Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXX

[Crease]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

 

[Blueblood9]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

Seguin

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

BUT THEY HAD GREAT MANAGEMENT!!!!

 

[FIRE DRURY]

So do you do Kreider, Pionk and Lias for McAvoy?

Lias makes this a deal breaker for me.

Kreider@50% + Pionk or Shatty@50% and I’m in.

I would imagine they’d want ADA though.

 

[RGY]

A cup more recently than the NYR by a mile and they’re set up to do so AGAIN and we are a bottom 5 team.

Do you have a point?

Are you comparing a cup from 15 years ago pre-lockout and salary cap? Do you have a point?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

Both Kessel and Seguin were top 5 picks. The Bruins were BAD.

Detroit also had a top 5 defenseman of all time playing for them and two hall of famers drafted in round 7. If you wanna take that approach I think we're gonna be here for awhile.

 

[Profet]

That's flawed logic as well because the losers of the league pick at the top for a decade.... and still continue to lose.

"What is being said is that teams that are currently winning, have been bad enough to have top picks now playing for them." There is no flaw in that logic. It is fact. If you disagree, your perception of reality is distorted to the point that its not worth discussing.

To your other point... which had nothing to do with what I stated,

Again... no one is saying tanking is foolproof. Tanking doesn't make you an automatic cup winner. But the vast majority of teams who win... have been bad recently enough to have top picks playing for them.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[NYR Viper]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

I think Seguin was also on that roster

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Lol, so simple. Can't believe no NHL owner has cracked this code. Why even ice a team if you don't have a 1st or 2nd overall pick on the roster? So can a team with great management and no top picks win a Cup?

Actually there have been a bunch of teams that have "cracked the code." They're all the recent cup winners.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

Seguin.

Also the wings won 11 years ago.

 

[RGY]

I think Seguin was also on that roster

But Seguin draft pick was not a result of tanking. Believe that was the pick in the Kessel trade

 

[Off Sides]

It does not even have to be two top 2 picks, just players who in hindsight should have been taken earlier in their draft classes to the point they'd be in consideration among the best of their peers from those drafts.

Whether or not that Rangers can do that remains to be seen, yet if there was a redraft of Stepan, Dubinsky, Callahan, Ansimov, Kreider, JT Miller they'd all go earlier than they did. If Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller drafts were redone right now they too likely go higher than they did. Whether that holds true the further into the future we get, who knows. Whether the Rangers can do more of that, again who knows, yet without the picks they certainly can not.

 

[Tawnos]

Not to be a nit, but I think the Red Wings won their recent Cup without a top-five pick on the roster. Bruins won with the minimum (Wheeler, 5OA) but he wasn't really a huge contributor in their run.

Wheeler wasn't on that team. Seguin was and was not a major contributor. And the pick the Bruins used to take Seguin was acquired for Kessel, who was a top-5 pick.

Also, you mean a top-5 Bruins pick. They had Horton, who was a top-5 pick.

 

[NYR Viper]

These teams looking hard at Stone and Duchene would be falling ALL over themselves to get Kreider. The price that Ottawa is asking for Stone or Duchene is 2-3 prime assets for a RENTAL. The Rangers should be happy with a very similar deal for Kreider and there would be a bidding war for a cost controlled 1st line winger with size.

Boston, Nashville, Toronto. These teams know their window is now. They all have pieces that would intrigue the Rangers.

 

[Larrybiv]

It's kinda hard to argue that everything goes against what I'm saying, when you're arguing we shouldn't tank, yet 90% of teams to win a cup in the last decade have done so with a top 2 pick playing a primary role.

I never said it's a sure thing. In fact, quite the opposite. As with anything, there's a lot of risk involved. You still need to do other things well. Such as wise FA signings, good development of players, good drafting in later rounds, etc.

But the fact remains, the opposite strategy of staying mired in mediocrity and attempting to supplement decent players with FA's or lower draft picks is statistically less likely to lead to a cup.

To be dead honest, I don't care if we blow for 5 years. I don't care if we finish dead last for 5 years. If by year 10 we get a cup, I'm satisfied. I just want one that I can remember.

Oh no buddy, I am NOT down with that! No how, no way.
I dealt with last years crap.
This year has been fun in stage 2/ year 2.
Good draft and some how be competitive, similar to this year and maybe even end up drafting 1-10 again. I am even ok with that.

