Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXI

[GoAwayPanarin]

You guys are getting crazy. What makes anyone think the rangers are ever gonna be worse than right now and they are still 6-9. If panarin will sign, they are gonna sign him. He’s a top line player, started late. Bank on it. Gorton is in on him. There is no chance in heck the rangers are gonna be worse than this year going forward, with or without panarin. The pick is gonna be 8-18 regardless. The idea that the rangers are gonna be bottom-5 without panarin is wishful thinking. Y’all better hope they start losing and than get lucky in the lottery. Bc this year is the only chance. Bet my pants on it

How can I trust that you're wearing pants?

 

[Ghost of jas]

How can I trust that you're wearing pants?

This post comes up the top of the page as a stand alone without whom you're quoting for me. It is glorious.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And in 2 years, the Rangers will also hopefully have their core in place.

If they don't have a core in place 2 years from now, they're not going anywhere anyway. What's the difference between having Panarin and not?

Basically what you're saying is that, had the Blackhawks signed Hossa in 2007, Keith, Toews, and Kane never would've developed. I don't buy it.

No one is saying that.

If they signed Hossa in 2005, they don't have Keith and Kane though.

 

[Alluckks]

Gorton stuttered and therefore I’m pretty sure I know his plan for the next several years

Lol

 

[duhmetreE]

You're missing an important component. If we are trading for a Panarin, it won't be a 28 year old Panarin. It will be someone younger who maybe isn't as good as Panarin, but has the potential to be that good.

Seguin, Hall, Wheeler, Panarin, Burns, Kessel, O'Reilly, Duchene, Teravainen, Domi, Skinner, Lindholm, Zibanejad, Voracek, Palmieri.

All of these players were traded prior to becoming free agents, some of them more than once. All of these players are good and some are great/elite.

What if Mitch Marner becomes available? Let's say they sign Matthews, but Marner holds out, and they decide to trade him. Oh, but we already used up our cap space on Panarin, at least 2 years before we are realistically ready to compete. Or maybe they decide to trade Nylander instead so they can sign Marner. Nylander would cost less, but he'd still be a good player for us to get, and we'd need the cap space to be able to add him. Maybe none of these things happen and no good young players become available, but if we sign Panarin, we may not have the cap space to take advantage of an opportunity if it does come around.

So no, it's not a resounding "yes" that we should try to sign Panarin. What I outlined above isn't the only concern. The other concern is our timeline. We are all thinking that this team should be ready to compete again in 2021-22, once the big contracts are off the books. But what if we aren't ready by then? What if it takes another 2 years? How many years of Panarin's prime are we willing to waste? Panarin turns 28 less than a month into next season. In 2021-22, he will be 30. He may still be just as good then as he is now. Will he be just as good 2 years later? 3 years later? How many years of elite Panarin will we get while our cup window is open?

Obviously, if we could find a way to get a player like Marner, we would be getting many more years of high quality play (all other factors being equal, such as injuries). Yes, it would cost us more than just cap space, but he would fit better with the age of the rest of our players and allow us to be true cup contenders for a longer period of time.

The situation in Toronto certainly bears watching. Florida is interesting too. There was a rumor about Huberdeau possibly being available. I can't imagine why they would trade him instead of Hoffman, but if they are all in on Bob/Panarin as has been rumored, and they are willing to trade Huberdeau to make room, that would certainly be worth exploring. And then there's Tampa, who will have to find a way to sign Point. They only have 16 players under contract for next year and if the cap goes up to 83 mil, they will still have less than 10 mil to work with. Maybe we use our cap space to take Callahan in exchange for a good prospect, or maybe we trade Kreider++ for Point.

I'm not trying to say that it's likely that such an opportunity will present itself. I'm just pointing out that just because Panarin is elite and he is available and we have the cap space doesn't automatically mean we should try to sign him. There are certainly reasons to do it, but there are reasons not to, as well.

It's paralyzing to go on with 'what ifs' in either direction.

