Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXX

[True Blue]

Obviously we do not know his demands, but what if he is asking for 6-7 years at 7 per season?

What do you believe that the going rate for a legit top line power forward who is just stepping into the prime of his career is?
We could even get some guys on rosters that are older and trade FOR them in exchange of us taking their cap hit. None of those players have the ability of a Kreider, but they could help the younger players.

Guys like Callahan, Backes, etc to give cap teams relief to make a push next season. I don't think there will be a shortage of vets on our roster.

There is a big difference between players like that and Krieder. Kreider can lead both vocally in locker room and physically on the ice. And unlike a Backes, he is a career Ranger.

 

[Dijock94]

I think trading Kreider at the draft makes some sense. We need to continue rebuilding and starting his extension at age 29 is high risk.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The general flow was that "There are no teams out there who are substantially comprised of 27 year old and under"

Just pointing out the top team currently in the standings is actually substantially comprised of 28 year olds and under.

But it's not like Kreider is one of 5 forwards over the age of 27. He's the only one. He's literally the oldest forward on the team or maybe tied with Fast. This is a very young forward group and will probably be younger next year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving him another contract here. He's still going to be an extremely effective player for years to come.

 

[True Blue]

Personally I am against contracts longer than 4 years.

Then you will have a very hard time signing or resigning players.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

But that's just not realistic. You can't be the only team in the league giving out lesser term deals than other teams. Similar players sign similar deals because the market is set.

technically you can. Nobody is forcing you to sign those players, if those players want a very long contract then trade them and sign players who are ok about shorter contracts. For example Wild signed Suter and Parise to like 13 year contracts or something? What has it accomplished for them? Did they win a Cup? Did they go to Cup finals? Do they now have a great team?

 

[Rangers in 7]

technically you can. Nobody is forcing you to sign those players, if those players want a very long contract then trade them and sign players who are ok about shorter contracts. For example Wild signed Suter and Parise to like 13 year contracts or something? What has it accomplished for them? Did they win a Cup? Did they go to Cup finals? Do they now have a great team?

quick answers for you
no cup
no finals
no great team
hahah

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

But it's not like Kreider is one of 5 forwards over the age of 27. He's the only one. He's literally the oldest forward on the team or maybe tied with Fast. This is a very young forward group and will probably be younger next year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving him another contract here. He's still going to be an extremely effective player for years to come.

As long as the numbers make sense, I'm all for it.

 

[Hire Sather]

We cannot keep pushing everyone to their UFA year. Sign him or trade him. Make a commitment either way instead of dragging it till the player is months from UFA and at his lowest value.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

As long as the numbers make sense, I'm all for it.

For me, it’s the term more than the cap hit.

I wouldn’t go over 5 years.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

quick answers for you
no cup
no finals
no great team
hahah

and now they are stuck with 2 34 yearolds for 6 more seasons similar situation to Lundqvist, Marc Staal, etc.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As long as the numbers make sense, I'm all for it.

This is what it comes to for me. I’m as big a Kreider fan as there is here, and I am definitely pro resigning him. But, if he’s looking for the big payout, then it’s in the Rangers’ best interest to trade him.

 

[Ghost of jas]

For me, it’s the term more than the cap hit.

I wouldn’t go over 5 years.

I can go six.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

We cannot keep pushing everyone to their UFA year. Sign him or trade him. Make a commitment either way instead of dragging it till the player is months from UFA and at his lowest value.

It bothers me that Gorts does this... He had a quote prior to the deadline that essentially was saying he spent the week before the deadline deciding who they should trade and who they should keep.. I'm sure it was just non-sense GM talk, but if it is not then I'm seriously concerned about the long term plan

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Gotta say, I am a bit amazed at how many people are seemingly itching to get rid of Kreider. There are no teams out there who are substantially comprised of 27 year old and under. There are no such teams. Who replaces Krieder, both on the ice and in the locker room? If the goal is to go into a complete tank job, then why not trade ZBad as well? Then you can have Kravstov & Chytil play the top line next year and see the wonders it does for their development.

