Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV

[TheBloodyNine]

This seems like the right way to go. Unless there’s some amazing deal out there for a longterm piece, the Rangers should probably be after the top expiring deal players. Maybe a first and a prospect like Cuylle for Pavelski and a second and maybe Hajek for Kessel.

Rangers should absolutely not be trading first for players on expiring contracts.

 

[IDvsEGO]

He has had these players.

And I gotta be honest, I hated Quinn maybe the most out of anyone here. I don't think they'd be a much different team this year with Quinn at the helm as long as Kreider was scoring the way he is, Fox having another norris caliber season and Shesterkin having a Vezina caliber season. Nothing Gallant has done has made those players play like that.

So fox is having a norris caliber year (like he did last year) and shesty is having a vezina caliber year (slightly better than last year) and the team is same, and in fact most analytical sources belived that the rangers got worse this off season not better.

AND YET! the rangers surpassed last years point total already.

 

[egelband]

I have to say that I am still dumbfounded by the — lack — of talk of moving Laf into center position.

There is really no question about his skill set (a) being problematic on the wing and (b) being a better fit at center, in the NHL.

Why isn’t this discussed more? Like let’s leave right and wrong aside. I am not saying that it’s black and white. But it’s certainly “grey” enough to be considered — and especially given our center issues going forward.

These are fact:
-Before he was drafted every other expert questioned if he wouldn’t be a better fit at center. For obvious reasons. If you think I am clueless, just google it.

-There are a ton of examples of players with the right skill set — like Laf — effortlessly and with great success moving from the wing to center.

Claude Giroux for example. We who followed PL Dubois before the draft know that he never played center in juniors. Kuznetsov wasn’t a center. Kempe never played center.

The classic examples. Our best center ever was a LW, in Messier who didn’t play center before 84’. Kirk Muller. Vinny Damphousse.

So ultimately I am not saying that it must be done. But I do think it’s a big mistake that it’s not discussed and analyzed more. Could honestly by franchise future altering if it would work out. Or, what am I missing??

I’d love that but I think the team wants Lafreniere to get more scoring confidence first. And the last few games I’m seeing signs of life from him. Hoping that translates into a decent second half scoring wise. Then maybe the center discussion can begin?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So fox is having a norris caliber year (like he did last year) and shesty is having a vezina caliber year (slightly better than last year) and the team is same, and in fact most analytical sources belived that the rangers got worse this off season not better.

AND YET! the rangers surpassed last years point total already.

Yes, but that has everything to do with Kreider, Shesterkin and Fox, who were already playing this way under Quinn. The difference would be that they'd probably score more. Those three players are why we win 90% of the time. They played like that under Quinn.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Rangers should absolutely not be trading first for players on expiring contracts.

It would depend on the player, but I dont actually have a problem with moving a first, so long as the return makes sense.
I have a problem moving any of our A prospects outside of Nils or Jones.

 

[I Eat Crow]

So the mystery box could be anything including a boat.
Theres entirely a sunk cost falacy, in which you continue developing something that fails for too long. 2 years for 18 year-20 year old NHL players is not "too long". IF Laf and Kakko fail to develop will that second window entirely crash? Maybe not as they wont have superstar level contracts and we can open up potential cap space, but if we sell on them now, and fail to win a cup in this immediate window, does our 4-8 year window slam shut? Very likely.

I hear what you're saying and you would have a point if either player has given us any glimpse of whether they would be elite players in this league, but the fact is that neither has.

Kakko will end up a nice, two way top 6 forward. There's nothing wrong with that.

Lafreniere's future is a lot more volatile. He can either still become a 70 to 80 point player or there's still a good chance he can completely bust and be out of the league by the time he's 26. It's more likely than not he ends up somewhere in the middle, but he's likely not to be a player that you want him to be to lead a team into a second contending window based on what we've seen so far.

The Rangers, as currently constructed, don't have the luxury to wait around and find out, especially for Lafreniere.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It would depend on the player, but I dont actually have a problem with moving a first, so long as the return makes sense.
I have a problem moving any of our A prospects outside of Nils or Jones.

This team is going out in round 1 as they currently play. This is not a team you spend a 1st on for a rental. On top of the fact that the Rangers haven't traded a first for a pure rental maybe ever.

 

[IDvsEGO]

This team is going out in round 1 as they currently play. This is not a team you spend a 1st on for a rental. On top of the fact that the Rangers haven't traded a first for a pure rental maybe ever.

Because a hot goaltender has never stolen a series for the rangers?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Because a hot goaltender has never stolen a series for the rangers?

It's the only way they've won. But Igor has to play on his head literally every single night in order for this team to get wins, so eventually that magic is going to run out. The teams they are going to play in round 1 are all better than them. Also, if you know they have to just rely on Igor to win, whats the point in trading for a rental anyway?

 

[I Eat Crow]

I agree completely. I think we are largely in the same page, maybe talking past each other a bit.

I guess you are coming at it from, they made their bed and if they are going to try to win with the current veteran group, might as well go all in.

I can certainly see the argument, just would be personally tough to stomach.

Precisely.

I don't agree with the course of action taken down to each transaction made from 2017 to present day, but here we are. I just don't see the purpose of the moves taken over the course of the past two years in particular if the idea wasn't to go all in and win with this core of players.

