Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXI

[Tawnos]

You should bookmark this post.

Then see if you're happy if/when the Rangers, as a team, are truly ready to compete and a 30+ year old Panarin is making $11M a year.

I am much more interested in the Rangers being patient and concentrating on building the foundation over the next couple of years.

I don't think signing Panarin represents impatience. Signing Panarin and Karlsson might represent that. Signing a lesser UFA like Skinner might represent that,.

 

[duhmetreE]

???????????????

We have cap space. So, what are the negatives?

If anything we should be using the cap space during a rebuild. We he have sufficient cap to sign Panarin, ALL RFA's this year AND in 2021.

If what Gorton does is great and sustainable, we'd be selling off established players to have capable younger players take over. This is the never ending cycle.

Signing players like Shattenkirk and Staal have negative side effects because there's no value. Having Lundqivst make 8.5 until he's 39 is a negative because of the value.

Signing Panarin, a ppg player who continues to uptrend, until he's 32-33, is nothing like those cases.

Signing average players to big deals is a negative. Signing long-term deals that bring players into their late 30's is a negative.

So what you're saying is a half truth. It doesn't apply to Panarin.

 

[True Blue]

What negative side effects?

Is this a real question?

A rebuilding team needs cap maneuverability. A rebuilding team does not need to hand out a 7 or 8 year contract rife with NTC/NMC to an UFA.

 

[Off Sides]

I agree, the same reasoning that would put Panarin out of the timeline would do the same for Kreider.

 

[True Blue]

I disagree, especially in the situation with Kreider. I get Zibanejad because he has 3 years left and the team could potentially be good enough in 2 or 3 years, which is also why I want to sign Panarin who should still be effective by then. But giving Kreider a long-term deal while being unwilling to sign Panarin makes zero sense, and no amount of leadership and being homegrown would change that.

Kreider is already a force in the locker room. He is a home grown Rangers. Panarin would be a mercenary, coming here for the highest pay day. I would certainly rather have the former leading the kids, than the later. This is not to mention that Kreider's board work and ability as a net front presence will still work well as he gets older and slower and his work out habits are outstanding.

 

[offdacrossbar]

would panarin want to sign here with this roster ?

serious question.

the guy that would have fed panarin pucks plays in winnipeg now. if we had 13, 20 and 93 all still here and added panarin, then i could see it but again, with all the other mistakes still on this roster, that wasn't going to happen.

im sorry, but looking at this roster right now, panarin isn't the right move for a team serious about rebuilding and showing patience. im confused, wasnt 20 available at the deadline ?

dont get me wrong, hes legit and would give us a real scoring threat but with this tire fire defense and an aging 30 on the downside of an amazing career, why would he want to come here and miss the playoffs ?

were 2-3 years away from really taking advance of panarins ability to score goals and that makes him 30 yrs old and once again, a guy were looking to offload.

 

[Drew4u]

They should follow the leafs. Aquire an elite talent through F.A AFTER getting foundational pieces from the draft. Timing is everything.

 

[JimmyG89]

We're going to be more in the RFA market than UFA market. I'd be more willing to trade for one of these top young guns that need new deals that their team cannot afford. Trouba has been discussed endlessly, but they have cap space, even for Laine and Connor. Kapanen or Johnsson. Marner will take most of their space and they'll still need to make a move. We don't have the assets for a Marner trade.

Kapanen/Johnsson + Horton's contract for ___________?

We have the space for a contact like Horton, which next season is his last. Leafs are trying to win now. Kapanen going to ask for $4M? He has no arb rights. Johnsson is arb eligible. Leafs could take the 1 year for him at a somewhat reduced price. They still need to make more moves even with these kind of trades unless we are sending an ELC/unsigned prospects/picks back.

 

[duhmetreE]

Is this a real question?

A rebuilding team needs cap maneuverability. A rebuilding team does not need to hand out a 7 or 8 year contract rife with NTC/NMC to an UFA.

Why do we need cap maneuverability? The predominant amount of the team will be under controlled years.

And 6-7 years, hopefully 6.

