Tob
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2017
- 16,899
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Ya but this is Steve whyeezerman we're talking about. As if we would be able to rip him off by sending Nemeth to them.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV
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Ya but this is Steve whyeezerman we're talking about. As if we would be able to rip him off by sending Nemeth to them.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 16,199
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I agree. I think Drury is just looking to see what last-minute bargains shake out. At least that’s what I hope he’s doing
BBKers
Registered User
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
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Oh dear. I really hope not. I am so tired of hearing that name, as well. Why, oh, why couldn’t Vancouver have gone on a 7-0 run.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
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I like Middleton. Reminds me of Lindgren. Though I don’t think we really have room for him.
Circus86
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- Sep 12, 2020
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KOVALEV022473
Registered User
Last summer, Andrew Copp was looking for a long-term contract in the $5M range. He agreed to a 1 year contract worth $3.64M to avoid the salary arbitration hearing. His agent is Kurt Overhardt. Jacob Trouba's agent. Where are the Rangers finding $5M for Copp? If the Rangers had $5M laying around, the Rangers should have signed Blake Coleman at $4.9M instead of Barclay Goodrow at $3.64M.
You can say subtract Flip Chytil and Patrick Nemeth for nothing. That gives the Rangers $4.8M for Copp. Is Copp playing center or wing? The Rangers still need a center. How much will the Rangers pay that player? How do the Rangers pay that player with Copp making $5M? How does it effect their cap in 23-24 when Chytil's contract expires and the Rangers have a few group II free agents. Every move effects the other move in a money and money out flat cap.
The Rangers do need a lefty center who they are confident in can win face-offs in the offensive zone. Last week at the end of the Islanders game, the Rangers pulled the goalie and Goodrow took the face-off in the left wing circle. He won the draw but he was on the ice for the remaining 53 seconds of the game. A few weeks ago, the Rangers had Kevin Rooney take a face-off in the left wing circle in OT.
You can say subtract Flip Chytil and Patrick Nemeth for nothing. That gives the Rangers $4.8M for Copp. Is Copp playing center or wing? The Rangers still need a center. How much will the Rangers pay that player? How do the Rangers pay that player with Copp making $5M? How does it effect their cap in 23-24 when Chytil's contract expires and the Rangers have a few group II free agents. Every move effects the other move in a money and money out flat cap.
The Rangers do need a lefty center who they are confident in can win face-offs in the offensive zone. Last week at the end of the Islanders game, the Rangers pulled the goalie and Goodrow took the face-off in the left wing circle. He won the draw but he was on the ice for the remaining 53 seconds of the game. A few weeks ago, the Rangers had Kevin Rooney take a face-off in the left wing circle in OT.
My strategy:
1. Do not give up 1st or 2nd round picks for a rental.
2. Look at the prospect pool, acknowledge the prospects that we probably will have a hard time capitalizing on, and consider dealing that or those assets along with a 3rd. I like Robertsson a lot. But he could be a prospect like that. Long way to the roster.
3. Why should we not give up Grade A assets for a rental? Teams want a chance to compete. You often hear players say that they wish management wouldn't have blown apart a team. I've never heard a player say that he wish his team traded for more rentals.
The thing is, so many teams can win in this league. Its small marginals, injuries, bounces and what not. But, to increase your odds and to go from being where Tampa was 5 years ago to 3 years ago, it takes time. I think we can say that same Carolina, and compere where they were when AO KO'd Svech to where they are today. When we play Carolina and Tampa, I am very impressed by what they do in many areas. Tampa's PK was so good. Carolina just swarms you. This is not a personnel thing. I.e. it is not like we can trade for 2-3 players and by the snap of your fingers get there. You only have so much time on the ice together as a team every season. Players are quick learners and of course has a foundation of knowledge how to play, but that doesn't mean that a team is perfect from Day 1. Give a coach 3 years with a team, and he can impact it more than with 1 year. How? Look at Carolina and Tampa. They just do some things really really well.
