Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXII

[RangerBoy]

Chris Kreider has 6 goals in his last 30 games. Quinn finally sat him down for portions of the game last night. I know people here love him and think the Rangers rebuild will be set back for the next decade without Kreider on the team. What makes him so indispensable? He has been floating in and out for the past few months. Kreider was great until the New Year. He was holding onto the puck and making plays on every shift. He has reverted back to the same old Kreider. He is a big tease.

Gorton throws out compliments like manhole covers. At the trade deadline conference call, Gorton said Kreider has gotten better and better and he is a good player for the Rangers right now. Gorton mentioned Kreider having a career year in his comments to Custance.

Right now. Career year.

When Matt Keator requests 5-6-7 years at $7M per whenever Gorton talks to him in the next few months, Jeffy needs to find a good deal for Chris and move him. Keator will want his client to get paid after his career year. This will be Kreider’s last big contract. Keator and Kreider planned it this way.



Chris gets his next contract at 29 and not 30.

It’s not like the Rangers view Kreider as a captain material either. Brooks wrote the Rangers feel Kreider would put too much pressure on himself if the Rangers ever gave him the C.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

 

[JimmyG89]

If you look at Kreider's stats from before the new year, he was shooting above his typical shooting percentage and his shot rate was half a shot higher than it has been after the new year. His shooting percentage is also down. He has regressed back to what he typically does. He should clear 30 still, even at this poor of a rate.

I do wonder if he is nursing something after that awkward collision and his leg bending the wrong way last week. Wouldn't excuse his play over the past couple months. Wonder what the issue is and if he should sit based on this.



Since this, he got the assist against Washington on the opening shift and nothing after that. Ice time dropping. I'd like to think he's hurt and playing through something that can't get worse. Pain management. Still, he's 4G and 8A away from a 30/30 season with 15 games left. He'd have to get hot, but he could get there.

I still think re-signing him is the way to go, but if they can get blown away at the draft or in the offseason for him, I'm not opposed to trading him.

 

[Off Sides]

I question the value between the prospects who could be drafted versus Kreider and the late 1st the Rangers will get from the Jets.

Hypothetically, if any of Newhook, Soderstrom, Turcotte, Robertson, (pick your prospect you'd may still do it for) were still on board at some point (say pick 9-14 or so) in the draft, and a trade could be made with the team who holds that pick, would people trade Kreider and the Jets 1st (say it's like #28 or so) for that prospect?

(not trying to say that is a realistic hypothetical, just wondering if people would see that as a good trade or not?)

 

[Edge]

Chris Kreider has 6 goals in his last 30 games. Quinn finally sat him down for portions of the game last night. I know people here love him and think the Rangers rebuild will be set back for the next decade without Kreider on the team. What makes him so indispensable? He has been floating in and out for the past few months. Kreider was great until the New Year. He was holding onto the puck and making plays on every shift. He has reverted back to the same old Kreider. He is a big tease.

Gorton throws out compliments like manhole covers. At the trade deadline conference call, Gorton said Kreider has gotten better and better and he is a good player for the Rangers right now. Gorton mentioned Kreider having a career year in his comments to Custance.

Right now. Career year.

When Matt Keator requests 5-6-7 years at $7M per whenever Gorton talks to him in the next few months, Jeffy needs to find a good deal for Chris and move him. Keator will want his client to get paid after his career year. This will be Kreider’s last big contract. Keator and Kreider planned it this way.



Chris gets his next contract at 29 and not 30.

It’s not like the Rangers view Kreider as a captain material either. Brooks wrote the Rangers feel Kreider would put too much pressure on himself if the Rangers ever gave him the C.

I think the challenge is that we still continue to focus on what Kreider isn't, as compared to what he is.

In Kreider's case, warts and all, he's still probably about a 30 goal scorer.

The elements he doesn't possess in abundance? Contributing reasons to why he isn't a 40 goal scorer.

But I'd have to see what the deal is before I can figure out whether I am okay with it.

