Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVII – Fortnight, Not Fortnite

[Gardner McKay]

Kreider should be traded for a good offer and then the money should be reinvested in Stone or Panarin. The contracts will be within 3M of each other. The other two are far better players. And the other two are slightly younger. There is no way that say 8M Kreider is more valuable than 11M Stone/Panarin+additional first round pick+additional top prospect+whatever.

Just out of curiosity..

What do you do when you trade Kreider and neither Stone or Panarin sign with us?

 

[Off Sides]

Because if you are rebuilding, then you cannot keep everyone. Some players need to be moved to replenish assets.

Everyone will. But you cannot have a team of 20 year olds for a successful rebuild to work.

I'm not sure why you think I am asking for all 20 year olds, the Rangers are going to have vets left even after selling, they will probably import some at the deadline if last deadline was an indicator, and there are always cheap, short term vet UFA left to be signed every free agency period. Trades are another avenue as vets are pretty cheap by trade compared to younger cost controlled players.

What I am saying is I think Kreider will ask for, and get as much if not more than his most likely comparable, Evander Kane, 7x7 with a 3 team only can trade to clause.

Which means he could be signed up until age 35-36

During which time he could decline as that is pretty normal.

 

[Thirty One]

Just out of curiosity..

What do you do when you trade Kreider and neither Stone or Panarin sign with us?

Wait for the next opportunity. If there's one thing we got, it's time. We've seen what the team is with Kreider and I don't think it's worth clinging to.

 

[Off Sides]

Kreider should be traded for a good offer and then the money should be reinvested in Stone or Panarin. The contracts will be within 3M of each other. The other two are far better players. And the other two are slightly younger. There is no way that say 8M Kreider is more valuable than 11M Stone/Panarin+additional first round pick+additional top prospect+whatever. If Kreider was not already on the team and you had the option to say...sign Panarin/Stone OR sign Kreider but it cost offersheet compensation say a 1st+2nd+3rd would anyone seriously take Kreider?

While I'd avoid those UFAs just as I would Kreider, I think your point is a good one.

 

[SA16]

Just out of curiosity..

What do you do when you trade Kreider and neither Stone or Panarin sign with us?

Panarin has already expressed interest and the Rangers are going to have a ton of cap space. Additionally if that happens you still have whatever haul of picks/prospects you got for Kreider and it also helps you bottom out either further next year in the Lafreniere draft rather than get caught in the middle (not my preferred option but a good fall back).

Pretend we did not have Kreider now and he was a FA. For the rights to sign him to an 8x8 deal would you give up a first round pick and Chytil? It's the same thing but in reverse.

 

[RGY]

Wait for the next opportunity. If there's one thing we got, it's time. We've seen what the team is with Kreider and I don't think it's worth clinging to.

Yes and no. Kreider seems to be hitting his stride/prime right now under DQ. He can be very effective the next 3-4 years imo.

I also dont see why we cant have both Kreider and Panarin. They can afford both.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Just out of curiosity..

What do you do when you trade Kreider and neither Stone or Panarin sign with us?

You quit franchise mode before it auto saves and restart your PS4.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Wait for the next opportunity. If there's one thing we got, it's time. We've seen what the team is with Kreider and I don't think it's worth clinging to.

While I agree we have plenty of time, filling holes via free agency/waiting for a big time player to hit free agency always makes me weary.

Panarin has already expressed interest and the Rangers are going to have a ton of cap space. Additionally if that happens you still have whatever haul of picks/prospects you got for Kreider and it also helps you bottom out either further next year in the Lafreniere draft rather than get caught in the middle (not my preferred option but a good fall back).

Idk. If anything, I'd bet on him signing with the Islanders. If he wants to come to NY, they are the ideal destination at the moment. We are not.

I agree I don't want to be stuck in the middle, that sucks. I am concerned on if we get fair value for Kreider. If Duchene and Stone weren't ****ing around, I believe we could get a haul. Their availability hurts us when attempting to get fair value for Kreider, vs. guys like Hayes or Zucc. Duchene, Stone, Kreider, they will be looked at as the piece that puts teams over the top (teams in the 5-8 seeds). Whereas a team that acquires Hayes or Zucc will more likely be looking to solidify an existing hole (1-4 seeds) but are generally viewed as a viable cup contender.

 

[RGY]

The dream is to add Tolvanen via trade for Hayes + or whatever it takes.

Fall in the standings enough where you either have a good chance of landing the 1/2 spot OR your close enough that your 1st is still high and valuable to be packaged with other picks. Draft Kakko.

Sign Panarin. Re-Sign Hayes. Sign EK. Move Smith’s contract out. Re-Sign McQuaid as the 7th. Trade 1-2 of Vesey/Nams/Strome. Move Pionk possibly.

Kreider-Zib-Tolvanen
Panarin-Hayes-Chytil
Kakko-Andersson/Howden-Kravtsov
Buch-Howden/Andersson-Fast

Skjei-EK
Staal-ADA
Lindgren-Shatty
Pionk/McQuaid

Hank
Shesty

 

[RangerBoy]

Since you had your hypothetical of Brassard for Zibanejad come to fruition, what’s your hypothetical return for Kreider?