But won't Zibanejad and Panarin get worse, won't we have more cap issues, won't we just be worse in 3 years time? Perhaps! But the thing is, there are no shortcuts. This is a no-shortcuts league right now. Look at like Columbus going all in getting Duchene and co, look at Winnipeg going after Hayes and co. Honestly, when you watched those teams, were they better after the trades than before them? You couldn't tell. We could trade for the moon, but we still wouldn't be where like Carolina is.
4. So is there nobody that really would improve our team this year? Look, many here are wizs with math and what not. This is a math topic. Of our 5 on 5 time, roughly, our 1st plays 30%, our 2nd 27%, our 3rd 26% and our 4th 18%.
What has the biggest impact? Improving the 1st or 2nd line slightly, or improving the 3rd line a lot? Obviously improving the 3rd a lot has a tremendously much higher impact than a slight improvement of our 1st or 2nd. Right? Hence, four of the last six cup winners had -- by far -- the best 3rd line in the NHL. Hags-Bonino-Kessel / Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow.
So -- yes! -- there are definitely players out there that immediately could improve this team a lot. How? By transforming our 3rd line from being a line that is quite mediocre going up against other 3rds, to turning it into one of the harder lines to play against in the game.
Take Yanni Gourde for example. It is somewhat hopeless to play against a line centered by him. If the Ds press hard around the attacking blueline, all it takes is one bad bounce and he can scope up the puck, but the Ds on their heels, and most likely create a good scoring chance. This makes Ds hesitate when he is on the ice. And even if Gourde doesn't get a step on a D, he is so great at getting the puck up ice. Someone puts their 1st on the ice and wants to get momentum, and Gourde skates the puck up over the whole length of the ice and forces it to start over again. You also really have to protect the center of the ice, because Gourde will go to the net with full speed, that draws attention, and his wingers get ice to work with.
For the above reasons, I am just not sold on Radulov or Kessel either, even if they like came for free and brings great experience. Max Domi? Probably not. But you know, I wouldn't rule it out. Goodrow-Domi-Kakko? Could they mesh? Wouldn't 100% rule it out.
5. Look, a dump 'n chase line can only be so good. That is a situational type of hockey. It is 100% dependent on how the opponents reacts. If Martin-Czisikas-Clutterback plays the shift of their careers, they will not spend it in the attacking zone if the other teams plays it well. You live on mistakes.
Getting a better dump 'n chase player, like Copp, for our 3rd can only improve us so much. It is more or less on the margin. That line will only improve "a lot" if you change the make-up of it.
6. Lets talk defenders. This cannot be stressed enough, a young defender needs time to mature. I love Schneider. But these guys have a very very tough job description. The challenge is not to be able to do it well for a couple of weeks. It is to do it well over a much longer period. When you are hurting from injuries, when you have made a mistake, when the pressure is the highest, shift after shift after shift.
7. Our pairing of Nemeth and Schneider is not good enough. It is way below average for a PO team.
8. Of our young defenders, Zac Jones is the one I would be most comfortable with on the ice in the POs. Schneider can play also, but honestly, I am sceptical that he could keep it together for a full PO run. Zac is the most comfortable out there. Handles pressure the best.
9. If I am looking to make the biggest impact and to improve our chances for a PO run, I think getting a vet -- Right-handed Defensemen -- makes the most sense.
10. When we look at available RDs, there are some depth guys that would kind of be Nemeth's but on the right side. Psysyk. Gudbranson. Wideman. Sustr. There is also someone like Stralsy, just of the sake of completeness.
11. The one guy that would improve us the most on the blueline, is -- PK Subban. Lol. Especially on a pairing with Zac Jones. If ZJ gets in the zone like he can do from time to time.
1. Do not give up 1st or 2nd round picks for a rental.
2. Look at the prospect pool, acknowledge the prospects that we probably will have a hard time capitalizing on, and consider dealing that or those assets along with a 3rd. I like Robertsson a lot. But he could be a prospect like that. Long way to the roster.
3. Why should we not give up Grade A assets for a rental? Teams want a chance to compete. You often hear players say that they wish management wouldn't have blown apart a team. I've never heard a player say that he wish his team traded for more rentals.