 

[haveandare]

Chris Kreider has 6 goals in his last 30 games. Quinn finally sat him down for portions of the game last night. I know people here love him and think the Rangers rebuild will be set back for the next decade without Kreider on the team. What makes him so indispensable? He has been floating in and out for the past few months. Kreider was great until the New Year. He was holding onto the puck and making plays on every shift. He has reverted back to the same old Kreider. He is a big tease.

Gorton throws out compliments like manhole covers. At the trade deadline conference call, Gorton said Kreider has gotten better and better and he is a good player for the Rangers right now. Gorton mentioned Kreider having a career year in his comments to Custance.

Right now. Career year.

When Matt Keator requests 5-6-7 years at $7M per whenever Gorton talks to him in the next few months, Jeffy needs to find a good deal for Chris and move him. Keator will want his client to get paid after his career year. This will be Kreider’s last big contract. Keator and Kreider planned it this way.



Chris gets his next contract at 29 and not 30.

It’s not like the Rangers view Kreider as a captain material either. Brooks wrote the Rangers feel Kreider would put too much pressure on himself if the Rangers ever gave him the C.

Who says anything like the rebuild will be set back a decade without him? The fact is he's a veteran player who came up in this organization and by all accounts is an effective leader on this team which is short on veterans who are actually good players and leaders. Looking at the ongoing dumpster fires from various teams that have been "rebuilding" for a decade and can't get out of the basement, it's pretty reasonable to think that it's important to keep at least some long-term vets that have come up in the organization.

The team will, rightfully, look to shed the other vets like Staal, Smith and Shattenkirk at the first good opportunity, and that's after moving long term organizational vets like McDonagh, Miller, Hayes and Zucc. If we move Kreider also we're left with Hank, who is a great example, but is in a niche position that isn't directly relatable to 99% of the kids we'll be bringing up, and Mika and nobody else. Is that enough? Maybe. Imo it's reasonable to want to keep Chris too for this reason. Add that he and Mika have great chemistry and that even when he's up and down he's usually driving play by the numbers very well, and there's a good case for keeping him depending on what kind of deal he's looking for.

Who wears the C is pretty immaterial at this point. If he's a good leader without it and he provides some stability and leadership for the young players, the letter on his jersey isn't terribly important. UFA mercenaries who haven't been come up with this team or even been around this area for a substantial amount of time can't provide the same type of leadership imo.

 

[haveandare]

I question the value between the prospects who could be drafted versus Kreider and the late 1st the Rangers will get from the Jets.

Hypothetically, if any of Newhook, Soderstrom, Turcotte, Robertson, (pick your prospect you'd may still do it for) were still on board at some point (say pick 9-14 or so) in the draft, and a trade could be made with the team who holds that pick, would people trade Kreider and the Jets 1st (say it's like #28 or so) for that prospect?

(not trying to say that is a realistic hypothetical, just wondering if people would see that as a good trade or not?)

In theory, yes I'd be okay with that but it would depend on what deal he's looking for and where our pick was and who we took.

 

[Edge]

If you're trading Kreider, your best hope is that the interested team wants to get an extension in place before the trade. That's, obviously, where you'll get a better return.

Now whether or not such a scenario exists is another matter.

 

[NernieBichols]

Even if Gorton said we are not interested in signing Panarin(which he can’t do because you can’t talk about players on other teams), people would still link the Rangers with him and every other free agent. It’s a negotiating tactic. The Rangers want the price to come down. They will find a reason to keep linking the Rangers to every big name player.

The Rangers have cap space and they haven’t done anything really stupid in a very long while. Let’s get them back into the mix. Then we can make fun of them for being stupid.

A lot of that comes from the fans too. Not just the media. The New York fans all love free agency. I am a Yankees fan and everyone and their mother had the Yankees signing at least one of Harper or Manny. A good percentage of the fans were annoyed the Yankees didn’t get at least one if those players. They were targeting the winter of 2018 free agent class for 3 years.

The Rangers fans wanted the Rangers to sign Stamkos and Tavares when they were free agents. Shattenkirk too. Now it’s Panarin. It’s always someone.

