Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXX

[HatTrick Swayze]

Believe what you want, but @Edge indicated that there was an offer out there from LA that many people (including myself) view as better value than the deal Drury ended up making.

With the idea being that he sacrificed value because he was specifically lusting after Blais.

Agree or disagree with this as you see fit, but "Drury sacrificed raw value in the Buch trade" is not a completely far-fetched take that should be met with snark and dismissal, IMO.

 

[jay from jersey]

Believe what you want, but @Edge indicated that there was an offer out there from LA that many people (including myself) view as better value than the deal Drury ended up making.

With the idea being that he sacrificed value because he was specifically lusting after Blais.

Agree or disagree with this as you see fit, but "Drury sacrificed raw value in the Buch trade" is not a completely far-fetched take that should be met with snark and dismissal, IMO.

there’s no way in hell they were offering Kupari and 8OA.

Edge Did mention kings were in the mix with Kupari+1st, who knows what kind of conditions were on the pick??
They may have also pulled their offer after signing Danault, more likely after trading for Arvidsson.

we also have no clue how our scouts and GM view Kupari or his ceiling. They might feel he’s a smaller worse version of Chytil.
If either of those things was the case, I could see why they viewed Blais higher. He’s cheap, can produce offensively, and provided the style of play we sorely lacked. He was also the only piece of the 3 that couldn’t have started making an impact immediately.
That point can’t be underestimated, if the rangers were going to miss the playoffs again this season, it would have been a massive failure with the talent we have.
Maybe Drury countered with Villardi + 1st??? Maybe the deal fell thru when they were able to acquire arvidsson cheaper???
Too many things we don’t know.

Buch had also been shopped around for at least 2 seasons prior as well. I know they tried like hell to move up for Zergas.
They also had a done deal with the oilers until CBJ went off the board and chose PLD.
In a different universe, Both Buch and Kreider are gone and NYR either has Newhook and Keller or maybe Robertson + Zergas?? And a late 1st???

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Very few players are actually "getting sick" though. Mild symptoms to no symptoms at all. At this point omicron covid is basically like splash back from dropping a loaf and the misting from flushing the toilet. Everyone will experience it at some point but it's not going to do any harm.

I agree, but lthe only real immunity comes from getting it

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Do we honestly expect men in their 20’s to live like they’re in a bubble indefinitely? Meanwhile, most, if not all, theirs friends throughout the league have had mild if any symptoms? I don’t want to go down the Covid rabbit hole, but it seems pretty unrealistic to me. They could shut the league down for another year and we’ll be hearing about the growing decepticon variant.

At this point, it might make more sense to tell players they must report any symptoms immediately at which point you get tested. If you test positive, then you stay away from the club until you get two negative tests. Give players all info possible to avoid unsafe situations but in the end the onus falls on them.

I think that’s a safe and realistic way possible to go forward. Of course, if there’s a stronger strain that comes out or it dissipates entirely then you update as you go. The situation is fluid.

I totally agree, I was never really panicked, I wassnitpicking they built up immunity bu it's not what he meant... it didn't even affect most NHLers

 

[jay from jersey]

I agree, but lthe only real immunity comes from getting it

That seems to be the case. Nothing can substitute or work better then your own body fighting off the virus and creating its own antibodies.
Especially with Omicron being more contagious but less lethal. I’d wager tons of people were walking around not knowing they have/had it already.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they start telling people to get a 4th and ultimately 5th dose. Crazy

 

[Barnaby]

Not if that wasn't the goal. Strome might end up being that because, unfortunately, he's a critical component to the team's success. Buchnevich, however, would be an asset at the deadline to a team trying to get over the hump. It's not ideal, like Strome, because if the team is as successful as it has been it sends a pretty bad message to the room.

They never would have dealt Buch at the deadline if they were in playoff contention. It just doesn’t happen.

 

[LORDE]

There is none. I doubt management turned down better offers for him. And honestly before Blais got hurt the deal wasn’t looking too bad (to ME, it’s subjective after all), but I mean we all have our favorites ( that whole subjective thing again) and put different valuations. Liked Buch, still do, but my opinion of him isn’t NEARLY as high as some other folks’. So I’m not as obsessed as them over it.

