Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV

[egelband]

If we trade Lindgren it should be for an upgrade imo. Don’t see a reason otherwise, there’s other moves that can be made that have already been mentioned

Absolutely. Lindgren is no cap dump. I just think that in a year or two it’s not unreasonable to imagine a “hockey trade” involving Lindgren.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Wasn’t Trouba signed pre-flat-cap? Either way I still think there’s a chance he re-signs with the Rangers. Assuming Strome walks.

He was, and that's a good point for sure. I still think Copp will be one of the more desired UFAs, especially if he excels here and in the playoffs, and that'll drive the price up regardless.

 

[duhmetreE]

He was, and that's a good point for sure. I still think Copp will be one of the more desired UFAs, especially if he excels here and in the playoffs, and that'll drive the price up regardless.

maybe sign him now? when 'emotions' are high and everyone is giddy?

 

[Taluss]

maybe sign him now? when 'emotions' are high and everyone is giddy?

Good idea in theory but:
- We don’t know how he’s going to produce the rest of the season (but seems positive)
- We don’t know his asking price if we were to do it atm
- Players don’t usually like negotiating during the season, especially when just traded to a new team and living in a new city

If he’s be willing to sign right now for a reasonable price I’d definitely do it though

 

[McRanger92]

He was, and that's a good point for sure. I still think Copp will be one of the more desired UFAs, especially if he excels here and in the playoffs, and that'll drive the price up regardless.

I think Drury has every intention of extending Copp, the trick is getting a good deal on the contract.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Reaves has a useful purpose on this team, I'd love if his feet moved faster but it is what it is, he allows players to play their game, players play bigger when he's around, anyone that played the game knows what I'm talking about. Our games with the Islanders and Caps look entirely different this year and he's a big reason for that.

 

[egelband]

I know you are going to continue to argue this point and you are the only one, but Kreider and Zibs are not going to be broken up for anybody this year when they are both having great seasons, have been playing together for years, and one of them is likely to score 50. It's just not happening. Laf on the 3rd line makes more sense where he is playing his more natural LW position and he still gets 15-20 minutes a game as he continues to learn the NHL game as a 20yo.

Yeah. I think the key is that the current third line isn’t a black hole. It’s a viable line. And Lafreniere gets to be the leader of that line as opposed to being more of a passenger/finisher.
Beginning of the year, Lafreniere with like, Hunt and a shell-shocked Chytil, was not a good situation. But with a re-energized Chytil and someone like Vatrano or Kakko or even Goodrow on the right, that’s an opportunity.

 

[n8]

Absolutely. Lindgren is no cap dump. I just think that in a year or two it’s not unreasonable to imagine a “hockey trade” involving Lindgren.

sell high, sell broken. Girardi's Law. we should have learned our lesson with his type. Are there are hard nosed players like Lindgren that are effective well into their 30s?

 

[Rangers in 7]

I know you are going to continue to argue this point and you are the only one, but Kreider and Zibs are not going to be broken up for anybody this year when they are both having great seasons, have been playing together for years, and one of them is likely to score 50. It's just not happening. Laf on the 3rd line makes more sense where he is playing his more natural LW position and he still gets 15-20 minutes a game as he continues to learn the NHL game as a 20yo.

You had me until you said laf will get 15-20 minutes a night….because that’s bullshit

We blew out the pens last game and he only saw 13 minutes of ice time

 

[JohnC]

Selling high on lindgren shoud be a serious conversation after this season.

As much as I like him as a player, he’s declined significantly this year, plays a style that will not age well, and has Miller/Jones/Robertson behind him in the pipeline.

 

[smoneil]

Selling high on lindgren shoud be a serious conversation after this season.

As much as I like him as a player, he’s declined significantly this year, plays a style that will not age well, and has Miller/Jones/Robertson behind him in the pipeline.

I don't think we need to sell him, per se, but it is getting close to the time to see how he looks away from Fox. I'd open next season with K'Andre and Fox as the top pair, put Lindy with Schneider on the third pair, and try Robertson or Jones on the Trouba pair (to let Troubs bring along another young D). If it doesn't work, they can always shuffle it up a bit.

