pld459666
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I think for a 60 point winger, that's a fair return.
Without conditions, I think a 2nd and 3rd is underwhelming
But that's my onion
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXI
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I think for a 60 point winger, that's a fair return.
Without conditions, I think a 2nd and 3rd is underwhelming
But that's my onion
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
See, I find this post interesting. From 2004-2012, Glen Sather didn't trade a single 1st round pick for a veteran. He traded I think one 2nd round pick in a rental deal (Antropov). I'm not including trading two 2nd rounders for Tim Erixon, because that's acquiring a young player who is supposed to be high potential. Meanwhile, he did go after high priced UFAs. So on one hand, he wasn't doing much that went against the conventional view of a rebuilding concept... and on the other, he did a lot that went against it. It wasn't until the "rebuild" was complete in 2011-12 that he seriously started looking at trading youth to improve the team.
It'll be interesting to see which Gorton does first, but signing high-priced UFAs don't involve sacrificing assets and if they're lengthy contracts, they're not necessarily win-now moves either. I don't really consider them antithetical to rebuilding.
Because you need more than one elite player, and we’ll have a very hard time fitting many other under the cap for the remainder of his very long contract. Signing Panarin is more likely to prevent us from winning a cup.
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Karlsson is already showing signs of breaking down. The pts are still there but the nagging injuries have begun. I want to keep giving DeAngelo those mins. Karlsson blocks him. I no longer think Karlsson makes sense for us
This is true, but the position of the teams are completely different.
Rangers at the time of their UFA signings were pretty much a perennial playoff team with a future HOF goalie in his prime. The success of the team directly after the lockout after the dark ages made it very, very hard for them to say "hey, that season was cute and all, but this team really isn't that good and is better off shooting for a high pick."
Yes our farm is deeper now compared to 2005-06 or even 06-07, but there is no Young Hank here. Throwing big money at UFA's before really having a feel for what you have would be a massive mistake. Getting the right player at the wrong time is a thing.
Also worth noting that none of the big UFA signings (Drury, Gomez, Redden, Gaborik, Richards) that this team has made since 2005 finished out their contracts here. They were either bought out or traded (ironically, the two trades they made ended up being pretty instrumental in their contending run, but you can't rely on that.)
Amazing Kreiderman
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Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider potentially Kravtsov and Miller. Whoever we pick this draft. A lot of depth in Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Buch etc.
Signing Panarin will not have any implications on our cap going forward.
Lundqvist, Staal, Shattenkirk (hoping he's moved this draft), Smith all come off the books when the kids are up for new contracts
Kreider's 'raise' is nearly taken care of by the $2M difference in the Girardi-buyout.
The cap should be $90-100M in a few years.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Yeah, they definitely made some bad bets. Though I don't think the Gaborik OR the Richards ones were particularly bad. The Richards one, had it come after 2013, wouldn't have been for so long but would have carried a higher cap hit. I don't know that it would have been bought out. It's not clear that it would have been without the availability of a compliance buyout.
I don't really expect them to be active on the UFA market until they're around the level they were in 2010-11, but if they want to make a splash with Panarin or Karlsson this year, I can't say I wouldn't get it. The big problem with the Gomez, Drury, and Redden signings was that none of them were top-end players, and in Redden's case, he was clearly already declining in Ottawa. With Gomez and Drury, these guys were legitimate 1st line types (don't forget that Drury had scored 37 goals the year before), but they weren't top-end players. Gaborik was a top-end player. Richards was a top-end player at the time we signed him, but saw an immediate decline because he was already 31... same as Drury.
Panarin is a top-end player. Karlsson is a top-end player, though I definitely agree with the injury concerns. Neither are 30 yet. That's the only tier of UFA I'm interested in until we get to the 2010-11 level of competitiveness.
apoptygma
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Yes please. Stay away from the dreaded upper echelon of middle quality UFA players. There is where most of the disasters lies. The Ladd, Backes, Smith etc contracts almost always turn out bad. I'd rather overpay a Panarin with a million or two each year then a long contract to a player of the mentioned calibre. On the other hand I hope they go garbage hunting for a plyer or two in the mold of Grabner, Poilout or Claesson. Even if they suck so much they are demoted to the AHL the buried cap shouldnt make any problems for us.
I still think Richards was the right guy at the right time even if it ended up terribly, but the timing was there.
That team had a good farm, had already produced several NHL regulars, had a prime Hank, etc.
This current edition is not at that stage, they're really not all that close yet either.
Signing Karlsson/Panarin would be akin to Minnesota signing Suter/Parise. We saw how thats worked out for them.
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IF I were Gorton... This Free Agency...
Find a taker for Shattenkirk
Buyout Smith or keep him as an extra
Sign Panarin 5-6 years
Sign Stralman 2 years
Panarin Zibanejad Buch/Chytil
Kreider Andersson Kravtsov
Vesey Howden Buch/Chytil
Names Strome Fast/Smith
Skjei Stralman
Hajek ADA
Staal/Lindgren/Rykov/Pionk/Smith
With Miller and Lundkvist in the wings. Our top pick this year and all the rest of our picks.
I don't see why we couldn't be active this FA.