It was reported by @Edge that the NYR & EDM were really close to a deal for Buch & their 1st RD pick (#12? can't remember)

There were those of us who wanted to sweeten to get that pick, and selecting our young center... That we're still looking for.

Same issue with Kreider... the rumored deal w/colorado was him for their pick... we could've sweetened and gotten it and Newhook.

 

[LORDE]

I imagine we’ll still be talking about Buch in 2034. It’s only like 12 years away.

Hell, 12 years ago we had guys like Redden, Avery and the ever promising Enver Lisin. Guys we still talk about.

Funny. Depressing... but funny

 

[jay from jersey]

It was reported by @Edge that the NYR & EDM were really close to a deal for Buch & their 1st RD pick (#12? can't remember)

There were those of us who wanted to sweeten to get that pick, and selecting our young center... That we're still looking for.

Same issue with Kreider... the rumored deal w/colorado was him for their pick... we could've sweetened and gotten it and Newhook.

man I don’t know if that Robertson+1st for Kreids deal ever went deep into talks, but I remember the Newhook deal clear as day.
The pick was even delayed a bit on the floor at the draft. That must have been a hair away from being faxed to the league.
It was Kreider to Col and Rangers receive 16OA
Once Avs saw Newhook still there, they nixed the deal in the 11th hour and selected him with the pick.
Buch was a main piece going to EDM for their 8th OA pick a few years ago ( when the took Broberg)
So NYR could jump ANA and pick Zergas. They were trying hard.

McDonaugh to EDM was also close as well. No clue what the return was though

 

[bhamill]

Agree or disagree with this as you see fit, but "Drury sacrificed raw value in the Buch trade" is not a completely far-fetched take that should be met with snark and dismissal, IMO.

Should it be met with snark and dismissal? No. Should people be expected to just accept “we could have done a LOT better” as gospel truth? Also no.
In the end it’s just a stated opinion with nothing but subjective judgement to to back it up.

 

[bhamill]

man I don’t know if that Robertson+1st for Kreids deal ever went deep into talks, but I remember the Newhook deal clear as day.
The pick was even delayed a bit on the floor at the draft. That must have been a hair away from being faxed to the league.
It was Kreider to Col and Rangers receive 16OA
Once Avs saw Newhook still there, they nixed the deal in the 11th hour and selected him with the pick.

And then Buch probably would not have been traded and everyone’s happy. Except Krieder is scoring all these goals in CO… and I’m sure there’s people who would ream management over it. Hahah. Sometimes it’s just about making the least terrible choice.

Oh. Can we please not send this thread down the COVID opinion toilet again? Hahaha.

 

[LORDE]

man I don’t know if that Robertson+1st for Kreids deal ever went deep into talks, but I remember the Newhook deal clear as day.
The pick was even delayed a bit on the floor at the draft. That must have been a hair away from being faxed to the league.
It was Kreider to Col and Rangers receive 16OA
Once Avs saw Newhook still there, they nixed the deal in the 11th hour and selected him with the pick.

The other trade I was referencing was to EDM for Buch.... again... I felt we should've forced the issue thereby getting the pick we wanted and dealt Buch KNOWING we would eventually and not for Blais and a 2nd

Everyone says hindsight... blah blah blah.

But you can say "I know we are dealing him soon... better to get what we want NOW even if we have to give a bit more than to wait until Blais + a 2nd is what we settle for

 

[jay from jersey]

The other trade I was referencing was to EDM for Buch.... again... I felt we should've forced the issue thereby getting the pick we wanted and dealt Buch KNOWING we would eventually and not for Blais and a 2nd

Everyone says hindsight... blah blah blah.

