Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

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Via The Athletic on Goodrow

“When we get in tight situations, there’s a real calmness about him,” defenseman Jacob Trouba said. “When you get in those situations, you see how he is, his demeanor. He’s been on winning teams and knows what it takes to win. Especially late in games, he’s someone a lot of guys look to to gauge how he’s reacting to certain things. It’s helped us a lot. Our maturity level has gone way up.”
Invaluable to this group.
 
Via The Athletic on Goodrow

“When we get in tight situations, there’s a real calmness about him,” defenseman Jacob Trouba said. “When you get in those situations, you see how he is, his demeanor. He’s been on winning teams and knows what it takes to win. Especially late in games, he’s someone a lot of guys look to to gauge how he’s reacting to certain things. It’s helped us a lot. Our maturity level has gone way up.”

His real value won't be appreciated by most fans until the playoffs begin.
 
I'm trying, I'm just trying differently.
Winnipeg did something quite similar to what you espouse, made no trades for many years, and topped out in the 2nd round. Maybe they made a conference finals, idk.

It's been tried before my dude.
 
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... because the owner didn't have patience to finish it off right.

I know you think that but the results disagree. The asset accumulation stage needed to end when the team realized it had a core of superstars whose prime years they were wasting twiddling their thumbs
 
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I think all we should get at the deadline is a veteran wing. We need a better third liner than Goat. Hopefully Laf gets a shot on the RW of Panarin and takes off with it once Panarin returns. I don't think Drury has much faith in Strome in the playoffs but he's sort of unmovable. The team likes him but no one outside of the rangers wants him. You don't even see trades on the main boards asking for him and they ask about everyone. He came here and did what we needed out of him. He's a passable 2c on a team that's rebuilding that can produce in the regular season but starts to die off as the season gets closer and closer to the playoffs. If Strome is the same Strome of the past two years then this team is down to one line during crunch time and that line all depends on how hot Mika is at the time. This team takes the next step once Strome is gone imo so there's no need for a big rental trade unless it's someone with multiple years still on his contract. We need our big trade chips to go center hunting this offseason.
 
I know you think that but the results disagree. The asset accumulation stage needed to end when the team realized it had a core of superstars whose prime years they were wasting twiddling their thumbs

The team is wrong. It didn't need to end.

As an example, we'd probably be better as we sit here today had we traded Kreider for Robertson and a first. Robertson is 1.09 ppg right now and would probably be thriving here even more on a better team.

As a second example, we are definitely no worse had we traded Buch for Kupari and a first, since Blais isn't even here. The ripple effect had we traded Buch for Kupari and a first instead of Blais is that Kravtsov also makes the team. So we have three more young prime assets in the fold (Kravtsov, Kupari, First Rd Pick) versus a player on IR (and a second, to be fair). I'm not saying Blais to IR was foreseeable.... but what was foreseeable was that his acquisition was redundant, it was grit over skill overkill, and was the wrong move that would have bad consequences for us.

We can still be in competition mode without being dumb about talent acquisition.
 
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Winnipeg did something quite similar to what you espouse, made no trades for many years, and topped out in the 2nd round. Maybe they made a conference finals, idk.

It's been tried before my dude.

I didn't say make no trades.

I said don't trade prime assets for rentals or aging veterans with limited shelf life. I'm A-ok making trades for long term pieces, in fact, I highly advocate it. I was all about trading DeAngelo before he imploded, Kreider before he was extended, Buch before he stupidly was sent away for a bottom-six player, putting together a package for Eichel or the next elite young center that becomes somewhat available, prospect swaps of elite young defenders for elite young forwards, etc. I'm even ok with trading LESS than prime assets for rentals.

And since the Cup winners in 2017, 2018, and 2019 did not need to add any rentals for prime assets, I'm kinda fine with my position.
 
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is he a million overpaid likely but he’s helping the team so oh well is my thoughts

Yeah but this is credit card mentality. The Rangers have too many of these "oh well, we overpaid by a million or two," type of deals. Had to have it now so we can try to win with Zibanejad and a core that definitely falls short of most past winners.
 
True but they've wasted prime opportunities to make the right moves in favor of moves that were clearly wrong at this point, ie, the Blais trade. He was clearly excessive given that we are in first without him. The focus on him was misplaced. They identified correctly that he needed to be moved for cap reasons, but the return they decided they needed was incorrect. They did not need Blais. Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves, etc was enough. They needed future pieces more. It was simply the wrong move. We can enter a verdict on that.

It's not too late to salvage the situation but it probably will never be as good, or as easy, as it was with some of the things we could have done. If we had swapped Kreider for Robertson (who is a PPG player) and a first, and Buch for Kupari and a first, we are sitting pretty right now and still in first place, just with two more young studs and two extra first round picks to trade up and get any center we want in this draft.

You really need to let this go. You're awfully hung up on rumors that may or may not be true & have been reported nowhere else but by an anonymous poster on a message board. Either way, those trades didn't happen & there's no going back.
 
I didn't say make no trades.

I said don't trade prime assets for rentals or aging veterans with limited shelf life. I'm A-ok making trades for long term pieces, in fact, I highly advocate it. I was all about trading DeAngelo before he imploded, Kreider before he was extended, Buch before he stupidly was sent away for a bottom-six player, putting together a package for Eichel or the next elite young center that becomes somewhat available, prospect swaps of elite young defenders for elite young forwards, etc. I'm even ok with trading LESS than prime assets for rentals.