 

[Ola]

lol, I'll have to go back and look, and I'm not saying you didn't like him as a prospect, but I'm pretty sure I remember you talking about his skating and worrying about how it'd work in the new NHL

Yes, go back and look! Miller has the perfect built, like a feather but still long reach and he packs enough muscle to be powerful. That is one of the things I loved about him from day 1, besides mostly that he just played a very good D game which indicated that he was a tremendously smart learner.

What you refer to us something I wrote about Morgan Barron!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It was reported he wants 2 milly a year and that’s why Vancouver got rid of him

Yeah, but he's sleeping in Trouba's basement now so he won't need as much.

 

[egelband]

sell high, sell broken. Girardi's Law. we should have learned our lesson with his type. Are there are hard nosed players like Lindgren that are effective well into their 30s?

I agree he would be a candidate for trade eventually. But he’s like 25 now. No need to rush this one. Figure he has 4 more great seasons. Maybe trade him in a couple years.

 

[GAGLine]

sell high, sell broken. Girardi's Law. we should have learned our lesson with his type. Are there are hard nosed players like Lindgren that are effective well into their 30s?

Lindgren is 24. Why are we worried about his 30s now?

If he hasn't been as good this year as last year, so what? Do you people really think he has peaked and this is the end for him at age 24?

Neither Jones nor Robertson are ready to play the role he does, and may never be.

 

[Waivers]

Panarin will still be a Ranger if the Rangers hoist a cup.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You had me until you said laf will get 15-20 minutes a night….because that’s bullshit

We blew out the pens last game and he only saw 13 minutes of ice time

20 minutes may be too much but around 13-15 minutes is what he should get most nights as he doesn't get much PP or PK time right now. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[JimmyG89]

When we do finally get healthy, this is what I would like to see:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Copp
Motte-Rooney-Goodrow

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth-Schneider
Braun

You could switch Copp and Kakko if you want to, depends on how he continues there. This unit maximizes the team.

The entire 4th line is PKers. Gallant likes players with roles. Eases some of the PK time for Kreider and Zibanejad, which will only help their 5v5 numbers. Also, that can be a matchup line. Could be like Boyle-Moore-Dorsett was in 14. 2 centers for faceoffs and guys that will do what you need.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers can revisit Lindgren's situation next summer(2023)if one of the younger LD has established himself as an NHL regular player and the Rangers need the cap space. Move up Miller to play with Fox?

The Rangers have so many young players who have never played a full 82 game schedule before this season. NHL and AHL. Arthur Staple made that point last week. It was either on his podcast or on Jeff Marek's show.

The 2019-20 was stopped in March 2020 after 69 games. They resumed in late July-early August for the playin round against Carolina. Last season was a 56 game schedule. For so many of these players this is their first NHL/AHL/professional hockey experience of the full 82 game season. It's a very long season.

 

[leetch99]

I would have no problem with this logic except Kreider isn't even the best LW on the team, Panarin is, so we are already placing guys at spots on lines that isn't necessarily merited by how good they are.

And on top of that we have a first overall pick LW who is, sorry to say, vastly more important to the franchise than Kreider is at this point of their respective careers.

In almost all situations what you are saying would be pretty iron clad. In this one, it is not. We have a potential 50 goal left winger who is not the best left wing on the team and needs - yes, needs - to take a bit of a back seat to developing Lafreniere.

On top of all of this, Gallant himself basically said Lafreniere is better at LW. On top of this, a very big chunk of Kreider's production comes from a role he would not be removed from, thus minimizing any loss of output. Ie, if he would otherwise score 25 goals at even strength and 25 on the power play, he still gets all his PP goals, and maybe even strength is dropped from 25 to 15? That ten goal loss is probably made up by Lafreniere playing with Zibanejad all season. On top of this, Kreider is eventually earmarked for that third line role anyway, if he stays.

I'm glad that Lafreniere and Chytil produced a goal, but if there are any indications that Lafreniere is better served on Zibanejad's left, then that is where he belongs and it's veteran Chris Kreider who should have to accomodate. Highly paid, already developed, way-less-of-a-risk-by-changing-something Chris Kreider. Either he can play with Chytil - which produces a very nice line of vet-kid mix with size and speed - or he can move to Zibanejad's right, since he plays in front of the net most of the time anyway.