Find a taker for Shattenkirk
Buyout Smith or keep him as an extra
Sign Panarin 5-6 years
Sign Stralman 2 years
Panarin Zibanejad Buch/Chytil
Kreider Andersson Kravtsov
Vesey Howden Buch/Chytil
Names Strome Fast/Smith
Skjei Stralman
Hajek ADA
Staal/Lindgren/Rykov/Pionk/Smith
With Miller and Lundkvist in the wings. Our top pick this year and all the rest of our picks.
I don't see why we couldn't be active this FA.
How long will he remain Elite? Will he be elite when we're competing? Is he going to demand a 7 year contract with a NMC?
Between him and EK, I'd rather have Panarin since he has fewer miles on the odometer, and has been relatively injury free throughout his career. But I wouldn't even entertain the idea of spending big money this summer. It's been 1 year since we started our rebuild.
Stay the course.
Not sure why you keep suggesting Stralman. He's had a very rocky season.
Look at all those options you have on our third pair. There's no need for him. He's going to be 33 at the start of next season. Just not something I can get around one bit.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I definitely don't want both, but the same problem exists with Minnesota as did with the Richards contract. They go for so long that they're fundamentally a problem. Also, you use UFAs to supplement your top-end talent... they can't be your only top-end players. Minnesota hasn't developed any.
I'm just not sure if it matters if you wait to get the top-end talent or you bring in the players before.
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If Rykov or Lindgren can play the right side, then I agree.
All the games I've seen Stralman he's been the same player, nothing extraordinary but solid and stabilizing
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I see him producing into his 30's.. 33-34 might be the beginning of the 'decline'. How fast and big of a decline that is, who knows.
Fitzy
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The nice thing about Panarin is that he's young and will probably have a pretty good longevity based on his playing style.
I could see him only really starting to decline at 32-33. In any event, his prime syncs up pretty well with when we expect to be back in the playoff picture. On the scale of Chris Drury versus Martin St. Louis, I see him aging more like St. Louis
Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin is a very good first line.
I could see him only really starting to decline at 32-33. In any event, his prime syncs up pretty well with when we expect to be back in the playoff picture. On the scale of Chris Drury versus Martin St. Louis, I see him aging more like St. Louis
Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin is a very good first line.
Yes but their situation was not unlike ours is at all.
They had 3 consecutive top 10 picks, traded away some established vets for younger pieces (Burns, Clutterbuck, both trades landed a former top 10 selection amongst other pieces for Burns) and decided to abandon ship and sign those 2 guys.
Even if we're taking the length of contract into account, had they halved the term on their contracts they'd still be where they are now, a team whose highlight was losing to Chicago in 6 in the WCSF. Not once have they been a legitimate contender, they've been a gatekeeper.
Excellent players are always available via trade and I get the assets vs money thing but thats why you accumulate so many assets, they aren't all going to play here and I'd rather use the assets at the right time than spend the money at the wrong time.
E-Train
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He's going to get more than Stone did.
7/10.5 or 11 would be my guess and that will be the end of it.
7/10.5 or 11 would be my guess and that will be the end of it.
pld459666
Registered User
I think if the Rangers are fortunate enough to be in the top ten with their own pick and are able to acquire another top ten pick via trade, I have a feeling that they quickly shift direction and look to sign a Panarin.
In the last three drafts, including 2019, the Rangers will have acquired the following 1st rounders
Tony D
Howden
Anderson
Chytil
Kravstov
Miller
Lundqvist
Rangers 1st
Winnipeg 1st
Potentially
Dal 1st
TB 1st
Not to mention
Hajek
Lemieux
Lindgren
Added to that are the 2nd rounders we will have. I'd that that is a pretty quick restocking of the franchise.
It wouldn't surprise me if we shifted focus to adding a free elite level asset with limited NHL miles a la Panarin
In the last three drafts, including 2019, the Rangers will have acquired the following 1st rounders
Tony D
Howden
Anderson
Chytil
Kravstov
Miller
Lundqvist
Rangers 1st
Winnipeg 1st
Potentially
Dal 1st
TB 1st
Not to mention
Hajek
Lemieux
Lindgren
Added to that are the 2nd rounders we will have. I'd that that is a pretty quick restocking of the franchise.
It wouldn't surprise me if we shifted focus to adding a free elite level asset with limited NHL miles a la Panarin
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Minnesota never did what we're doing. They had 1 year of 2 1st rounders. Otherwise, it's been 1 every year. The Rangers are about to have at least 7 in 3 drafts. It's very likely to be at least 9 in 4 drafts. Plus the acquisition of Howden.
But the other thing... their biggest problem is actually no different than Edmonton, Buffalo and Florida. They haven't drafted a single top-6 forward outside of the first round. They only marginal top-4 D they've drafted outside of the first round during the era we're discussing is Scandella. If that happens to the Rangers, we'll either top out where Minnesota is with supplemental pieces from outside the org, or we will be involved in a multi-cycle rebuild like those other three teams. Either way, not good times... but it won't be dependent on bringing on UFAs or not.
Thats not correct
****Sens receive a 1st RD pick from the Sharks (no later than 2022) if Karlsson is on an Eastern Conference roster (reserve list) during the 2018-19 season.
It’d have to be, because we probably won’t be able to afford a decent 2nd or 3rd line.
They can't afford another buyout. Nor can they afford 50-65 million for Panarin. And he is signing far more than for 5-6 years anyway. What purpose would he suit?
Finding a taker for Shattenkirk is easier types than said.
What they need to do is find room for Hajek & Lingreen. How is signing Stralman going to solve it?
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