The thing is, so many teams can win in this league. Its small marginals, injuries, bounces and what not. But, to increase your odds and to go from being where Tampa was 5 years ago to 3 years ago, it takes time. I think we can say that same Carolina, and compere where they were when AO KO'd Svech to where they are today. When we play Carolina and Tampa, I am very impressed by what they do in many areas. Tampa's PK was so good. Carolina just swarms you. This is not a personnel thing. I.e. it is not like we can trade for 2-3 players and by the snap of your fingers get there. You only have so much time on the ice together as a team every season. Players are quick learners and of course has a foundation of knowledge how to play, but that doesn't mean that a team is perfect from Day 1. Give a coach 3 years with a team, and he can impact it more than with 1 year. How? Look at Carolina and Tampa. They just do some things really really well.
But won't Zibanejad and Panarin get worse, won't we have more cap issues, won't we just be worse in 3 years time? Perhaps! But the thing is, there are no shortcuts. This is a no-shortcuts league right now. Look at like Columbus going all in getting Duchene and co, look at Winnipeg going after Hayes and co. Honestly, when you watched those teams, were they better after the trades than before them? You couldn't tell. We could trade for the moon, but we still wouldn't be where like Carolina is.
4. So is there nobody that really would improve our team this year? Look, many here are wizs with math and what not. This is a math topic. Of our 5 on 5 time, roughly, our 1st plays 30%, our 2nd 27%, our 3rd 26% and our 4th 18%.
What has the biggest impact? Improving the 1st or 2nd line slightly, or improving the 3rd line a lot? Obviously improving the 3rd a lot has a tremendously much higher impact than a slight improvement of our 1st or 2nd. Right? Hence, four of the last six cup winners had -- by far -- the best 3rd line in the NHL. Hags-Bonino-Kessel / Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow.
So -- yes! -- there are definitely players out there that immediately could improve this team a lot. How? By transforming our 3rd line from being a line that is quite mediocre going up against other 3rds, to turning it into one of the harder lines to play against in the game.
Take Yanni Gourde for example. It is somewhat hopeless to play against a line centered by him. If the Ds press hard around the attacking blueline, all it takes is one bad bounce and he can scope up the puck, but the Ds on their heels, and most likely create a good scoring chance. This makes Ds hesitate when he is on the ice. And even if Gourde doesn't get a step on a D, he is so great at getting the puck up ice. Someone puts their 1st on the ice and wants to get momentum, and Gourde skates the puck up over the whole length of the ice and forces it to start over again. You also really have to protect the center of the ice, because Gourde will go to the net with full speed, that draws attention, and his wingers get ice to work with.
For the above reasons, I am just not sold on Radulov or Kessel either, even if they like came for free and brings great experience. Max Domi? Probably not. But you know, I wouldn't rule it out. Goodrow-Domi-Kakko? Could they mesh? Wouldn't 100% rule it out.
5. Look, a dump 'n chase line can only be so good. That is a situational type of hockey. It is 100% dependent on how the opponents reacts. If Martin-Czisikas-Clutterback plays the shift of their careers, they will not spend it in the attacking zone if the other teams plays it well. You live on mistakes.
Getting a better dump 'n chase player, like Copp, for our 3rd can only improve us so much. It is more or less on the margin. That line will only improve "a lot" if you change the make-up of it.
6. Lets talk defenders. This cannot be stressed enough, a young defender needs time to mature. I love Schneider. But these guys have a very very tough job description. The challenge is not to be able to do it well for a couple of weeks. It is to do it well over a much longer period. When you are hurting from injuries, when you have made a mistake, when the pressure is the highest, shift after shift after shift.
7. Our pairing of Nemeth and Schneider is not good enough. It is way below average for a PO team.
8. Of our young defenders, Zac Jones is the one I would be most comfortable with on the ice in the POs. Schneider can play also, but honestly, I am sceptical that he could keep it together for a full PO run. Zac is the most comfortable out there. Handles pressure the best.
9. If I am looking to make the biggest impact and to improve our chances for a PO run, I think getting a vet -- Right-handed Defensemen -- makes the most sense.