Stamkos would have been the wrong move, right? Guy was declining

 

[True Blue]

I think the challenge is that we still continue to focus on what Kreider isn't, as compared to what he is.

In Kreider's case, warts and all, he's still probably about a 30 goal scorer.

The elements he doesn't possess in abundance? Contributing reasons to why he isn't a 40 goal scorer.

But whatever he is or isn't, he IS a legit top line wing. That is not up for debate, IMO.

But I'd have to see what the deal is before I can figure out whether I am okay with it.

Agreed. Kreider need not give a hometown discount, but nor can he demand a deal that approaches what the true super stars are getting. His deal should be commensurate with what a top line player is expected to get.

 

[Edge]

But whatever he is or isn't, he IS a legit top line wing. That is not up for debate, IMO.

Agreed. Kreider need not give a hometown discount, but nor can he demand a deal that approaches what the true super stars are getting. His deal should be commensurate with what a top line player is expected to get.

It's part of that ongoing debate about the gray area that sometimes separates first line players, or distinguishes superstars from stars.

 

[Edge]

Stamkos would have been the wrong move, right? Guy was declining

Stamkos would've been the wrong move.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

He's simply not as good as most people think. He's the best forward on this team and so people are desperate to call him the next Guerin... next season will always be his first 40-goal season...

 

[Edge]

He's simply not as good as most people think. He's the best forward on this team and so people are desperate to call him the next Guerin... next season will always be his first 40-goal season...

The majority of people haven't talked 40 goals in a very long time, if ever.

But I think that speaks to two larger problem that we sometimes have around here:

1. We set the bar so high in the early stages, that very few players can ever meet it.

2. We then spend the next half-decade focusing on what a player isn't, rather than what he is.

Those factors than tend to lead into viewpoints than essentially sound like adult-versions of what some of my kids would say, "Well if he can't have all of [Insert desire], I don't want any of it."

Kreider is a first line winger. On this team, probably a 25-30 goal, 50-60 point winger.

On a high-powered offensive team, probably north of 30 goals and north of 60 points.

 

[Off Sides]

If you're trading Kreider, your best hope is that the interested team wants to get an extension in place before the trade. That's, obviously, where you'll get a better return.

Now whether or not such a scenario exists is another matter.

I'm not sure I get the timing of that though.

Season is over, Rangers ask Kreider for his no trade list, gives teams not on it permission to talk to him about an extension, one of those teams and he work something out, and that all happens before the draft, which is before UFA season as well, where both those teams and Kreider would have interest in seeing how that played out.

I kind of think it will come down to the Rangers making him an extension offer, if he does not take it, they are going to ask for his no trade list, and at that point explore trades for the draft.

Which is kind of how I arrive at the Rangers maybe using him to move up in the draft without an extension agreement for that team. Yet the team trading for him is not comfortable with his term left, thus they want back the Jets 1st too so at least even if Kreider walks from them next off-season they still had a 1st from 2019.

Since I do not know enough about the prospects, the tiers, I am not saying I have any idea whether that would be good value or not, just seems like, from reading the draft thread here, this draft has some players who are in the ~9 ~14 range who are far more interesting than anything in the 26-31 range, yet I could be totally off.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

It's part of that ongoing debate about the gray area that sometimes separates first line players, or distinguishes superstars from stars.

Which is easily summed up as 25-25 players simply aren't first liners, no matter whether they play 19-20 minutes. Then you're just misusing them, which NY media/fanfare does to players. For Lundqvist it's merited. for Zucc and Kreider, it's not. Zibanejad, maybe, we'll see.

 

[NernieBichols]

Stamkos would've been the wrong move.

Not necessarily at all. Long term yes, but in the scope of what they were still trying to do. Washington finally broke through after years. Stamkos would have been on the team in 16-17. The Ottawa year. So within that bubble it would might have come up aces.

Mind you, I’m someone who was calling for a full rebuild the moment they lost in 5 to Pitt in 15-16. So I would have liked to begin the rebuild before stamkos was even an option and obviously wouldn’t have been in on him if that had happened.