 

[duhmetreE]

would panarin want to sign here with this roster ?

serious question.

the guy that would have fed panarin pucks plays in winnipeg now. if we had 13, 20 and 93 all still here and added panarin, then i could see it but again, with all the other mistakes still on this roster, that wasn't going to happen.

im sorry, but looking at this roster right now, panarin isn't the right move for a team serious about rebuilding and showing patience. im confused, wasnt 20 available at the deadline ?

dont get me wrong, hes legit and would give us a real scoring threat but with this tire fire defense and an aging 30 on the downside of an amazing career, why would he want to come here and miss the playoffs ?

were 2-3 years away from really taking advance of panarins ability to score goals and that makes him 30 yrs old and once again, a guy were looking to offload.

That's a futile debate, 'If he wants to sign here'.

Kevin Hayes is/was not the player I'm looking at to play with Panarin.

Panarin Zibs Kravtsov is what I'd hope to see in the future.
Kreider ????? Buch/Chytil

????? = Hopefully Turcotte or another 1st rounder from this year as the cieling. Andersson as the floor

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

You should bookmark this post.

Then see if you're happy if/when the Rangers, as a team, are truly ready to compete and a 30+ year old Panarin is making $11M a year.

I am much more interested in the Rangers being patient and concentrating on building the foundation over the next couple of years.

Why is everything being viewed as mutually exclusive?

You can sign Panarin to be your elite and veteran leader, a rare player who is truly elite, in his prime and will be worth the high ticket he signs, AND also be patient with prospects and have a largely homegrown core.

I'm not saying sign Panarin, Karlsson, Skinner and make some win now trades. I'm not saying abandon the process. I'm not saying start trading the kids and trying to win now.

I just think the opportunity to get an elite talent who will most likely remain elite through most if not all of his deal shouldn't be discarded on the surface just because we're rebuilding. Panarin can be a piece of the rebuild.

As far as what Panarin's 11m cap hit will look like when he's in his early 30's...it will probably be large but if the cap jumps as much as many are projecting with the next TV deal and expansion coming, we could be looking at him being a pretty fair deal percentage wise.

Idk, I'd rather overpay an elite guy that be able to afford a few mediocre guys. 1 elite guy > 2 or 3 decent middle 6 players. This entire thread is about trying to get elite talent. I'm not talking overpay some mediocre free agent. Panarin is a bonafide star, top 5 player at his position in the league. He's elite. He will likely remain elite for at least 5 more seasons if not more.

Him being a legitimately elite talent is the caveat here. I feel like it's being over looked. I'm not saying it just for argument sake, it's the truth: in the NHL today players of Panarin's age and caliber almost never hit UFA. Tavares was basically the first. The overwhelming majority of elite players get locked up into their 30s by their teams. I just see this situation as a unique opportunity.

 

[Tawnos]

Why is everything being viewed as mutually exclusive?

The monolithic thought processes on this board drive me crazy sometimes.

 

[True Blue]

Why do we need cap maneuverability? The predominant amount of the team will be under controlled years.

And 6-7 years, hopefully 6.

Because you will need to re-up your younger players. Because you will need to re-sign your own vets. Because simply believing that cap room is not necessary can lead to foolhardy things. You can begin to clog cap space when you have a foundation in place. It does not make sense to try to install a hot tub before you have build the foundation for your house.

And the realistic number of years is more than likely 7-8.

 

[effen]

We have cap space. So, what are the negatives?

One of two things happens:
He wants to win now --> It necessitates acquiring a legit 2nd line center immediately and kneecaps the rebuild as a result. Remember they are capped out now, it'll be dump + assets + actual cost of 2nd line C to get one. That's, uh, a lot.

He doesn't care about winning now --> this seems very, very bad. there is ample history of this not working out.

It also removes a lot of flexibility.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Because you will need to re-up your younger players. Because you will need to re-sign your own vets. Because simply believing that cap room is not necessary can lead to foolhardy things. You can begin to clog cap space when you have a foundation in place. It does not make sense to try to install a hot tub before you have build the foundation for your house.

And the realistic number of years is more than likely 7-8.

Even with Panarin's contract, the Rangers won't have issues re-signing their own players.

 

[True Blue]

Even with Panarin's contract, the Rangers won't have issues re-signing their own players.

$11m or so and that will not be an issue? At some point you will need to resign ZBad. If Krieder is not traded, then him as well. You will also need to put players on bridge deals. 3-4 years from now, you will want to bring in UFAs to augment the base.

 

[SA16]

That other guy Ottawa traded was pretty big.

