Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

[mas0764]

Even with a few adds, I don’t think this team is ready to make a serious push for the Cup this year.

Robertson has become completely overshadowed since drafting Schneider. That doesn’t mean we should dangle him for a playoff rental. He’s too good a prospect for that imo.

Agree on all counts.

Now is not the year to go all in.

For all those saying "THIS IS THE YEAR, we'll never have a better chance."

What the hell are you talking about?

Pittsburgh is in decline, Boston is in decline, Washington is getting older, the Lightning are cobbling together a roster trying to stay under the cap but will continue to bleed assets.

The future of this league is us, the Hurricanes, the Avalanche, maybe the Maple Leafs and the Oilers because of the top end talent they have.

This is absolutely not our best chance. Even discounting that our true window is going to be built around the maturity of Shesterkin-Fox-Kakko-Lafreniere, we still are not at the end of the line for Zibanejad and Kreider. And Panarin is going to be elite till he's like 35.

 

[mas0764]

A ton. Looking through CapFriendly, a number of teams are missing quality d-men even on their second pair.

There’s almost a kind of talent dilution at the moment. Between injuries and COVID-protocol, depth could be king this postseason.

And if we recognize this and play our cards right we could turn Robinson into a stud center prospect.

Why are we selling him off for a 38 year old?

 

[mas0764]

All the more reason to not be buyers at the deadline. Those are needs you address with long term additions, not rentals. Especially not rentals in exchange for a 1st or a top prospect.

Hallelujah! Amen!

 

[mas0764]

You’ll agree, we could move extras like cap space, Hajek, Georgiev, maybe Chytil, to bolster the team for the playoffs. No need to mortgage the future but clearly we should take out best shot.

I would dangle Georgiev to Edmonton to see if I could get Holloway all day long. I'll even add.

The Rangers still need to be in the business of finalizing their long term construction before they are paying for a single playoff push.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'd rather see what guys like Chytil and Gauthier can do in the playoffs instead of castoffs like Kessel or Radulov. See what you have in the guys you already have and make your push next season. Use this year to get the young guys experience so they understand what it takes to win in the playoffs. Someone like Pavelski would be a good get but I doubt he's available. Smith was the guy I wanted but it looks like VGK dodged a bullet with the Patch injury.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'll say this, seeing what Drury and Gallant have been able to get out of this team so far in a tough division, shows how possible these goals were that Dolan had in mind. Gorton and Davidson preaching patience while basically committing to another season of Quinn would've been a complete mistake and just goes to show you how much of a correct decision it was, although an unpopular one at the time, it was to move on from both guys.

I think Quinn was done either way, and if you listen to Gorts interviews since he was let go he made it pretty clear that they planned to add the grit and sandpaper to the roster this past summer as well. Now that doesnt mean that he would have done what drury did, but this idea that Gorts was just going to sit around and do nothing for another year just isnt accurate.

Regardless, the changes made last season seem to be working out for everyone at this point. JD is back where he has seemed most comfortable as an executive, Gorts is in a higher profile position, Quinn will propbably do better in his second job when he is hired, Gallant has reestablished himself as a top coach, and Drury has done a solid job here and brought stability to things.

 

[mas0764]

Yep. There is a middle ground. Use the cap and some of the lesser futures to improve. Don’t need to go nuts. But surely a Kessel would be of value. And maybe we can get a forward from Las Vegas for cap space. Something like that.

I'm all for making available roster players like Hajek, Gauthier, etc, who may have reclamation value, or, alternatively, prospects who are totally buried or not ever likely to bring back elite pieces - Gettinger, Reunanen, Skinner, Vierling, Henriksson, Grubbe, Garand, etc. Finally, I'm ok with trading seconds or later pretty much all day long.

 

[mas0764]

With no goaltending we end up being the oilers.

Our defense and goaltending coaching is too good for us to become the Oilers.

 

[mas0764]

Ideally, they can upgrade the Strome/Panarin RW spot and 3rd Line Center. All 3 of Chytil/Hunt/Gauthier cant be in the top 9 in a playoff series. Defense has become less of a priority in my eyes because of the encouraging play from Jones/Lundkvist, but i assume they will still add a vet D for a mid-round pick because guys wear down. Depth is the name of the game in a covid year.

Faksa is a really interesting one, but 4 years left on his contract might be prohibitive. Just spitballing, but if Dallas truly gives up, overpaying to get Hintz at 50% retained would be a great move. Similar to when they gave up Duclair to get Yandle for a miniscule salary for 2 playoff runs.