It's not really a matter of people here itching to get rid of Kreider. There are a couple of unknown elements that will ultimately dictate the direction Gorton goes with Kreider.

1). Salary
2). Contract Length
3). Contract Clauses

If Kreider's agent, Matt Keator thinks CK can get more than what Gorton is will to offer him, then CK will probably have to be moved.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I believe the former. Just becuase Gorton traded away Zucc and Hayes, does not mean that he will not extend Krieder. I believe (and who knows, I could be way off base) that Gorton has identified the players that he wants here for the long haul. If he was going to trade Kreider, wouldn't the return be greater this year rather than in a year in which he is heading into free-agency?

They did it last year with Miller and McDonagh too. The return could have been greater, but based on a lot of the returns this deadline, they don’t seem very great across the board. He reportedly was listening to offers and set a price on Kreider and if it wasn’t close now, that doesn’t mean that the price won’t go down or teams offers won’t go up in the offseason, probably a little of both.

Right now I’m about 55% trade him and 45% keep him, I really don’t feel good about giving him a long term contract, I don’t care how much of an athletic freak he is, players who play similar to him don’t last much past 30 if at all. I said it earlier today: if I’m the Rangers I talk to him or his agent after the season with a cap on term length (5 years or less) and absolutely no NTC/NMC’s, if he’s willing to sign that sort of contract, great, sign it, if he’s not I trade him in the summer

 

[haveandare]

Don't want to trade him. Also don't want to over commit as much as I'm a huge fan of his.

If we can keep the term down for a higher hit, I'd be all for that.

I do think we need vets, not just from the league but from this club, to help the kids come up right. I'd like Mika and Kreider to be the main two pieces of that. Having said that, if he insists on 7 years, NTC, all that stuff, they shouldn't do it as much as it sucks to say.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It's not really a matter of people here itching to get rid of Kreider. There are a couple of unknown elements that will ultimately dictate the direction Gorton goes with Kreider.

1). Salary
2). Contract Length
3). Contract Clauses

If Kreider's agent, Matt Keator thinks CK can get more than what Gorton is will to offer him, then CK will probably have to be moved.

If Gorton wants to keep him, he'll offer him a deal comparable to what other players similar to him get - 7 years / 6.5-7 million per. That's the kind of deal you're looking at. The market is the market. If Kreider wants something astronomical, then good luck playing elsewhere Chris. It's not really that difficult.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kane is getting paid in California ( 500k tax difference from NY ) and as a "UFA" ( wasn't technically a UFA but was headed to UFA in a month ). Kane has been on 3 teams, he doesn't have any 'loyalty' per se.

Kreider, ideally would accept a 8% cap hit raise. Should be around 6.5ish

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If Gorton wants to keep him, he'll offer him a deal comparable to what other players similar to him get - 7 years / 6.5-7 million per. That's the kind of deal you're looking at. The market is the market. If Kreider wants something astronomical, then good luck playing elsewhere Chris. It's not really that difficult.

Don’t sleep on the clauses. If CK wants 7X7 with a full NMC, would that impact your decision in Re-Signing him?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

12 of 13 of the top point producers on Tampa are 28 or younger, McD being the old/odd man out at age 29.

Kreider would be 29 when his extension starts.

The top point producing forward on Tampa who is 29 or older? Ryan Callahan, who is also their only forward who is of age 29 or older.

Great, now do all the recent cup winners instead of limiting this to one team, a team that hasn't even won a cup yet.

Players 29 or older at time of Cup:

2018 Capitals:
Ovechkin (32)
Backstrom (30)
Oshie(31)
Niskanen (31)
Beagle (32)
Orpik (37)

There I see half of their top 6, including their two best goal scorers and best assist man and a top 4 D.

2017 Penguins:
Kessel (29)
Crosby (29)
Hornquist (30)
Malkin (30)
Fleury (32)
Daley (33)
Hainsey(35)
Kunitz (37)
Cullen (40)

2/3 of their top 6, including their 2 best players; Kunitz scored their ECF Game 7 2OT goal, Cullen important player on this team, Fleury starting goalie first 2 rounds.