You play the percentages. Acquiring another Zibanejad, althought possible, is unlikely. Panarin gives us the best chance to win, now and in the future. We get to keep our prospects and picks and if a scenario comes up, as you've mentioned, we could still pursue it.

It's not one or the other. We have cap room. We have prospects to make trades. We do not have a player to the level of Panarin ( possibly/hopefully Kravtsov ). The team will be predominately ELCs. We can sign Panarin AND trade for a player like Huberdeau, Nylander etc.

P.S. Marner and Point are not going anywhere, I know you just used them as possible examples. Players like that do not get traded.

We could trade for former 1st round talents, not hitting their full potential yet. Domi cost Galchenyuk. Lindholm andHanifin cost Hamilton, Ferland and Fox. Voracek cost Carter. Chia traded away an all-star team for scraps. Duchene cost OTT an arm and a leg. Panarin will not stop any of these trades from happening, if anything he'd help.

Gorton hit it out of the park with the Zibs/Brass swap. This is really not likely to happen again.

 

[NernieBichols]

How can I trust that you're wearing pants?

How can you trust gorton isn’t gonna sign panarin?

 

[duhmetreE]

Looking back on Toronto signing Tavares this past summer, was it the right move for them? Yes or no, and why?

I think it was the wrong move because they didn't need more offense. They had more than enough top end offensive talent.

BUT with Tavares, they could afford to trade a young player for a defenseman

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How can you trust gorton isn’t gonna sign panarin?

I think he'll be in on him, I have my doubts as to how far he'll go/how bad Panarin actually wants to be here.

 

[Good Intentions]

I don’t want Panarin and I believe someone else will grossly outbid all for him.

Remember - reading the same Blueshirt Nation article does not bring a deal closer to fruition.

It’s rarely the deal you expect.

It’ll be something else.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Without a doubt the right move. They should have moved nylander immediately afterwards for a proven top 4 and another guy who will become top 4 in time. They’d be favorites right now

Right move now? Possibly.

Let’s see how quickly they regret that contract in year 3, 5, and 7 when he’s 31, 33, and 35 years old.

Another scenario is someone offersheeting Marner this summer.

When you have to potentially start moving out young quality players who haven’t peaked for an 11M UFA that’s not your best player, it could damn well be a problem.

 

[NernieBichols]

I think he'll be in on him, I have my doubts as to how far he'll go/how bad Panarin actually wants to be here.

I get that. I have questions about both those things too. I think it’s pretty assured they will be knocking

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Right move now? Possibly.

Let’s see how quickly they regret that contract in year 3, 5, and 7 when he’s 31, 33, and 35 years old.

Another scenario is someone offersheeting Marner this summer.

When you have to potentially start moving out young quality players who haven’t peaked for an 11M UFA that’s not your best player, it could damn well be a problem.

I want to poach Kapanen from them.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Hawks lost to the Red Wings in the WCF in 2008-09. They had their team set up & ready to go. They brought in Hossa to help put them over the top. They had identified all of their core pieces.

The Rangers have so much work to do. They need to find their #1 center and #1 D in the draft. All of their key young players are babies. All of them are 19 & 20 year old kids.

The Rangers are tied for the fewest ROW wins in the NHL with Detroit at 21. They are 6-3 in the shootout and 1-8 in OT. Their 11 shootout/OT losses and their 6 shootout wins skew how bad the Rangers really are.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The Hawks lost to the Red Wings in the WCF in 2008-09. They had their team set up & ready to go. They brought in Hossa to help put them over the top. They had identified all of their core pieces.

The Rangers have so much work to do. They need to find their #1 center and #1 D in the draft. All of their key young players are babies. All of them are 19 & 20 year old kids.

The Rangers are tied for the fewest ROW wins in the NHL with Detroit at 21. They are 6-3 in the shootout and 1-8 in OT. Their 11 shootout/OT losses and their 6 shootout wins skew how bad the Rangers really are.

The Rangers definitely took the title from the Devils as Kings of the Loser Point.