But you can say "I know we are dealing him soon... better to get what we want NOW even if we have to give a bit more than to wait until Blais + a 2nd is what we settle for

Buch has been rumored to EDM for a few years....
are you talking about EDM acquiring him this past offseason? Or prior?
I don’t think Drury settled. I think he specifically target Blais and maybe 1-2 other guys in case their teams were interested in Buch.
Like I said before, the Blues weren’t offering Blais around for peanuts to everyone. He’s a unique player with a unique skill set.
My guess is our scouts and FO guys not only wanted Blais for the physical stuff, but because he was cheap, and has hands as well.
I think many thought he would elevate his offense here much like Bennett did when dealt to the panthers.
Blais played well in his short time. He was looking like he was going to get moved up with Bread/Strome. I don’t see if healthy, why 40-45 pts would be out of the question for him....
If you figure Buch gets around 65 pts over the full season at 6 mill- Blais at 40-45pt? Plus the hitting/physical play we lacked, for 3.5 million less, + 2nd rd pick in 23 which is another strong draft.
That was probably the logic behind it.

 

[LORDE]

Buch has been rumored to EDM for a few years....
are you talking about EDM acquiring him this past offseason? Or prior?
I don’t think Drury settled. I think he specifically target Blais and maybe 1-2 other guys in case their teams were interested in Buch.
Like I said before, the Blues weren’t offering Blais around for peanuts to everyone. He’s a unique player with a unique skill set.
My guess is our scouts and FO guys not only wanted Blais for the physical stuff, but because he was cheap, and has hands as well.
I think many thought he would elevate his offense here much like Bennett did when dealt to the panthers.

Sorry... yes prior... same draft as Newhook to COL

 

[JohnC]

If Edge is to be believed (and people have basically always trusted his sources unconditionally, so I don’t know why they’d selectively start questioning them now), an offer of Kupari + 2022 1st from LA is objectively light years better than an offer of Blais + 2022 2nd and Drury is a bozo for choosing the latter over the former. And I liked what Blais was showing before the injury.

 

[jay from jersey]

Sorry... yes prior... same draft as Newhook to COL

yea NYR was all over the place trying to wheel and deal.
We won the Kakko pick, tried like hell to get the EDM pick at 8 to get Zergas before the ducks at 9 and offered Kreider to col for the 16OA( Newhook) straight up.
I don’t know how close we were with EDM. I know they were serious talks, but I don’t know how close a potential trade was.
The kreider for 16 ( newhook) was at the goal line though.
The Avs had already Picked Byram at 4, and really had a need for a big fast talented wing.
I think in the end kreiders contract status might have given them pause??? Or they were just so super high on Newhook they pulled out at the last minute.
Maybe a combo of both.

 

[LORDE]

yea NYR was all over the place trying to wheel and deal.
We won the Kakko pick, tried like hell to get the EDM pick at 8 to get Zergas before the ducks at 9 and offered Kreider to col for the 16OA( Newhook) straight up.
I don’t know how close we were with EDM. I know they were serious talks, but I don’t know how close a potential trade was.
The kreider for 16 ( newhook) was at the goal line though.
The Avs had already Picked Byram at 4, and really had a need for a big fast talented wing.
I think in the end kreiders contract status might have given them pause??? Or they were just so super high on Newhook they pulled out at the last minute.
Maybe a combo of both.

Man I would've sweetened for either. We need(ed) a YOUNG stud center badly

 

[jay from jersey]

If Edge is to be believed (and people have basically always trusted his sources unconditionally, so I don’t know why they’d selectively start questioning them now), an offer of Kupari + 2022 1st from LA is objectively light years better than an offer of Blais + 2022 2nd and Drury is a bozo for choosing the latter over the former. And I liked what Blais was showing before the injury.

edge mentioned it in a quick post, but he didn’t say it was def the 22.1st which was 8OA.
Odds are the pick might have had top 10 condition or something on it.
Also, we don’t know if LA might have rescinded the offer after getting both Danualt and Arvidsson or If Drury just wanted Blais and a 2nd that much more and left it on the table.
There wasn’t a lot of details.
I can’t imagine he would leave Kupari + 8OA either compared to the Blais deal.
And I’m not a huge Kupari fan, but that’s certainly more valuable the Blais+ 23 2nd.
The 8 OA pick is worth a lot. Any top 10 pick is usually very pricey to acquire.
Thats why I’m guessing there’s some circumstance we didn’t hear of.
I’m guessing the kings pulled out, but I have no idea for sure

 

[bhamill]

If Edge is to be believed (and people have basically always trusted his sources unconditionally, so I don’t know why they’d selectively start questioning them now), an offer of Kupari + 2022 1st from LA is objectively light years better than an offer of Blais + 2022 2nd and Drury is a bozo for choosing the latter over the former. And I liked what Blais was showing before the injury.

