Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV

[Crease]

Lindgren is a guy you keep. Hard working. Puts his body on the line. And loved by his teammates. Why would you let him go, because he’s not an ideal #2? Seems like there’s another solution to that issue.

 

[Ola]

There is no scenario where taking Kreider out of the top6 would have made sense. If they wanted to move him to RW, sure.

The whole argument was predicated on "Kreider only scores PPGs. He can still do that on the 3rd line" Negating everything else he does at even strength.

I don’t think it makes sense — now — either. He has developed sick chemistry with Ziba and those two were always good fits.

With that said, wind back the tape to start of camp and I wouldn’t have minded Kravy given a shot there with Kakko on the right and Kreider on the 3rd line. Kreider is also good 5 on 5, we get about 1-2 minutes less of that if he is on the 3rd.

 

[Ola]

Everyone said Danault would get 6+ per season. He came in just over $5m per season but he got term. Give these guys some term. Copp for 6 years and Motte for 4. Motte should come in around the Hathaway deal with Washington. 4 years x $1.5-1.8m

How much longer will the cap remain flat? I lose count of the years lol. If it’s two more years, soon these guys will want 2 year contracts (or 3 years of its flat for 3 more years).

 

[Ola]

Lindgren is a guy you keep. Hard working. Puts his body on the line. And loved by his teammates. Why would you let him go, because he’s not an ideal #2? Seems like there’s another solution to that issue.

Yeah, I am a little bummed we only locked him up for 3 years, but he should be here for those 3 before he walks I recon. Next contract he will cost more. He is doing a great job.

 

[Ola]

K’Andre Miller is a player I wouldn’t have minded if we burnt another year off his ELC already. I would have loved to negotiate a long-term deal with him this summer.

That kid is going to be sick in his prime.

 

[mas0764]

No. Apparently you don't get it.

Gallant just explained that Lafreniere to third line left wing isn't a demotion.

Therefore it wouldn't be for Kreider either.

 

[mas0764]

I've played and watched hockey for decades. Stop with this condescending shit that I "don't get it".

Same for you then.

You actually think you aren't being condescending?

How hilarious.

"Third line, got it." You are being dismissive and condescending. The only thing worse than that is you are also being an enormous hypocrite.

Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, Kakko are in your top 6, should play the most minutes, and play both PK and PP. They should be part of your top six every night unless your third line is having a great night and they deserve more ice time.

OF COURSE there are 1/2/3/4 lines in hockey. Tell Chytil he's a "3rd liner" in name only and he'll tell you you're full of shit. Tell Reaves he's not really a 4th liner. This argument is semantics and bullshit.

Kreider should be in the top 6 of minutes played by a forward every freaking night. Period, end of story.

This is lots of words that don't mean anything. I didn't say there are never first, second, and third lines, I said that in this particular instance the arrangement would transcend traditional line roles, because this isn't a video game where you always need to slot your top rated players into top lines.

The lines should be whatever produces the best results across 60 minutes.

If it means an arrangement of Panarin with Strome, Lafreniere with Zibanejad and Kreider with Chytil, so be it.

I give not one ounce of caring about how much of an expert you think you are. Frankly it's the people who crow about how much experience they have that know the least almost without fail.

PS, playing Kreider with Chytil but then giving him all his ST minutes, he probably is in the top 6 of time played every night still.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider Zibs Laffy
Panarin Copp Kakko
Goodrow Chytil Blais/Kravtsov
Motte Brodz Reaves

KAM Trouba
Lindgren Fox
Jones Schneider

this is the way for now next season.
*subject to change

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Gallant just explained that Lafreniere to third line left wing isn't a demotion.

Therefore it wouldn't be for Kreider either.

Gallant is sometimes coy with the media and says stuff that isn't always accurate and/or to protect a player. I could also see Laf moved to the 3rd line rather than Kreider. It may or may not be seen as a demotion by some but you just don't put a guy on the 3rd line that is about to score 50 goals and has tremendous chemistry with the best center on your team. It just doesn't happen. They are both top line players and should stay there for the foreseeable future.

 

[Levitate]

K’Andre Miller is a player I wouldn’t have minded if we burnt another year off his ELC already. I would have loved to negotiate a long-term deal with him this summer.

That kid is going to be sick in his prime.

I remember when you didn't like him because you didn't like his heavy feet

As for Laf on the third line, the big thing there IMO is that Gallant needs to keep giving that line minutes and not bench them to run the top 2 and the 4th line. Just give them minutes and let them go

 

[bbny]

Zibanejad and Kreider are not being broken up. It was somewhat amusing to consider Kreider in a 3rd line/PP1 role before the season started as a means to get Lafreniere minutes, but Kreids has totally made that entire argument moot. He’s pacing 50 goals playing with Zibs. It’s utter ridiculousness to still suggest breaking that up. No other way to put that.