But based on the fence they were straddling... my main point being some of these guys are not declining. Top end guys. Stamkos, Tavares. They are gonna put up points for years. Saying the rangers shouldn’t sign a FA this summer bc these guys never live up to the bill or start declining soon after is a major generalization.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Yeah, either Kapanen or Johanson.

Low-key move is to OS both, staggered, so they match the first one, and then can't match the other without messing up the rest of their RFA signings.

I’d do this just to see the main board reactions from leaf fans

 

[Edge]

Not necessarily at all. Long term yes, but in the scope of what they were still trying to do. Washington finally broke through after years. Stamkos would have been on the team in 16-17. The Ottawa year. So within that bubble it would might have come up aces.

Mind you, I’m someone who was calling for a full rebuild the moment they lost in 5 to Pitt in 15-16. So I would have liked to begin the rebuild before stamkos was even an option and obviously wouldn’t have been in on him if that had happened.

But based on the fence they were straddling... my main point being some of these guys are not declining. Top end guys. Stamkos, Tavares. They are gonna put up points for years. Saying the rangers shouldn’t sign a FA this summer bc these guys never live up to the bill or start declining soon after is a major generalization.

Stamkos would be an island in an ocean that still would've steadily swallowed up the rest of this roster.

He and Tampa are an ideal relationship and pairing from a timing and support window.

 

[NYR Viper]

I keep coming back to the players to be moved this off-season are Skjei and Kreider. Namestnikov and Fast at next years deadline.

 

[Edge]

Which is easily summed up as 25-25 players simply aren't first liners, no matter whether they play 19-20 minutes. Then your just misusing them, which NY media/fanfare does to players. For Lundqvist it's merited. for Zucc and Kreider, it's not. Zibanejad, maybe, we'll see.

I think there are a lot of teams that would love to have a 25-25 winger on their first line right now.

I think there are a handful of teams for whom the result would not be 25-25 if they had Kreider, and it would have nothing to do with usage.

 

[NernieBichols]

Stamkos would be an island in an ocean that still would've steadily swallowed up the rest of this roster.

He and Tampa are an ideal relationship and pairing from a timing and support window.

I have to say I agree on the particulars on this one

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Which is easily summed up as 25-25 players simply aren't first liners, no matter whether they play 19-20 minutes. Then your just misusing them, which NY media/fanfare does to players. For Lundqvist it's merited. for Zucc and Kreider, it's not. Zibanejad, maybe, we'll see.

Zibanejad’s 63 points is 1st line level and the season isn’t even over yet.

Rangers fans think that a first line player has to be an 80 point guy. Maybe your expectations are wrong? No, it can’t be that!

 

[Edge]

I'm not sure I get the timing of that though.

Season is over, Rangers ask Kreider for his no trade list, gives teams not on it permission to talk to him about an extension, one of those teams and he work something out, and that all happens before the draft, which is before UFA season as well, where both those teams and Kreider would have interest in seeing how that played out.

I kind of think it will come down to the Rangers making him an extension offer, if he does not take it, they are going to ask for his no trade list, and at that point explore trades for the draft.

Which is kind of how I arrive at the Rangers maybe using him to move up in the draft without an extension agreement for that team. Yet the team trading for him is not comfortable with his term left, thus they want back the Jets 1st too so at least even if Kreider walks from them next off-season they still had a 1st from 2019.

Since I do not know enough about the prospects, the tiers, I am not saying I have any idea whether that would be good value or not, just seems like, from reading the draft thread here, this draft has some players who are in the ~9 ~14 range who are far more interesting than anything in the 26-31 range, yet I could be totally off.

If Kreider's moved, I will venture that it will probably involve prospects and not necessarily moving up in the draft or the swapping of draft picks.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If Kreider's moved, I will venture that it will probably involve prospects and not necessarily moving up in the draft or the swapping of draft picks.

Similar to the Stone trade, I’d say. I think Gorton would much rather get one good NHL ready prospect than a package.