I trust Edge. I think that’s reasonable. That doesn’t mean that that was ALL there was to the offer. And Edge never said why it didn’t happen as far as I know. Maybe that offer was made and then rescinded or altered. Maybe any number of other things. But yeah, if THAT deal was really available and not pulled I agree they should have taken it. Maybe they saw that deal and got greedy hoping for more and never got anything close again. It’s all conjecture, which is cool, but people act like they know that we took the worst possible deal. Like teams were lining up with rich offers which we turned our noses up at. Haha. Can I believe they overplayed their hand or missed out on a deal that would have been better? Sure. Do I think they shit on a bunch of great offers to go with Blais and a 2nd. Nope.

 

[Edge]

It was reported by @Edge that the NYR & EDM were really close to a deal for Buch & their 1st RD pick (#12? can't remember)

There were those of us who wanted to sweeten to get that pick, and selecting our young center... That we're still looking for.

Same issue with Kreider... the rumored deal w/colorado was him for their pick... we could've sweetened and gotten it and Newhook.

9th pick.

If you go back and look at the draft, there’s a little bit of a delay with Edmonton. Discussions ran into the final minute.

 

[Edge]

Believe what you want, but @Edge indicated that there was an offer out there from LA that many people (including myself) view as better value than the deal Drury ended up making.

With the idea being that he sacrificed value because he was specifically lusting after Blais.

Agree or disagree with this as you see fit, but "Drury sacrificed raw value in the Buch trade" is not a completely far-fetched take that should be met with snark and dismissal, IMO.

For better or worse, the Rangers focused on a specific guy they wanted and wanted to roll the dice based on where type of player they felt he could be for them.

Time will tell if they are right. But all the chatter around Blais was that he was a specific target. And I like Blais, just not at that cost.

 

[effen]

Pls stop @'ing edge so he doesn't get reminded every near trade he shares will not just get repeated ad infinitum and connected directly to him repeatedly but also get pinged as a reminder we are all breathless high school girls.

 

[jay from jersey]

Man I would've sweetened for either. We need(ed) a YOUNG stud center badly

Yea, coming out of that draft with Kakko+ Newhook/Zergas would have been epic considering how they looked so far.
We’d also have some more cap space...
Tbh, if we got the 1 instead of the 2 pick and Drafted Hughes, it still likely puts us in a better spot going forward.
Obviously you can’t predict winning the flowing year and getting LaF, but having Zibby-Hughes-Chytil/Barron-Rooney down the middle for the next 6 years at least changes the whole team dynamic.
The league would have shit a canary and the main boards on HF would probably still be crashed if we won back to back 1OA picks though....
but say we got Hughes and LaF. Kreider would have still likely resigned a similar deal, and they probably try to keep Buch in the fold for a while longer if possible.
They’d also be in the drivers seat as far as the trade market goes. Getting a winger is so much easier.
Whose to say though, making or not making a certain trade or drafting a certain player changes the facets of all the next move the team makes and drafts.
It’s way to tough to predict...

 

[bobbop]

Wyshinski (who I don’t love) has something interesting tonight…he’s speculating Vegas might move William Karlsson as a way to make salary cap,room for Jack Eichel. 5 years left at $5.9MM. Really good two way player, big ticket.

Money would be very tight but I would think Drury would be in on this if it has any legs.

 

[Savant]

For better or worse, the Rangers focused on a specific guy they wanted and wanted to roll the dice based on where type of player they felt he could be for them.

Time will tell if they are right. But all the chatter around Blais was that he was a specific target. And I like Blais, just not at that cost.

Here is what I don’t get though. Wouldn’t there have been some logic to taking the LA deal, keeping Kupari, and then spinning a pick to STL for Blais? And getting kind of the best of both worlds there? I don’t think STL would have turned down (worst case scenario) the LA pick for Blais. I get targeting a specific player but doesn’t mean to take a bath on value. There are other ways.