Panarin might be better in spurts for sure ....but is he 5 more million better than a combo of Kreider -and an improving Laf at LW when that 5 + a couple of added million can be utilized for Center help ? I'd say move him if the opportunity ever comes up as the quicker we learn to live without him the club will be better suited to deal with the 2-5 years ahead with our younger guys and a more complete/balanced competing club . Panarin is probably a luxury we honestly cannot afford to have right now . It's like owning a Cadillac and having a mud driveway . Who knows what will happen....he could get body slammed again by Wilson and then be our LTIR relief ....

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Chytil has been a major standout these last few games. I have been in the camp of thinking it may be time to accept that he won’t be the future 2C of this club. Let’s see how he does the rest of the season. Liking how his game has changed recently.

 

[tlk]

It's like owning a Cadillac and having a mud driveway

lol

 

[kovazub94]

Lindgren is 24. Why are we worried about his 30s now?

If he hasn't been as good this year as last year, so what? Do you people really think he has peaked and this is the end for him at age 24?

Neither Jones nor Robertson are ready to play the role he does, and may never be.

Not now but decline due to aging will definitely be concerning on Lindgren next contract which pretty likely won’t be with the Rangers. If he were to be traded in the offseason it should be for an upgrade, however given the cap crunch the upgrade should also be on a sweetheart deal and such combination is not easy to come by (for a trade cost that’s not a highway robbery at that). We shall see.

Otherwise, next season it would be important to evaluate lineup options splitting Lindgren and Fox. The way he’s been progressing if it continues Miller with Fox could become the best pair in the whole NHL. Lindgren - Schneider as 3rd pair could also challenge for the best bottom pair in the whole NHL, and even this season Jones looked a lot more polished than Miller in his rookie season to think Trouba - Jones can work too.

P.S. or maybe it is just Shesterkin making them all look good

 

[Ola]

The Rangers can revisit Lindgren's situation next summer(2024)if one of the younger LD has established himself as an NHL regular player and the Rangers need the cap space. Move up Miller to play with Fox?

The Rangers have so many young players who have never played a full 82 game schedule before this season. NHL and AHL. Arthur Staple made that point last week. It was either on his podcast or on Jeff Marek's show.

The 2019-20 was stopped in March 2020 after 69 games. They resumed in late July-early August for the playin round against Carolina. Last season was a 56 game schedule. For so many of these players this is their first NHL/AHL/professional hockey experience of the full 82 game season. It's a very long season.

There are different windows a contender can utilize. The first type is ending fast for us, ie to win when the top kids are cheap.

But the following type comes from building a team and creating a self rolling assets recovery machine. Ie you play well, your players get a lot of spotlight and their value go up, and you sell off an established vet here and there for picks and prospects that you turn into new players. Nobody have really been able to do that for a longer period of time, most have just been killed by bad contracts given to players in their late 20s, like Seabrook and the likes.

This is why I didn’t necessarily like giving up two 2nds plus for Copp. That leaves a mark in the prospect pool.

I don’t like it that we only are giving these kids short term deals. There is very little upside. Was Skjei a poor signing? Some will say he was an awful signing, but he returned a 1st round pick. It was some time ago I checked, could have missed someone, but so far I can’t think of a single young player signing a long term deal that couldn’t be traded. The Leafs got assets for Zaitsev. How many 31 y/o’s with 4 years left are traded and return assets if their team has a change of heart? Almost none.

Kreider, Ziba, Panarin and Trouba — they can really drag down this franchise. Let’s be honest, they probably will. Trouba has been sick this year. But he has 4 years left. Ziba is great, 6 years left, right? And so forth.

But we must — from my POV, or what am I missing? — become much better locking up the kids to good contracts. These short term contracts that we constantly sign (a) risk putting us in a position where we have a player who is 27-28 y/o and we feel that we can’t lose him so we risk a ton by locking him up until he is 35 or (b) we deal a player like Buch for cents on the dollar because he is a ‘one-year’ rental.

