Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVIII

[mas0764]

Trouba is a good player and makes this team better every game he plays. But he also carries that cap hit and term, and that has an opportunity cost. Both things are true.

Both things are true but in a flat cap world and also a world where we have many defensive prospects who can probably be physical, high end second pair defenders who don't produce a ton of offense, which outcome is more likely?

Really the only thing that makes it not an absolute given that he's moved is the NMC. And even that as I just said, can probably be persuaded. Many teams do trade players with NMCs.

 

[Avery16]

Maybe. He could dig in his heels and refuse.

But if the team tells him he's getting bypassed on the depth chart and they want to move him to a better situation for him, obviously he has final say and can control where he goes, but I have a hard time thinking that if it's not like, a cap dump to Arizona, that he would object too strongly. The money is the same and he can play higher in the lineup for a different playoff team who needs him? I'd have to think he can be talked into that.

Family-focused Jacob Trouba sees long future with Rangers

 

[mas0764]

Kreider always has hot weeks that make us think he's reached a new gear. But he's 30 now. How likely is it that this isnt just one of his hot weeks and he will revert to his dormant slumber for the rest of the season? Kreider should get paid on commission.

I mean, one of them is gonna have to go at some point.

Right, the Rangers are locked in to this core for the next 3 years and will not want to add any other marginally expensive pieces. I have a bridge to sell you.

We need a fricking 2C and can't even afford to re-sign Strome this offseason (not that we'd want to since we need to upgrade his spot, but the point remains). And we are gonna have to pay the kids coming off ELCs - not just Kakko, but soon after Lafreniere, Chytil again, KAM, etc.

Use your heads people. When the team tells you "Trouba is going nowhere," they mean Trouba is going nowhere NOW.

In 2 seasons? Completely different ballgame. And consider: When Trouba was brought here we didn't know Fox was going to win a Norris within 2 seasons, or even that Fox would ever be a first pair defender. We didn't know Lindgren would be a top pair defender. We didn't know that we would soon acquire Schneider. We didn't know how quickly Jones and Robertson would develop, as in fact we had literally just drafted them within weeks.

The defensive situation has completely changed from when we paid Trouba his money.

 

[mas0764]

Family-focused Jacob Trouba sees long future with Rangers

Yeah but he's here this season already, and after this season (this summer) we will be at three years already from that article. I'm not saying he's getting moved after this season, I'm just saying he's not gonna see the end of that 8 year deal.

4 years or 5 years IS a long term in sports.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yeah but he's here this season already, and after this season (this summer) we will be at three years already from that article. I'm not saying he's getting moved after this season, I'm just saying he's not gonna see the end of that 8 year deal.

4 years or 5 years IS a long term in sports.

he's not getting bought out if thats what you're implying. He's going to likely be traded, but I would be amazed if he didnt get every penny of that deal.

 

[Avery16]

Yeah but he's here this season already, and after this season (this summer) we will be at three years already from that article. I'm not saying he's getting moved after this season, I'm just saying he's not gonna see the end of that 8 year deal.

4 years or 5 years IS a long term in sports.

In other words, he's here through our window and into the next rebuild. We will be bound by his cap hit in whatever roster we can piece together in that span.

 

[mas0764]

he's not getting bought out if thats what you're implying. He's going to likely be traded, but I would be amazed if he didnt get every penny of that deal.

It would be my suspicion that he's traded, and not bought out, correct. But if I had to rank order of likelihood, I'd go

1) Traded
2) Bought out
3) Sees the end of his deal in NYC

 

[mas0764]

In other words, he's here through our window and into the next rebuild. We will be bound by his cap hit in whatever roster we can piece together in that span.

I could see a move happening within the next 2 seasons. That wouldn't really be "through our window."

I mean, frankly I'm not really one who believes our window is even open yet, I don't think this roster can actually contend this season for anything more than a playoff series win. Playoff team, absolutely, but there's a big difference between being a favorite to make the playoffs and a favorite to win a Cup.

FWIW I view/viewed Trouba and Panarin as holdovers to get us to our window, not to be the main ingrendients OF our window. Winning the lotteries, as they said, "accelerated," the rebuild because they then expected to have two first line wingers in hand immediately (which then proceeded to not pan out that way as Kakko and Laf have been slow to develop). If instead they had Zegras and Lundell those two would probably still be in the minors or being brought along way more slowly and there would be no talk about competing this instant. Everyone would know the window wouldn't be opening until Zegras and Lundell were our elite 1-2 centers in 2-3 more seasons.

At the time of Panarin and Trouba's acquisition, they had to be thinking more along those lines - that they'd be getting a Zegras and a Lundell out of the next two drafts, not a Kakko and Lafreniere. Despite landing those two top picks they should have stuck to that plan; we'd be better off for it.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Barron with another goal in Hartford. Anybody else wonder what his offensive ceiling can max out as??
If he can be a big physical responsible 2C with Panarin and put up points, kill penalties, play physical etc
The rangers would be in the drivers seat. Maybe he maxes out as more then a 3C?

If he can replicate what Brian Boyle brought with a few more points I'll consider Barron a home run pick.

I personally wouldn't get my hopes up that he is a 2c. But and elite 3c would be a coup and help this team's future immensely. Then you could shift Fil to RW or package him with other assets for a 2c or 1LD.

 

[mas0764]

I think counting on Barron to be anything more than a decent 3C is a bad gamble.