Chytil+Kravtsov+1st for Hintz @ 1.6 mil for 2 years.

Thats the type of trade Drury should be making if he wants to add a guy with term.

I'm not thrilled with that package for Hintz but it's at least more along the lines of something that makes sense for where the Rangers are at. A 25 year old top 6 center that you could hopefully keep long term.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I agree they're going to (and frankly should) be buyers, it's just a question of what kind of buyers they're going to be.

I'd much rather deal surplus older players/prospects (think 2019 and older drafts) than our younger prospects/ELC players, or futures for that matter. Until the older part of our core starts to decline and we have to go all-in or retool, we're going to need those picks to keep replenishing cheap talent on the roster. Unless the deal serves a long-term need, then of course that changes things.

I don’t expect Drury to channel Sather and sell the farm. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he learned enough under Gorton to know that generally blows up in the teams face

I think he’ll be reasonably aggressive though.

Like the 2022 1st is certainly going to be on the table (which is fine because this draft isn’t exactly loaded). Kravstov will absolutely be on the table depending on what the trade is. And then your other standard deadline pieces.

 

[mas0764]

I'd rather see what guys like Chytil and Gauthier can do in the playoffs instead of castoffs like Kessel or Radulov. See what you have in the guys you already have and make your push next season. Use this year to get the young guys experience so they understand what it takes to win in the playoffs. Someone like Pavelski would be a good get but I doubt he's available. Smith was the guy I wanted but it looks like VGK dodged a bullet with the Patch injury.

I feel like I'm not ready to give up on Chytil and that I might even be interested in seeing him at wing, but I'm totally over Gauthier. I would be seeking to move him if I can find good value, even if I'm resetting by getting a younger prospect for him who isn't NHL ready. He's a zero. I don't think the Rangers would miss him by subbing in Barron instead.

 

[haohmaru]

... because the owner didn't have patience to finish it off right.

Jury hasn’t reached a verdict yet on that.

 

[mas0764]

Another year of trotting out PDG and others and Quinn behind the bench was better for the young players' development? LMAO.

I didn't say that, did I?

They're learning how to play the game the right way and WIN now while also remaining patient with the young kids. They have star prospects all over the place.

Ok.

They still need at least 1 young, long term center and 1 young, long term RW (unless they bring back Kravtsov).

I'd prefer to get two young centers into the system, frankly.

 

[bleedblue94]

So is the plan to wait a couple more years to reinforce a top 5 NHL team further and wait for panarin, zib, kreider, ect to be in their mid 30s and for our elc contracts to be bloated deals before making a run? Bold strategy. You win with elite players playing at an elite level, you dont wait for your elite players to be aging out. Messier is an interesting case bc I feel he is often full of shit when he speaks anymore, but he made a good point recently when asked about the cap era and he commented that if anything the cap era has shown that every team will have a deficiency, it is virtually impossible to build a complete team or if you do to keep it together. I agree with him on this. So why would you sit back and wait longer when we have two mvp type level players (panarin and igor), a norris winner, a 40g 1c still in his prime, and a LOT of ingredients needed to make a run already in place. We arent going to build the perfect team and even if we do it would be a one and done type shot with such a group. This is a top 5 team in the NHL and is passing almost every test thrown at it, they keep on winning and they have that swagger that has been missing from NYR teams for almost half a decade...

 

[mas0764]

Jury hasn’t reached a verdict yet on that.

True but they've wasted prime opportunities to make the right moves in favor of moves that were clearly wrong at this point, ie, the Blais trade. He was clearly excessive given that we are in first without him. The focus on him was misplaced. They identified correctly that he needed to be moved for cap reasons, but the return they decided they needed was incorrect. They did not need Blais. Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves, etc was enough. They needed future pieces more. It was simply the wrong move. We can enter a verdict on that.

It's not too late to salvage the situation but it probably will never be as good, or as easy, as it was with some of the things we could have done. If we had swapped Kreider for Robertson (who is a PPG player) and a first, and Buch for Kupari and a first, we are sitting pretty right now and still in first place, just with two more young studs and two extra first round picks to trade up and get any center we want in this draft.

 

[Vitto79]

Chytil for Zadina make any sense ?

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

Why does chychrun have absolutely insane value? Or is it the fans that overvalue him? He’s in the NHL for 6 years and well I honestly never heard of him. Really shows how shit Arizona hockey is.