I'll skip the 2016 penguins because it's basically the same.

2015 Blackhawks:
Hossa (36)
Roszival (36)
Richards (34)
Sharp (33)
Oduya (32)
Vermette (32)
Keith (31)
Crawford (30)
Seabrook (29)

Half the top 6, best TWF in Hossa, 2c in Richards, Top 3 D, Starting goalie.


This is just the 3 most recent cup winners, it's overwhelmingly apparent that 29 isn't some cutoff for guys to be effective/important pieces of a successful team.

And maybe we should pump the brakes on Tampa until they win something. Historically great season or not, they haven't accomplished anything more than the Rangers did from 2012-17. They've made 2 ECF and 1 SCF, missed the playoffs in that window one time too. Not saying they're not amazing and not a huge favorite, but come on. We can't look to them to be the barometer while everything else always seems to be underlined with the "cup or doesn't matter" but then ignore the actual cup winners here.

 

[Leonardo87]

Don’t sleep on the clauses. If CK wants 7X7 with a full NMC, would that impact your decision in Re-Signing him?

I guess it depends on how many years. If it opens up to a limited NTC, in the final two years or so, then it’s not as big of an issue, imo.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Great, now do all the recent cup winners instead of limiting this to one team, a team that hasn't even won a cup yet.

Players 29 or older at time of Cup:

2018 Capitals:
Ovechkin (32)
Backstrom (30)
Oshie(31)
Niskanen (31)
Beagle (32)
Orpik (37)

There I see half of their top 6, including their two best goal scorers and best assist man and a top 4 D.

2017 Penguins:
Kessel (29)
Crosby (29)
Hornquist (30)
Malkin (30)
Fleury (32)
Daley (33)
Hainsey(35)
Kunitz (37)
Cullen (40)

2/3 of their top 6, including their 2 best players; Kunitz scored their ECF Game 7 2OT goal, Cullen important player on this team, Fleury starting goalie first 2 rounds.

I'll skip the 2016 penguins because it's basically the same.

2015 Blackhawks:
Hossa (36)
Roszival (36)
Richards (34)
Sharp (33)
Oduya (32)
Vermette (32)
Keith (31)
Crawford (30)
Seabrook (29)

Half the top 6, best TWF in Hossa, 2c in Richards, Top 3 D, Starting goalie.


This is just the 3 most recent cup winners, it's overwhelmingly apparent that 29 isn't some cutoff for guys to be effective/important pieces of a successful team.

And maybe we should pump the brakes on Tampa until they win something. Historically great season or not, they haven't accomplished anything more than the Rangers did from 2012-17. They've made 2 ECF and 1 SCF, missed the playoffs in that window one time too. Not saying they're not amazing and not a huge favorite, but come on. We can't look to them to be the barometer while everything else always seems to be underlined with the "cup or doesn't matter" but then ignore the actual cup winners here.

Yeah the age isn't really the issue more than the quality of player is.

Those teams had them in spades, we do not.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Don’t sleep on the clauses. If CK wants 7X7 with a full NMC, would that impact your decision in Re-Signing him?

Me personally? I have no problem with the money or NTC. I think he'll still be an effective player towards the end of the contract. He's in crazy good shape and we don't know what percentage of the cap 7 million a year would be in 7 years. But it's not my money and I'm not Gorton, so I have no say. Maybe they get creative and try to front load the deal. Again, this is not an old forward group. If they still had a bunch of guys over 30 with a lot of term left, that would be an entirely different conversation.

 

[Off Sides]

Age is an issue when talking about decline.

How we do not know this as Rangers fans after seeing it happen with almost every free agent they've signed, including their own who they extended ???

 

[Good Intentions]

and now they are stuck with 2 34 yearolds for 6 more seasons similar situation to Lundqvist, Marc Staal, etc.

Unless the “etc” is removing Lundqvist from your broken sentence, I have a new poster to block.