Gorton did an excellent job of stocking the cupboard with talent to backfill the roster and to deal to bring in pieces to put the team over.

With the holes this team has at 2C after this year and at 1RW and 1 LHD/2LHD, to bring in players to plug those holes is going to hurt.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The time to add veteran players was after Kakko and Lafreniere were added to the fold, not before.

Now you have two high draft picks playing limited roles as is on the team with nothing to show for it. Letting Lafreniere play in Juniors or Europe with the COVID pandemic and letting Kakko play in Finland for another year after he was drafted if they weren't going to be the go to guys from the get go would have been much, much more beneficial for their development.

I don't think you can blame the Rangers for taking the approach they took. They did add the veterans after Kakko was unofficially part of the organization. Many of us considered winning the lottery and drafting Kakko as a reason to speed the rebuild up. In fact that was the message from the FO at the time, which wasn't unreasonable when you look at how Kakko was being portrayed, and the usual performance of 1st and 2nd overall picks over the last 15 years or so.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but Jeff Marek just said during the 2nd intermission of HNIC the Rangers are in on goalie Mack Guzda from the Barrie Colts of the OHL. 20 yr old; 3.20 GAA this season. A number of teams are also trying to sign him, including the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Thirty One]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but Jeff Marek just said during the 2nd intermission of HNIC the Rangers are in on goalie Mack Guzda from the Barrie Colts of the OHL. 20 yr old; 3.20 GAA this season. A number of teams are also trying to sign him, including the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Mack Guzda Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

He called the Rangers, Penguins and Preds (and presumably the Leafs) frontrunners.

Full season between Owen Sound and Barrie, he's 2.44 0.926.

 

[SA16]

Wonder if this means they're looking to trade Shesterkin for some help at C or RW and then slot Guzda in net for the rest of the season.

 

[rangers1314]

 

[Thirty One]

Wonder if this means they're looking to trade Shesterkin for some help at C or RW and then slot Guzda in net for the rest of the season.

No, he has to finish his junior season.

 

[Thirty One]

The way Elliotte worded that was kind of ambiguous whether the Rangers were interested in Garland too or just Miller I think.

"There's been a lot of rumors about J.T. Miller but I think it goes deeper than that. I think the Canucks have a number of their forwards that they're discussing with teams around the league. I don't think Petterson is part of this, I don't think Horvat is part of this, but I think some other players are a part of this including potentially Conor Garland. And we've all heard some of the rumors. The Rangers, Boston, Calgary and I think New Jersey is in there too, potentially on some players who could have term and team control."

Rangers, Flames and Bruins have been rumored on Miller. I can't see the Rangers picking up a winger with term.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The way Elliotte worded that was kind of ambiguous whether the Rangers were interested in Garland too or just Miller I think.

"There's been a lot of rumors about J.T. Miller but I think it goes deeper than that. I think the Canucks have a number of their forwards that they're discussing with teams around the league. I don't think Petterson is part of this, I don't think Horvat is part of this, but I think some other players are a part of this including potentially Conor Garland. And we've all heard some of the rumors. The Rangers, Boston, Calgary and I think New Jersey is in there too, potentially on some players who could have term and team control."

Rangers, Flames and Bruins have been rumored on Miller. I can't see the Rangers picking up a winger with term.

Elliotte does this stuff a lot lately.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

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[Crease]

Wonder if this means they're looking to trade Shesterkin for some help at C or RW and then slot Guzda in net for the rest of the season.

Almost certainly.

 

[mike14]

Owen Tippett apparently available from the Panthers. If we are going down the 'have patience, wait for the kids' route he could be a RW project option depending on cost

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Owen Tippett apparently available from the Panthers. If we are going down the 'have patience, wait for the kids' route he could be a RW project option depending on cost

Thats a guy who they're probably dangling for Chychrun.

 

[Thirty One]

The way Elliotte worded that was kind of ambiguous whether the Rangers were interested in Garland too or just Miller I think.

"There's been a lot of rumors about J.T. Miller but I think it goes deeper than that. I think the Canucks have a number of their forwards that they're discussing with teams around the league. I don't think Petterson is part of this, I don't think Horvat is part of this, but I think some other players are a part of this including potentially Conor Garland. And we've all heard some of the rumors. The Rangers, Boston, Calgary and I think New Jersey is in there too, potentially on some players who could have term and team control."

Rangers, Flames and Bruins have been rumored on Miller. I can't see the Rangers picking up a winger with term.

Full video here:
Conor Garland potentially available for trade as Canucks forwards draw interest - Sportsnet.ca

 

[bbny]

One thing I will say is that I don't want to see any half measure moves on their own. No "2 2nds and a B prospect for Kessel" type of stuff. No throwing away assets for a 3rd line winger who won't move the needle (Lehkonen). The team needs to either push more into the middle and be serious about it, as they are probably 3 pieces away (2 top 6 wingers and a top 4 LD) from being legit this year. They need to make all of those moves or just sit tight, hold the assets, and start filling those spots in the offseason and next year's trade deadline. The only exception is if it is for a player with term at an affordable cap hit who they plan on keeping for several seasons - not just a rental (i.e., Chychrun).

 

[TheDirtyH]

Garland would fit this team perfectly. So he's obviously going to Boston while we trade for Jason Dickinson or some shit