 

[mas0764]

So is the plan to wait a couple more years to reinforce a top 5 NHL team further and wait for panarin, zib, kreider, ect to be in their mid 30s and for our elc contracts to be bloated deals before making a run? Bold strategy. You win with elite players playing at an elite level, you dont wait for your elite players to be aging out. Messier is an interesting case bc I feel he is often full of shit when he speaks anymore, but he made a good point recently when asked about the cap era and he commented that if anything the cap era has shown that every team will have a deficiency, it is virtually impossible to build a complete team or if you do to keep it together. I agree with him on this. So why would you sit back and wait longer when we have two mvp type level players (panarin and igor), a norris winner, a 40g 1c still in his prime, and a LOT of ingredients needed to make a run already in place. We arent going to build the perfect team and even if we do it would be a one and done type shot with such a group. This is a top 5 team in the NHL and is passing almost every test thrown at it, they keep on winning and they have that swagger that has been missing from NYR teams for almost half a decade...

Who says wait? Do we not get to play the games with these elite pieces we have?

Just saying not to trade away top prospects for rentals.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The biggest knock on the Rangers is youth and playoff inexperience. I think they need to go through the gauntlet at least once before making any big moves. They have a good team, make one or two smart moves and roll the dice.

 

[mas0764]

Chytil for Zadina make any sense ?

Worth considering IMO. Or Kravtsov.

Not sure I'd pull the trigger. He's struggled pretty bad.

 

[effen]

I’m also not sure you are using that word properly.

I figured. It's ok.

 

[RGY]

We've begun the push. There is nothing to say you can't do both.

I'm saying guys like Nils, Kravtsov, Chytil, our top prospects and young players should be off the table for guys who are 38 or who walk in 4 months.

It's still considered a push if they are traded in a package for, say, Eichel, which I would have approved of just fine. That's a transitional push.

As for how many prospects, the Rangers need center help. Even if Strome is re-signed, the Rangers organizational focus should be on more than this season and next season. They don't have a ton of immediate needs other than right wing and home-grown development (for heaven's sake, they have too many LWs and defenders to play them all as it is), so these excess assets they have should be bulwarking the future by finding young centers for the organization.

As I said, I'm fine trading seconds, thirds, etc, for some reinforcement, as we saw the 2017, 2018, and 2019 Cup winners do, but the PRIME assets should be moved for more PRIME pieces. For us that's high-end young RWs and centers. People have argued we cannot afford to add an Eichel. That is true if we do not move on from a guy like Trouba (which Edge is confirmed is being discussed), but if we can't afford it, then target a young Newhook or Holloway or someone like that. Or focus on trading up in the draft. These things are possible. There is historical precedent. It's hard, but doable.



Not full force, but again, citing the work done in the Athletic as to the template for modern Cup winners we fall short by any measurement. We probably need another top center and another top winger for the future. If we have excess assets they should first be addressing that shortfall.

I've said guys like Reilly Smith are fine addition if they are for later picks. What I am repulsed by is these suggestions of "Well, can we get 30 year old Gourde and 38 year old Giordano for 4 months if we trade Nils, Kravtsov, Chytil, and a first?"

No.

No, no, no.

I think a lot of what you are saying is fair and rational. But I also think you will be hard pressed to find the perfect trade. There is going to be an instance where they make a trade and fans will feel they either “won”’the deal or they overpaid. It always happens. I mean I think the Buch trade was a 1st rd pick instead of a 2nd from being a more tolerable deal.

I think a Pavelski/Klingberg trade would be worth including Chytil + + in. I just dont know what the +’s are. Maybe its Hajek if he continues to play well. Then a 2nd and 3rd with conditions on the 3rd becoming a 2nd if they make the ECF. The 2nd could be the other 2022 pick in that round or the 2023 2nd. Maybe the 2nd has conditions that it becomes a 1st if they win the cup.

 

[effen]

Let’s be honest here. Most of the time, buying at the deadline results in failure (you don’t win the Cup).

I don’t understand the league’s obsession with it.

 

[haohmaru]

Via The Athletic on Goodrow

“When we get in tight situations, there’s a real calmness about him,” defenseman Jacob Trouba said. “When you get in those situations, you see how he is, his demeanor. He’s been on winning teams and knows what it takes to win. Especially late in games, he’s someone a lot of guys look to to gauge how he’s reacting to certain things. It’s helped us a lot. Our maturity level has gone way up.”

 

[mas0764]

I'm trying, I'm just trying differently.