The problem is the Rangers want a foundation piece back. McKenzie said the Rangers want a young foundation building block that’s very close to playing in the NHL or someone who is close to playing in the NHL. Are they getting that price for just one more season left on his contract?

I read Vegas is interested in Stone. Would they want Kreider? Is Brannstrom a foundation piece?
Carolina wants more goal scoring. Carolina is also interested in addressing their goaltending issues with a long term solution. They have all of those D. Three way D?



Columbus trades Panarin and takes those assets to replace Panarin’s goal scoring. The Bruins beat writer for The Athletic Fluto Shinzawa spoke to a few NHL executives and they think Columbus will ask for three pieces. 1st round pick. A high end prospect and a secondary prospect. Donato or Vaakanainen and Frederic plus #1. Is the Finnish D a foundation piece for the Rangers? Hayes fits Columbus too.

What is the Rangers interpretation of a foundation piece? They think Hajek will be a big time player. Who knows what they think?

 

[True Blue]

I'm not sure why you think I am asking for all 20 year olds, the Rangers are going to have vets left even after selling, they will probably import some at the deadline if last deadline was an indicator, and there are always cheap, short term vet UFA left to be signed every free agency period. Trades are another avenue as vets are pretty cheap by trade compared to younger cost controlled players.

What I am saying is I think Kreider will ask for, and get as much if not more than his most likely comparable, Evander Kane, 7x7 with a 3 team only can trade to clause.

Which means he could be signed up until age 35-36

During which time he could decline as that is pretty normal.

At some point, you will need to make a choice about which player you provide such a contract to. If your point is that they need to trade away Kreider because he will start to decline by that time, then who do you keep and lock up? Shouldn't you just move everyone who is over the age of 27?

 

[Off Sides]

Wanting a foundation piece back for a player who has this and next year left seems like they are expecting something out of the realm, yet like RB said what the Rangers see as a foundation piece could be different.

I just hope they are not stuck with a Backes, Ladd, Eriksson type when they are ready to maybe compete again.

 

[RGY]

They are also asking for a foundation piece because they are not inclined to trade Kreider. They probably see him as part of the solution for the other end of the rebuild when we are ready to compete again. So for them to trade him they have set the bar high.

 

[Off Sides]

At some point, you will need to make a choice about which player you provide such a contract to. If your point is that they need to trade away Kreider because he will start to decline by that time, then who do you keep and lock up? Shouldn't you just move everyone who is over the age of 27?

I'd be choosing the contracts really carefully, pure expensive, longer term UFA contracts in general work out so seldom that is not where I'd like to see them commit.

If I viewed this rebuild in the stage where a UFA contract could be the missing piece towards really contending, I'd feel differently but I think this is closer to the start than the end.

 

[NYR Viper]

I've discussed this before but I'll reiterate.

Chris Kreider will be 29 in the first year of his next deal.

Artemi Panarin will be 27 (born in October)

Mark Stone will be 27 (born in May)

Assume all those players get 7 year deals. If the MAIN concern with any of these guys is the final 2-3 years on their deals, Stone and Panarin will be YOUNGER than Kreider will be when their next contracts expire. That means, theoretically, more prime years in their next deals for Stone AND Panarin as opposed to Kreider.

Mark Stone
56 points in 55 games played

Artemi Panarin
63 points in 52 games played

Chris Kreider
42 points in 55 games played

All will be UFA's so we aren't looking at a discount for any of them. I'd assume the following contracts:

Stone
7 years @ $9m per season

Panarin
7 years @ $9.5m per season

Kreider
7 years @ $7.5m per season

 

[Gardner McKay]

Wanting a foundation piece back for a player who has this and next year left seems like they are expecting something out of the realm, yet like RB said what the Rangers see as a foundation piece could be different.

I just hope they are not stuck with a Backes, Ladd, Eriksson type when they are ready to maybe compete again.

Is it though?

A team acquiring Kreider gets him for two playoff runs. That is the main point. Whether Kreider was traded back in December or gets traded on deadline day, I would generally expect his value to be the same. A team is paying to get him for two runs. A guy like Kreider has produced in the playoffs which, as we saw with Rick Nash, isn't easy for everyone to do. There is more to it than just building and building forever. At some point you have to go for it. Lengthy playoff runs equal big dollars for owners. Cups equal even more.

It happens all the time in business. Management wants to do something and ownership is mandating something different. At the end of the day you have two choices. Comply and do the best you can or expect to be searching for a new job in the near future. Nashville has had a few good runs. I am sure Poile and Nashville ownership know they are right in the middle of their window. In 3-4 years Tolvanen may be a star but Nashville could be ready to rebuild at that time. Winnipeg isn't much different. Although their window is in the earlier phase, I am sure they believe they are a legitimate cup contender. Calgary is having a heck of a season. Vegas and San Jose made their big moves early on.