The guy that they wanted to re-sign that they traded at the deadline when they couldn't come to an agreement? That doesn't exactly strike me as "available in the offseason."

 

[Beer League Sniper]

They should follow the leafs. Aquire an elite talent through F.A AFTER getting foundational pieces from the draft. Timing is everything.

While I agree, TOR is still in a world of hurt. Not because of the Tavares contract, but because of the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts. Second tier guys that they way overpaid.

 

[effen]

Even with Panarin's contract, the Rangers won't have issues re-signing their own players.

Only looking year-by-year is how the Rangers are in this place to begin with. Giving Panarin 11M+ and being forced to bridge your RFAs (they will be forced) is how you end up 5 years from now capped out with the 13th best team ITL.

Chicago literally gave away Teravainen (ppg player) and functionally gave away Panarin (the guy we're talking about) because they went year by year and figure it out later. It's bad.

 

[DanielBrassard]

$11m or so and that will not be an issue? At some point you will need to resign ZBad. If Krieder is not traded, then him as well. You will also need to put players on bridge deals. 3-4 years from now, you will want to bring in UFAs to augment the base.

Assuming the cap grows, which it should as long as the canadian dollar doesn't collapse.

 

[NernieBichols]

Can you point to anything at all that would support your belief that the rebuild is over and Gorton is all in on UFAs this summer?

I can’t share it no. And I’ve got my reasons for not sharing and for believing it

 

[wafflepadsave]

Why is everything being viewed as mutually exclusive?

You can sign Panarin to be your elite and veteran leader, a rare player who is truly elite, in his prime and will be worth the high ticket he signs, AND also be patient with prospects and have a largely homegrown core.

I'm not saying sign Panarin, Karlsson, Skinner and make some win now trades. I'm not saying abandon the process. I'm not saying start trading the kids and trying to win now.

I just think the opportunity to get an elite talent who will most likely remain elite through most if not all of his deal shouldn't be discarded on the surface just because we're rebuilding. Panarin can be a piece of the rebuild.

As far as what Panarin's 11m cap hit will look like when he's in his early 30's...it will probably be large but if the cap jumps as much as many are projecting with the next TV deal and expansion coming, we could be looking at him being a pretty fair deal percentage wise.

Idk, I'd rather overpay an elite guy that be able to afford a few mediocre guys. 1 elite guy > 2 or 3 decent middle 6 players. This entire thread is about trying to get elite talent. I'm not talking overpay some mediocre free agent. Panarin is a bonafide star, top 5 player at his position in the league. He's elite. He will likely remain elite for at least 5 more seasons if not more.

Him being a legitimately elite talent is the caveat here. I feel like it's being over looked. I'm not saying it just for argument sake, it's the truth: in the NHL today players of Panarin's age and caliber almost never hit UFA. Tavares was basically the first. The overwhelming majority of elite players get locked up into their 30s by their teams. I just see this situation as a unique opportunity.

Agreed but also think that second paragraph has the makings of a song! Would anybody want to take a stab at a chorus?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think a guy like Kreider is in the grey area of keepable, but Zibanejad is a core piece for the future or this team.

The blossoming of Zibanejad as a player (and, more recently, the play of DeAngelo) has pretty much been the sole sense of enjoyment watching this season for me.

 

[UlfSamuelsson]

Just my opinion, and understand nothing is guaranteed, but I think we should wait until we have that bonafide #1 stud to build around.

We should give it two more drafts to try. If this draft and the next one go by without acquiring that guy, so be it. We will have a team chock full of high end talent AND tons of cap.

If we can get in the top three either this year or most likely next year I think this ship will be set on the right course.

I don’t want big free agents now being locked up and costing us young talent to RFA hold outs in 5-6 years as they age. I feel that we just aren’t there yet.

Take on short, bad contracts. Acquire assets. Picks are great, would like to focus on RFAs if we could. We will get there. Time will tell, this offseason is huge for the future of NYR.

 

[GAGLine]

While I agree, TOR is still in a world of hurt. Not because of the Tavares contract, but because of the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts. Second tier guys that they way overpaid.

The cap will probably be 83 mil next year and they'll be paying in excess of 33 mil to 3 players, assuming Marner gets similar to what Matthews got. That doesn't sound like a recipe for long term success. Their offense was already good. I think they would have been better off addressing the defense.