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers are tied for the fewest ROW wins in the NHL with Detroit at 21. They are 6-3 in the shootout and 1-8 in OT. Their 11 shootout/OT losses and their 6 shootout wins skew how bad the Rangers really are.

That means at the end of the game they were tied 18 times - actually a pretty positive sign. Their goal differential is 8th worst in the NHL - I'd say that tells you where they're at and considering we're (still) throwing Staal out there each and every night it's really not that bad.

This team works and competes and doesn't get blown out a lot. I think there's a lot to like here, personally. Definitely exceeded my expectations. I was throwing up in my mouth in October looking at this defensive corps.

 

[Barnaby]

Someone mentioned that the timing has to be like when the Hawks signed Hossa. Guess what? He was 30. Panarin will be 28. So you're basically talking about getting Hossa, but instead of coming into a situation of an up and coming team, he'll already be here. That's the only difference.

Or Panarin makes you finish in a position where you're a bubble team... not good enough to contend or bad enough for top picks...

 

[True Blue]

Or Panarin makes you finish in a position where you're a bubble team... not good enough to contend or bad enough for top picks...

Add Panarin to this team as is, and they finish in exactly the same spot.

 

[haohmaru]

Add Panarin to this team as is, and they finish in exactly the same spot.

Panarin can score in OT, so I beg to differ.

 

[True Blue]

How can you trust gorton isn’t gonna sign panarin?

There is nothing from what I have seen that Gorton has done that does not appear to be according to plan or straying off the playbook. I do not think that he views that signing big ticket UFAs is the right time at the right place right now.

 

[True Blue]

Panarin can score in OT, so I beg to differ.

Ok. Add him to this team and do you see a material difference?

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Again, I think Panarin is pretty obviously the right thing to do if we win the lotto, and pretty obviously the wrong thing to do if we don't.

But that's because I think we are a bubble team with this roster and Panarin, the Atlantic is the only good division in the league.

 

[duhmetreE]

The Hawks lost to the Red Wings in the WCF in 2008-09. They had their team set up & ready to go. They brought in Hossa to help put them over the top. They had identified all of their core pieces.

The Rangers have so much work to do. They need to find their #1 center and #1 D in the draft. All of their key young players are babies. All of them are 19 & 20 year old kids.

The Rangers are tied for the fewest ROW wins in the NHL with Detroit at 21. They are 6-3 in the shootout and 1-8 in OT. Their 11 shootout/OT losses and their 6 shootout wins skew how bad the Rangers really are.

This is overblown somewhat IMO. This was a transition/development/evaluation year. We're devoid of offensive talent ( but somehow good at shootouts ) and typically a disaster on defense... With a year of progression, advancement and roster moves, these ROW numbers could drastically change. ( Theoretically, games we're down by 1 can go to OT, games that we're up by 1 can be held onto; games that are close could be won in regulation, OT games can turn into OTW. )

On a separate note.. Hopefully we get rid of Ruff. He's been in charge of the defense for 2 loooooong years... Beg Beukeboom to come back and look into a top4 RHD. I'm on the Skjei for Trouba train, especially since we should have Hajek, Lindgren and Rykov ready to go.

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin is not on Gortons radar?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Ok. Add him to this team and do you see a material difference?

Then why sign him at all?

 

[haohmaru]

Ok. Add him to this team and do you see a material difference?

It depends on what the team's stated goals are/were. Given what the Rangers said they were going to do, no, there's no reason for Panarin to be on this team, this year. None. Would they have more points than they do now? Yes, I absolutely believe that. Not enough to make a difference other than draft order, though.

If they had Panarin at the start of the season, kept Hayes and Zuccarello, and added at the deadline then I think they squeeze into the playoffs. Obviously, not the right move, but for a team like Carolina or Florida that would've been a success.

Do I see this team being even more competitive next year? Yes. Would Panarin make them better? Yes. Do I think the cost/term are worth it? No.

But, let's not pretend that he wouldn't help this team improve. He would.