It is going to take some shrewd negotiating by JG but I firmly believe that getting a foundation piece is a high possibility. Also, I don't believe that managements definition is that much different from ours. A guy they believe can be a top-4 D or a top-6 F.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd keep an eye on Nashville for Kreider. It extends their window for both this year and next year. That team could be REALLY good with another net front guy like Kreider. Their points are among the best in the league at getting shots through to the net.

Adding Stone or Panrin are good for this year. Adding Kreider gives them size and 2 years of legit shots at the Cup. Winnipeg is a big team. Nashville knows they need to add some size (see Boyle and McLeod).

I think the deal the Rangers would be keying in on for Kreider would be Tolvanen + NSH 1st for Kreider. That's a building block piece. Perhaps the Preds like a 2nd piece from the Rangers for depth purposes and they can work in a guy like Fabbro

 

[DanielBrassard]

I've discussed this before but I'll reiterate.

Chris Kreider will be 29 in the first year of his next deal.

Artemi Panarin will be 27 (born in October)

Mark Stone will be 27 (born in May)

Assume all those players get 7 year deals. If the MAIN concern with any of these guys is the final 2-3 years on their deals, Stone and Panarin will be YOUNGER than Kreider will be when their next contracts expire. That means, theoretically, more prime years in their next deals for Stone AND Panarin as opposed to Kreider.

Mark Stone
56 points in 55 games played

Artemi Panarin
63 points in 52 games played

Chris Kreider
42 points in 55 games played

All will be UFA's so we aren't looking at a discount for any of them. I'd assume the following contracts:

Stone
7 years @ $9m per season

Panarin
7 years @ $9.5m per season

Kreider
7 years @ $7.5m per season

Panarin is looking for around 11M. And I don't know how many teams are going to be willing to offer 7 years to Kreider. I think he could get 5 years.

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[ZiGOODejad]

The dream is to add Tolvanen via trade for Hayes + or whatever it takes.

Fall in the standings enough where you either have a good chance of landing the 1/2 spot OR your close enough that your 1st is still high and valuable to be packaged with other picks. Draft Kakko.

Sign Panarin. Re-Sign Hayes. Sign EK. Move Smith’s contract out. Re-Sign McQuaid as the 7th. Trade 1-2 of Vesey/Nams/Strome. Move Pionk possibly.

Kreider-Zib-Tolvanen
Panarin-Hayes-Chytil
Kakko-Andersson/Howden-Kravtsov
Buch-Howden/Andersson-Fast

Skjei-EK
Staal-ADA
Lindgren-Shatty
Pionk/McQuaid

Hank
Shesty

It would be nice to get Tolvanen in a Hayes trade but I’m not sure they’re looking for a Hayes maybe Zucc fits their needs more

 

[Off Sides]

Is it though?

A team acquiring Kreider gets him for two playoff runs. That is the main point. Whether Kreider was traded back in December or gets traded on deadline day, I would generally expect his value to be the same. A team is paying to get him for two runs. A guy like Kreider has produced in the playoffs which, as we saw with Rick Nash, isn't easy for everyone to do. There is more to it than just building and building forever. At some point you have to go for it. Lengthy playoff runs equal big dollars for owners. Cups equal even more.

It happens all the time in business. Management wants to do something and ownership is mandating something different. At the end of the day you have two choices. Comply and do the best you can or expect to be searching for a new job in the near future. Nashville has had a few good runs. I am sure Poile and Nashville ownership know they are right in the middle of their window. In 3-4 years Tolvanen may be a star but Nashville could be ready to rebuild at that time. Winnipeg isn't much different. Although their window is in the earlier phase, I am sure they believe they are a legitimate cup contender. Calgary is having a heck of a season. Vegas and San Jose made their big moves early on.

It is going to take some shrewd negotiating by JG but I firmly believe that getting a foundation piece is a high possibility. Also, I don't believe that managements definition is that much different from ours. A guy they believe can be a top-4 D or a top-6 F.

I think concerning past trades, yes it would be difficult for me to find any even somewhat recent trades where a player with two playoffs left commanded a return that was seen as a foundation piece at the time.

I would guess Erat Forsberg would be the closest yet I'm not sure that is a repeatable feat.

 

[NYR Viper]

Panarin is looking for around 11M. And I don't know how many teams are going to be willing to offer 7 years to Kreider. I think he could get 5 years.

I can see him asking for that, not sure he gets $11m.

I definitely see Kreider getting 7 years. Evander Kane just got 7 years

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think concerning past trades, yes it would be difficult for me to find any even somewhat recent trades where a player with two playoffs left commanded a return that was seen as a foundation piece at the time.

I would guess Erat Forsberg would be the closest yet I'm not sure that is a repeatable feat.

There is a saying... if Paul Gaustad can return a 1st, anything is possible.

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin
7years 11M

Stone
6 years 9M

Kreider
5years 7M

 

[Lion Hound]

7 Games, in 15 days to the trade deadline.

Jets, Sabres, Pens, Canes, Wild, Devils, Caps.

Club has won 6 out of their last 10 games. They pretty much suck at tanking, yet they aren't good enough to make the playoffs. Wheres does that leave them?

Mired in Mediocrity!

It was fun beating the Leafs though.