If he is more, great.

But let's count on him being able to adequately man that 3C spot some day and go from there.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Kreider always has hot weeks that make us think he's reached a new gear. But he's 30 now. How likely is it that this isnt just one of his hot weeks and he will revert to his dormant slumber for the rest of the season? Kreider should get paid on commission.

The thing I've noticed over the years with Kreider is, it seems he has these hot streaks when the rest of the stars disappear. Then as soon as they get their act together, he settles back into a support role.

Can I support that with stats? No. But it's a thought that seems to run through my mind every season and I dont voice it here, then another season comes and goes and the behavior coincides with the circumstances yet again.

So...

Here's to a new season, maybe this year he'll turn the corner and be an Alpha regardless who else does what around him. Maybe I'll be wrong this time.

 

[Ola]

Family-focused Jacob Trouba sees long future with Rangers

That is now, in a year or two, we could see:
https://nypost.com/2022/06/18/recently-divorced-jacob-trouba-seek-trade-to-vegas-with-one-night-stands-in-mind/

 

[Avery16]

The thing I've noticed over the years with Kreider is, it seems he has these hot streaks when the rest of the stars disappear. Then as soon as they get their act together, he settles back into a support role.

Can I support that with stats? No. But it's a thought that seems to run through my mind every season and I dont voice it here, then another season comes and goes and the behavior coincides with the circumstances yet again.

So...

Here's to a new season, maybe this year he'll turn the corner and be an Alpha regardless who else does what around him. Maybe I'll be wrong this time.

This is where I am also, because we have very little alternative to hoping.

 

[duhmetreE]

Trouba will bring back the most in a trade IMO. We have Schneider as a possible replacement.

Kreider will bring back some decent pieces. We have Cuylle and Othmann as replacements.

There's 3 ( this, next and the one after) more seasons before they're even thought of being moved.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba will bring back the most in a trade IMO. We have Schneider as a possible replacement.

Kreider will bring back some decent pieces. We have Cuylle and Othmann as replacements.

There's 3 ( this, next and the one after) more seasons before they're even thought of being moved.

I think it could be sooner. Depends on how quickly Schneider and Robertson can bang down the door. Those kids are already in the AHL, will it be two more full seasons after this one before they are ready? I don't think so. And then what, we just keep them down there?

Ironically I think Kreider is way more needed long term (and this is coming from someone who still would have traded Kreider rather than re-sign him, even at the time, not in hindsight). Cuylle and Othmann I think won't be ready to replace him nearly as quickly, whereas I could see Schneider being a reasonable facsimile of Trouba (25 points, solid physical defensive play) within 2 seasons.

 

[Avery16]

Trouba will bring back the most in a trade IMO. We have Schneider as a possible replacement.

Kreider will bring back some decent pieces. We have Cuylle and Othmann as replacements.

There's 3 ( this, next and the one after) more seasons before they're even thought of being moved.

Unless you mean in 2024-25, Trouba will bring back nothing or next to nothing. He can block any trade until then. Our leverage with the hypothetically acquiring team will be nothing, as theyre dealing with Trouba, not with us.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Unless you mean in 2024-25, Trouba will bring back nothing or next to nothing. He can block any trade until then. Our leverage with the hypothetically acquiring team will be nothing, as theyre dealing with Trouba, not with us.

Trouba will immediately nix a trade to a non contender, and most of those don’t have the cap space to add 8m per

 

[Vitto79]

Is Villardi for Kravtsov a legit rumour ?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Is Villardi for Kravtsov a legit rumour ?

No. It’s a concept that’s been on hf for almost a few years now. Never ever been substantiated by any sources.

 

[Avery16]

Is Villardi for Kravtsov a legit rumour ?

Brooks spitballing, I thought

 

[mas0764]

Unless you mean in 2024-25, Trouba will bring back nothing or next to nothing. He can block any trade until then. Our leverage with the hypothetically acquiring team will be nothing, as theyre dealing with Trouba, not with us.

What he brings back will be cap space.

 

[Avery16]

What he brings back will be cap space.

We may have to retain and throw in a sweetener, but yes.

 

[Ruggs225]

I think we trade Lindgren before Trouba. Trouba brings alot more to the table. Yes he is 8m, but his play and presence is something we need.

Maybe Schneider can in the future, but i would love to have both if possible.

 

[duhmetreE]

Unless you mean in 2024-25, Trouba will bring back nothing or next to nothing. He can block any trade until then. Our leverage with the hypothetically acquiring team will be nothing, as theyre dealing with Trouba, not with us.

I literally said there's 3 more seasons before it's entertained.

 

[gravey9]

I think counting on Barron to be anything more than a decent 3C is a bad gamble.

If he is more, great.

But let's count on him being able to adequately man that 3C spot some day and go from there.

I love Barron, but he has a long way to go to become a solidified bottom 6 NHL player. He's continuing to develop nicely. But if you're team planning, he's a bottom 6 option as soon as later this year. Beyond that, it's really hard to gauge. No way of knowing how much of his offensive production will translate at the next level. But eye test tells me he's going to need to use his body to create space more than anything. Which leads me to believe he can be a punishing player either in bottom 6 or as a winger who can move up and down lineup at his peak. I kinda am hoping he becomes a bit of a Tyler Toffoli. But foot speed could hold him back a bit.