And since the Cup winners in 2017, 2018, and 2019 did not need to add any rentals for prime assets, I'm kinda fine with my position.
it's also an issue of timing. It's not absolutely pressing this summer but a lot of ELCs are expiring in the coming years and that's the time when you're going to see things like more that. The only thing that's likely is that Chytil is moved. Georgiev also but that's like 50/50 odds at best
 
I don’t expect Drury to channel Sather and sell the farm. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he learned enough under Gorton to know that generally blows up in the teams face

I think he’ll be reasonably aggressive though.

Like the 2022 1st is certainly going to be on the table (which is fine because this draft isn’t exactly loaded). Kravstov will absolutely be on the table depending on what the trade is. And then your other standard deadline pieces.
This is where I'm at. You can be aggressive and make some good adds without selling the farm. I think the move is to be a soft buyer. Look to make some adds to legitimately address the issues on the team and actually make an effort to bolster the roster for a deep playoff run but do so without selling the farm.
 
It's funny that it's never brought up but he's soft.

KAM gets so much shit for not being physical but not a peep about Chytil
Yea, and KAM now regularly will ride his check into the boards, nothing crazy but shit like that matters and gets the opponent off balance for a second while KAM is available sooner to receive a pass/play the puck. No longer does he just turn away. And he ties his man up in front and boxes out more efficiently too.

Forget Chytil actually throwing a hit along the boards in a scrum to give his teamates some help. Never finishes a check either but neither one of these is his game which is fine. Where he slightly improved mentally is that he is more willing to try take a hit along the boards to make a play. The only problem is that his balance is such shit and he can't ever bull through the hits, and he reads the play too poorly to get better leverage and put himself in a better position to ever maintain possession. Kakko is already significantly better at this than Chytil is, and Laf is on par with Chytil but showing signs recently of passing by him using his higher IQ.
 
Another reason to trade off surplus youth is you can't play them all, the ones you can play can't all play the minutes they want, and they won't progress the way you'd like when those conditions aren't being satisfied properly, leading them to being diminished assets for both trade purposes and for the parent club.

You monetize your guys because if you horde them they go Group VI (or whatever) at 25 and you get nothing for them anyway.

A guy like Reunanen or that Finnish sniper who's like 5'9 in HFD is a zero for the org and for other teams because they already have their own guys like that. You can't stuff 3 never-will-bes in a box and tack on infinity 4th round picks and get a top 9 deadline forward. It's not a video game. There's a reason Robertson types are the ones traded, and it's not because NHL teams hate their young players and want old dudes.

Youth is also self replenishing. They make new 18 year olds every year!
 
Via The Athletic on Goodrow

“When we get in tight situations, there’s a real calmness about him,” defenseman Jacob Trouba said. “When you get in those situations, you see how he is, his demeanor. He’s been on winning teams and knows what it takes to win. Especially late in games, he’s someone a lot of guys look to to gauge how he’s reacting to certain things. It’s helped us a lot. Our maturity level has gone way up.”

Gallant, Goodrow & Reaves were the "culture" additions this team needed. Clearly the locker room under the previous regime was a disaster with teammates fighting each other, and Quinn treating everyone like a child. Goodrow has helped change the DNA of the team and the rest of the squad has very clearly bought in. I think this team will continue to surprise people
 
Why does chychrun have absolutely insane value? Or is it the fans that overvalue him? He’s in the NHL for 6 years and well I honestly never heard of him. Really shows how shit Arizona hockey is.

I'm not sure if saying you've never heard of the defenseman who led the league in goals last year is something to brag about.
 
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Another reason to trade off surplus youth is you can't play them all, the ones you can play can't all play the minutes they want, and they won't progress the way you'd like when those conditions aren't being satisfied properly, leading them to being diminished assets for both trade purposes and for the parent club.

You monetize your guys because if you horde them they go Group VI (or whatever) at 25 and you get nothing for them anyway.

I don't disagree with any of this. It's what we are getting back that I'm arguing about mostly.

A guy like Reunanen or that Finnish sniper who's like 5'9 in HFD is a zero for the org and for other teams because they already have their own guys like that. You can't stuff 3 never-will-bes in a box and tack on infinity 4th round picks and get a top 9 deadline forward. It's not a video game. There's a reason Robertson types are the ones traded, and it's not because NHL teams hate their young players and want old dudes.

No, this isn't true. Lots of teams would like to have a Reunanen type added to their system especially if it's for a guy that is walking on them after the season. The Reunanens are the types I'm ok trading for a rental.

We aren't overflowing at every position. In fact, we lack RW and C pretty dramatically. Robertson should be monetized if he doesn't fit here, yes.... for a long term piece we need. He's a long term piece, we should get a long term piece back.
 
I don't disagree with any of this. It's what we are getting back that I'm arguing about mostly.



No, this isn't true. Lots of teams would like to have a Reunanen type added to their system especially if it's for a guy that is walking on them after the season. The Reunanens are the types I'm ok trading for a rental.

We aren't overflowing at every position. In fact, we lack RW and C pretty dramatically. Robertson should be monetized if he doesn't fit here, yes.... for a long term piece we need. He's a long term piece, we should get a long term piece back.

Reunanen is the type of player that has zero significant value. Every term has their own version of guys like him. He's an AHL player, he'll get occasional shots in the NHL, and once in a while you'll find one that works out. I would never trade for a guy like over just getting a late pick who at least gives you a low probability of becoming something significant. If teams want guys like Reunanen, Pajuniemi in deals then ship them all out and upgrade.
 
Reunanen is the type of player that has zero significant value. Every term has their own version of guys like him. He's an AHL player, he'll get occasional shots in the NHL, and once in a while you'll find one that works out. I would never trade for a guy like over just getting a late pick who at least gives you a low probability of becoming something significant. If teams want guys like Reunanen, Pajuniemi in deals then ship them all out and upgrade.
Little significant value along, but what if he were to be packaged with Gauthier?
 
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