But, OTH.......it could easily go in the other direction and move forward quite a bit faster. If Gorton deems we have enough talent in the system.......maybe Hayes and Zuccha are deemed "returnable", sign Panarin and full speed ahead.
We will then have a more than competitive team, the kids will learn from the pros and get "used to winning". My plan.

Two ways to go here......but I REFUSE to be down with a 5 year plan, let alone another 5......just to "guarantee what?" You mean like we were guaranteed a cup with previous teams?

Not me, don't imagine I have that much time, nor patience.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Stone is a monster, but I’d rather have Kreider for a playoff run then duchene.

 

[LORDE]

Are you comparing a cup from 15 years ago pre-lockout and salary cap? Do you have a point?

I’m saying that since they’ve been a team theyve done a hell of a lot more than we have and if you wouldn’t trade their management, scouting and teams right now you’re crazy.

This whole discussion about tanking or not is ridiculous. No one says it WILL work.

But we all know what wont... putting bandaids on bullet wounds and having Hayes and Zucc Et all here declining while we rearrange the chairs on the Titanic

But whatever’s. “What has Tampa won?”

Omg so rich

 

[nyr2k2]

Any chance we can get a TDL thread up early? Seems like things are moving. This thread has a lot of "do we need a top five pick" and "is tanking effective" and all that and I'd really like to just be able to focus on trade chatter involving us. If not, I get it. Just a thought!

 

[RGY]

I’m saying that since they’ve been a team theyve done a hell of a lot more than we have and if you wouldn’t trade their management, scouting and teams right now you’re crazy.

This whole discussion about tanking or not is ridiculous. No one says it WILL work.

But we all know what wont... putting bandaids on bullet wounds and having Hayes and Zucc Et all here declining while we rearrange the chairs on the Titanic

But whatever’s. “What has Tampa won?”

Omg so rich

What have they won with Stamkos?

That was the point. Sorry i didnt go back 15 years to when they won in a completely different era.

Thats rich..

 

[Crease]

Wheeler wasn't on that team. Seguin was and was not a major contributor. And the pick the Bruins used to take Seguin was acquired for Kessel, who was a top-5 pick.

Also, you mean a top-5 Bruins pick. They had Horton, who was a top-5 pick.

I borked the Bruins thing.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kreider Zibanejad Kucherov
Chytil? Point Kravstov

no top 3 talent but if we had the deep scouting TB had, we'd have a top offense.

Wth is this? Yeah if my aunt had wheels she’d be my uncle :

 

[apoptygma]

Give me Fabbro and a 1. for Kreider please. Surely we can throw in some minor stuff if thats what it takes.

With Miller, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, DeAngelo, Lundkvist, Reunanen, Ragnarsson, Sjalin, Keane and Fabbro we should be able to get the core of a defence from that.
Our goalie prospects seems good. Then we can stockpile forwards from the 19 & 20 draft with hopefully everything comming into its own from the 20-21 season onwards.

 

[TheTakedown]

If the return for Hayes is a late 1st and a "prospect" aka a shit throwaway prospect with "oooozzzinnng potential", I'm going to be f***ing pissed

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Wheeler wasn't on that team. Seguin was and was not a major contributor. And the pick the Bruins used to take Seguin was acquired for Kessel, who was a top-5 pick.

Also, you mean a top-5 Bruins pick. They had Horton, who was a top-5 pick.

was just looking for Kreider news, but to the point here the core of that Bruins team was built without top picks.

Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic = 2nd rd picks
Marchand = 3rd rd pick
Chara signed UFA
Boychuk acquired for Matt Hendricks
Seidenberg acquired for Byron Bitz
Thomas signed of the FA scrap heap
Recchi acquired for Lashoff and Karsums
Ference acquired with Kobasew for Brad Stuart and Wayne Primeau
Horton acquired with Campbell for Wideman and a 1st

 

[Off Sides]

Any chance we can get a TDL thread up early? Seems like things are moving. This thread has a lot of "do we need a top five pick" and "is tanking effective" and all that and I'd really like to just be able to focus on trade chatter involving us. If not, I get it. Just a thought!

Only if this thread title is changed to roman numerals. Seems like a fair trade to me.