10. When we look at available RDs, there are some depth guys that would kind of be Nemeth's but on the right side. Psysyk. Gudbranson. Wideman. Sustr. There is also someone like Stralsy, just of the sake of completeness.
11. The one guy that would improve us the most on the blueline, is -- PK Subban. Lol. Especially on a pairing with Zac Jones. If ZJ gets in the zone like he can do from time to time.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,353
- 24,147
If the Rangers were to trade for Copp, it would be as a Strome replacement. And he would be playing center. Those are the easy answers to your questions.
Whether that move would be a wise one has much more difficult questions.
KOVALEV022473
Registered User
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
That would be a huge mistake . You just don't trade guys that can fly and are huge and get at least one good scoring chance per game ...even if the puck won't go in . He can forecheck OK...cause Dmen to rush plays and can play on all lines if needed and keep up . Plus he only will cost us 800,000. I'm not sure what some of the people on here expect for that amount of cap ...and despite not scoring....the potential is still there . He is well worth keeping around for another season...as RB has said....we will need cheap guys . Who will be as cheap and bring as much and is experienced and familiar with our team and certainly no problem when he does sit out a few games...he never complains ! He is good value for below a million ....
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
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Totally agree. Thought I was the only one who feels Gauthier still has a chance. Thank you.
Good Intentions
Registered User
- Mar 30, 2018
- 2,154
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Lindgren has been better recently. Both Fox and Lindgren looked off a weeks ago. Lindgren made a beautiful pass to Strome last night and Strome hit the bar. Lindgren plays and competes hard.
The Rangers will need Robertson to play for them. They need as many ELC's as possible. Jones and Robertson can compete for a spot on D next season. Even if Jones makes the team over Robertson out of camp, that doesn't mean Robertson's career is over. He can be called up during the season. The Rangers are not playing with the same 6-7 D all season.
Maybe the Rangers need to move Lindgren's $3M in 23-24 for more cap space. They have Robertson's $797,500 to fill in the holes.
This list sucks
www.tsn.ca
TSN Hockey's Trade Bait List | TSN
Check out the players who make up TSN Hockey's Trade Bait board.
www.tsn.ca
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
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- 13,558
That’s what worries me too. Copp is a good player and would be a solid top-9 addition for this year. I don’t think that carries into next season with an expanded role and larger contract.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,353
- 24,147
In that eventuality, yes.
Whether that's good or bad is up to how we see the players and how they fit, but trading for Copp, with that contract ask, would be a signal that he's replacing Strome. Nothing else makes any sense unless they had a separate move lined up for a 2C that moved substantial salary.
NYR will need more offense next season from Kakko and Lafreniere. The upgrade at center doesn't necessarily need to score more than Strome- they need to be a different type of hockey player.
IronBloodedLion
Registered User
I feel like we’re all afraid for the Rangers to go all in because we keep expecting the wheels to fall off this season. Just when it looks like that was going to happen they grind out back to back wins against legitimate cup contenders.
If they get Rakell or Copp and get Kakko and Rooney back that’s suddenly a really solid forward group.
If they get Rakell or Copp and get Kakko and Rooney back that’s suddenly a really solid forward group.
I'd be pissed if they give up more than a 2nd and middling prospect for Copp if they decide to go that route. His production is wholly unimpressive for someone who plays nearly 20 min a game. And his 3 goals in 30+ playoff games is not inspiring confidence that he will be any kind of difference maker for us.
Rakell would be the better add but I can't see him costing anything less than a 1st + Nils/Kravtsov/Jones
Rakell would be the better add but I can't see him costing anything less than a 1st + Nils/Kravtsov/Jones
- Sep 17, 2007
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We won last night, but that's not a team we are beating 4 times out of 7. We might get lucky that Carolina gets eliminated by someone else, but there are still a lot of tough matchups left.
This is a young team, making the playoffs for the first time. Under no circumstances should we be going all in. If this year is our best chance to win with this team, then we've done something very, very wrong in building this team. We need to be patient. Give them some help, but don't spend too much to do it.
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Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III
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