Look at Filip Chytil. He is the type you should strong arm into a long term deal. I bet my right arm and leg that this is the worst year he is going to have by far the coming 8 years. He is a NHL caliber hockey player across the board, has a great attitude and there are also plenty of legit ‘excuses’ for his poor play (he was badly rushed).

Gorton is the master mind (inheriting the idea from Slats) to sign these short contracts. The idea is probably (a) that rentals may return less but not a ton less than a signed player and the risk is a lot lower and (b) the players has a bigger incentive to improve and perform without a contract.

But I don’t buy it.
(a) You will never get a good player without signing long term deals.
(b) If a player needs to be in a contract year to perform, that player isn’t worth keeping. Kreider is having a career year. Zucc is as good as he ever has been. Many players play great despite not playing for a contract.
(c) The difference in return is monumental. A really late 1st/2nd plus is nothing compared to what we would have received for Buch/Hayes/Zucc/JT Miller and co if they had good long contracts. Tampa got two 1st for JT Miller, we got 1, for JT and McD…

Lindgren — must — be moved. We should be able to replace him. Given when we signed him, an extension right before him becoming a UFA in his later 20s could be a nightmare.

 

[IDvsEGO]

There are different windows a contender can utilize. The first type is ending fast for us, ie to win when the top kids are cheap.

But the following type comes from building a team and creating a self rolling assets recovery machine. Ie you play well, your players get a lot of spotlight and their value go up, and you sell off an established vet here and there for picks and prospects that you turn into new players. Nobody have really been able to do that for a longer period of time, most have just been killed by bad contracts given to players in their late 20s, like Seabrook and the likes.

This is why I didn’t necessarily like giving up two 2nds plus for Copp. That leaves a mark in the prospect pool.

I don’t like it that we only are giving these kids short term deals. There is very little upside. Was Skjei a poor signing? Some will say he was an awful signing, but he returned a 1st round pick. It was some time ago I checked, could have missed someone, but so far I can’t think of a single young player signing a long term deal that couldn’t be traded. The Leafs got assets for Zaitsev. How many 31 y/o’s with 4 years left are traded and return assets if their team has a change of heart? Almost none.

Kreider, Ziba, Panarin and Trouba — they can really drag down this franchise. Let’s be honest, they probably will. Trouba has been sick this year. But he has 4 years left. Ziba is great, 6 years left, right? And so forth.

But we must — from my POV, or what am I missing? — become much better locking up the kids to good contracts. These short term contracts that we constantly sign (a) risk putting us in a position where we have a player who is 27-28 y/o and we feel that we can’t lose him so we risk a ton by locking him up until he is 35 or (b) we deal a player like Buch for cents on the dollar because he is a ‘one-year’ rental.

Look at Filip Chytil. He is the type you should strong arm into a long term deal. I bet my right arm and leg that this is the worst year he is going to have by far the coming 8 years. He is a NHL caliber hockey player across the board, has a great attitude and there are also plenty of legit ‘excuses’ for his poor play (he was badly rushed).

Gorton is the master mind (inheriting the idea from Slats) to sign these short contracts. The idea is probably (a) that rentals may return less but not a ton less than a signed player and the risk is a lot lower and (b) the players has a bigger incentive to improve and perform without a contract.

But I don’t buy it.
(a) You will never get a good player without signing long term deals.
(b) If a player needs to be in a contract year to perform, that player isn’t worth keeping. Kreider is having a career year. Zucc is as good as he ever has been. Many players play great despite not playing for a contract.
(c) The difference in return is monumental. A really late 1st/2nd plus is nothing compared to what we would have received for Buch/Hayes/Zucc/JT Miller and co if they had good long contracts. Tampa got two 1st for JT Miller, we got 1, for JT and McD…

Lindgren — must — be moved. We should be able to replace him. Given when we signed him, an extension right before him becoming a UFA in his later 20s could be a nightmare.

Didnt he sign skjei to a long term deal, as well as the deal we got mika under?
Those both ended up being smart moves.
I think the rangers were hamstrung with deals they could do because of the veteran contracts they had.
I think Gorton would've prefered longer term deals but players dont always want them because they believe in themselves and think they can break out.