Also, you can’t put all the guys you want getting 19-20 minutes a game on separate lines, or they won’t get 19-20 minutes a game.

 

[duhmetreE]

I know we have had 2 common options when there's going to be a cap crunch....

a) Trade Kreider, ask for a NMC waive early
b) Trade Trouba, ask for a NMC waive early

I've always leaned on Trouba, while he's extremely valuable and a good player, he's not worth $8M of our cap, while Kreider is worth his cap hit.

There's a 3rd option starting to show crown up out of the pit of despair.... albeit it very faint

c) Trade Panarin, ask for a NMC waive

( I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE PANARIN. I've been the train conductor on the Panarin Train )

but someone will have to be moved at some point. and we're hoping Laffy and Kakko are legit top line players by this point.

P.S. I think we can keep this group together for at least 1 more season.... Maybe 2 or 3 depending on KAM and Laffy's extension.... but eventually, over the next few seasons, a tough decision will have to be made.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I know we have had 2 common options when there's going to be a cap crunch....

a) Trade Kreider, ask for a NMC waive early
b) Trade Trouba, ask for a NMC waive early

I've always leaned on Trouba, while he's extremely valuable and a good player, he's not worth $8M of our cap, while Kreider is worth his cap hit.

There's a 3rd option starting to show crown up out of the pit of despair.... albeit it very faint

c) Trade Panarin, ask for a NMC waive

( I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE PANARIN. I've been the train conductor on the Panarin Train )

but someone will have to be moved at some point. and we're hoping Laffy and Kakko are legit top line players by this point.

P.S. I think we can keep this group together for at least 1 more season.... Maybe 2 depending on KAM and Laffy's extension.

I could also see that as a possibility in 2 years. 11.5 million is a lot of money.

 

[mas0764]

Gallant is sometimes coy with the media and says stuff that isn't always accurate and/or to protect a player. I could also see Laf moved to the 3rd line rather than Kreider. It may or may not be seen as a demotion by some but you just don't put a guy on the 3rd line that is about to score 50 goals and has tremendous chemistry with the best center on your team. It just doesn't happen. They are both top line players and should stay there for the foreseeable future.

I would have no problem with this logic except Kreider isn't even the best LW on the team, Panarin is, so we are already placing guys at spots on lines that isn't necessarily merited by how good they are.

And on top of that we have a first overall pick LW who is, sorry to say, vastly more important to the franchise than Kreider is at this point of their respective careers.

In almost all situations what you are saying would be pretty iron clad. In this one, it is not. We have a potential 50 goal left winger who is not the best left wing on the team and needs - yes, needs - to take a bit of a back seat to developing Lafreniere.

On top of all of this, Gallant himself basically said Lafreniere is better at LW. On top of this, a very big chunk of Kreider's production comes from a role he would not be removed from, thus minimizing any loss of output. Ie, if he would otherwise score 25 goals at even strength and 25 on the power play, he still gets all his PP goals, and maybe even strength is dropped from 25 to 15? That ten goal loss is probably made up by Lafreniere playing with Zibanejad all season. On top of this, Kreider is eventually earmarked for that third line role anyway, if he stays.

I'm glad that Lafreniere and Chytil produced a goal, but if there are any indications that Lafreniere is better served on Zibanejad's left, then that is where he belongs and it's veteran Chris Kreider who should have to accomodate. Highly paid, already developed, way-less-of-a-risk-by-changing-something Chris Kreider. Either he can play with Chytil - which produces a very nice line of vet-kid mix with size and speed - or he can move to Zibanejad's right, since he plays in front of the net most of the time anyway.

 

[mas0764]

I know we have had 2 common options when there's going to be a cap crunch....

a) Trade Kreider, ask for a NMC waive early
b) Trade Trouba, ask for a NMC waive early

I've always leaned on Trouba, while he's extremely valuable and a good player, he's not worth $8M of our cap, while Kreider is worth his cap hit.

There's a 3rd option starting to show crown up out of the pit of despair.... albeit it very faint

c) Trade Panarin, ask for a NMC waive

( I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE PANARIN. I've been the train conductor on the Panarin Train )

but someone will have to be moved at some point. and we're hoping Laffy and Kakko are legit top line players by this point.

P.S. I think we can keep this group together for at least 1 more season.... Maybe 2 or 3 depending on KAM and Laffy's extension.... but eventually, over the next few seasons, a tough decision will have to be made.

It should kinda be Trouba regardless. Schneider makes Trouba expendable. It either frees up a RD spot for Nils, or, if Nils is still traded, you at least don't want Trouba passed by Schneider and then making $8m as your third paid RD.

I don't want to trade Panarin, but if he continues to put up points while looking like he's weighing down the team at 5v5, I'll listen to offers. They'd have to blow me away though.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I know we have had 2 common options when there's going to be a cap crunch....

a) Trade Kreider, ask for a NMC waive early
b) Trade Trouba, ask for a NMC waive early

I've always leaned on Trouba, while he's extremely valuable and a good player, he's not worth $8M of our cap, while Kreider is worth his cap hit.

