came after a season where we made the second round. It's no more a rebuilding move than Brassard for ZIbanejad. I don't buy their ex post facto statement that it was "The beginning of the process." We started to rebuild when Gorton realized we weren't good any more.

A little over a year after the 2016 playoffs, when Gorton stated that they needed to get younger, the following players were gone from the team. Yandle,Boyle,Klein,Girardi,Brassard,E.Staal,Stepan and Lindberg. That is exactly 50% of the top ten forwards and the defense. If you count the 4th liners you get probably that 60% of the team was repleced within a year or so That is not a retool, that is almost a complete rebuild.

But they failed with the rest. Buch did not have that much impact, neither did Vesey. Grabner was good a find, but he was always here short term. And they could not find a top pairing partner for McDonagh. Of course now we now why. Because the intention was always to trade him.

 

[Edge]

I mean... it literally describes the situation with Zibanejad, except that Zibanejad isn't a free agent. Lots of concern about injuries... has missed huge amounts of time... but who is really talking about dealing him?

Actually plenty of people probably up until the holidays. Whether it was keeping Hayes over him, or other proposals.

We’re not that far removed from that, and that’s WITH a team-friendly contract in place

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A little over a year after the 2016 playoffs, when Gorton stated that they needed to get younger, the following players were gone from the team. Yandle,Boyle,Klein,Girardi,Brassard,E.Staal,Stepan and Lindberg. That is exactly 50% of the top ten forwards and the defense. That is not a retool, that is a rebuild.

Contract, Retirement, Retirement, Buyout, Trade, Contract, Trade.

Two of the guys you mentioned were not kept due to cap space, two retired, two were traded, one was bought out.

That is NOT a rebuild.

 

[Edge]

Tell me, did you say this about Zibanejad when we got him, too????

Nothing against Zibanejad, but no one on here was describing him the way we’re describing Trouba in this thread.

That’s apples to oranges.

 

[Tawnos]

Actually plenty of people probably up until the holidays. Whether it was keeping Hayes over him, or other proposals.

We’re not that far removed from that, and that’s WITH a team-friendly contract in place

That’s a fair point, though MOST of the serious posters were rolling their eyes at those guys even then. (RB is the only poster who I respect that was pushing to move him)

 

[Fitzy]

If we aren't moving for Trouba, I really need to see some sort of move, be it for a higher draft pick or young prospect, that gets a potential #1 all situations defenseman in the system. Miller maybe has that upside but I'd expect he's got about a "C" chance of achieving it via the old HF ranking system.

With the addition of Kakko, who frankly could be either a top wing OR center at the NHL level from what I've read, 1D is the big vacant spot in our future.

We could build depth and have 3 well balanced pairings without a true star blueliner, but that's not an ideal situation, much like our "Three second lines" offensive situations of the past.