There's a 3rd option starting to show crown up out of the pit of despair.... albeit it very faint

c) Trade Panarin, ask for a NMC waive

( I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE PANARIN. I've been the train conductor on the Panarin Train )

but someone will have to be moved at some point. and we're hoping Laffy and Kakko are legit top line players by this point.

P.S. I think we can keep this group together for at least 1 more season.... Maybe 2 or 3 depending on KAM and Laffy's extension.... but eventually, over the next few seasons, a tough decision will have to be made.

When exactly is the cap crunch? This off season?

I dont wanna move trouba just yet because I think trouba might be the key to copp taking a lesser contract.

I think we're still in really good shape for next year, but it will mean a bridge for laf, kk and miller.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Never has a player who’s yet again on pace for over 100pts been so underrated by their fanbase as Panarin

 

[bbny]

I know we have had 2 common options when there's going to be a cap crunch....

a) Trade Kreider, ask for a NMC waive early
b) Trade Trouba, ask for a NMC waive early

I've always leaned on Trouba, while he's extremely valuable and a good player, he's not worth $8M of our cap, while Kreider is worth his cap hit.

There's a 3rd option starting to show crown up out of the pit of despair.... albeit it very faint

c) Trade Panarin, ask for a NMC waive

( I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE PANARIN. I've been the train conductor on the Panarin Train )

but someone will have to be moved at some point. and we're hoping Laffy and Kakko are legit top line players by this point.

P.S. I think we can keep this group together for at least 1 more season.... Maybe 2 or 3 depending on KAM and Laffy's extension.... but eventually, over the next few seasons, a tough decision will have to be made.

I trade Kakko before Panarin. Kakko is coming off his ELC so we can’t point to him being “cheap” any longer. I can pretty confidently predict he will never be as good as Panarin.

In fact, I trade Kakko before any of those players.

 

[IDvsEGO]

It should kinda be Trouba regardless. Schneider makes Trouba expendable. It either frees up a RD spot for Nils, or, if Nils is still traded, you at least don't want Trouba passed by Schneider and then making $8m as your third paid RD.

I don't want to trade Panarin, but if he continues to put up points while looking like he's weighing down the team at 5v5, I'll listen to offers. They'd have to blow me away though.

Nils is a trade piece for a Center.
I absolutely doubt that we will keep all of fox,jones, and nils for the next few years.

 

[mas0764]

Kreider Zibs Laffy
Panarin Copp Kakko
Goodrow Chytil Blais/Kravtsov
Motte Brodz Reaves

KAM Trouba
Lindgren Fox
Jones Schneider

this is the way for now next season.
*subject to change

Lafreniere Zibanejad Kreider
Panarin Copp Kakko
Chytil young center Kravtsov
Motte Goodrow Blais
Brod, Reaves

Lindgren Fox
KAM Trouba
Jones Schneider

Nils and a pick traded for future 1C young center

 

[mas0764]

Nils is a trade piece for a Center.
I absolutely doubt that we will keep all of fox,jones, and nils for the next few years.

He probably is at this point. I like Nils but if he brings back the best center I can dig it.

I know it's taboo to say but I would dangle KAM and see what the offers are. I mean, if Nils brings in offers of Kupari or Hayton, but KAM brings in offers of Lundell or Byfield or something, you have to consider the difference. I'm not anticipating he'd bring back offers that are that much better, but if he did, well.... center is more important and we have tons of D.

I mean, and Schneider too, for what it's worth. Who brings me back the best young center?

 

[mas0764]

I trade Kakko before Panarin. Kakko is coming off his ELC so we can’t point to him being “cheap” any longer. I can pretty confidently predict he will never be as good as Panarin.

In fact, I trade Kakko before any of those players.

Kakko will be better than Trouba before too long and won't cost $8m either.

And he'll probably be better than Kreider too, in any other season than this one.

 

[mas0764]

Never has a player who’s yet again on pace for over 100pts been so underrated by their fanbase as Panarin

It's the shitty 5v5 results this season, plus the fact that he's 31 this fall.

Strome and coaching may be largely to blame for the first part. The second is inevitable. And some point a return may outweigh what you expect to get from him as he ages.

May. Like I said, it would have to blow me away. Not trading him for a late first and second at a deadline or something.

 

[mas0764]

Can I steal Barrett Hayton for cheap this offseason?

 

[mas0764]

@UAGoalieGuy

$1.9M left to get a backupgoalie and 7D.

A big move will have to take place in 2023-2024 though but $3.4M or so dead cap comes off

It's doable but it will take a lot of wiggling from here on out

We might be able to keep the squad together for 2 more seasons but if/when young players start taking off/need to get paid... it gets obviously harder

Kakko will probably get more than $2.1m.