Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Fitzy]

I looked through the Bruins prospect list

Axel Andersson is a right handed D playing in Sweden, but didn't make the WJC squad. Anyone know why?

We've been talking about Senyshyn and the kid Frederic since the Nash rumors last year, neither seems to have increased their value since then.

 

[Ori]

Who would need Marc Staal maybe Leafs? They lost 3-2 vs Detroit last night with newly acquired Jake Muzzin - so they are probalby not done shopping since it`s their window this year based on cap reasons with Marner & Matthews - it would be great to see Marc Staal to get a cup.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

If your trading Kreider at least one of Vaak or Studnicka and a 1st would be in the deal. Then one of Fredrick or JFK. Then a conditional 1st if they either resign him or make it to the finals this year or next.

 

[Ghost of jas]

IMO, it would stupid to bundle Hayes and Kreider in the same deal. I believe you minimize your return that way.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Who would need Marc Staal maybe Leafs? They lost 3-2 vs Detroit last night with newly acquired Jake Muzzin - so they are probalby not done shopping since it`s their window this year based on cap reasons with Marner & Matthews - it would be great to see Marc Staal to get a cup.

Leafs are going to be in cap hell. They just acquired a LHD with size in Muzzin. No sense in them trading for Staal - even if we retain on him.

 

[Mikos87]

"All things Boston." New York is like the metropolis of the world. Rangers should attract the best talents, players and coaches from every corner of the world. Not mainly from New England. This probably shows Gortons limitations. Boston is what he knows best. And if Rangers want to take part in an internationally growt in sports media rights and merchandise sales they better start to think differently. (Look to English Premier league.)
"Like the castle in its corner In a medieval game I foresee terrible trouble And I stay here just the same"

I think they are from an amateur scouting perspective, but I agree with you. It's a limitation of the connections/relationships that Gorts might have. The hockey world is a pretty small tight knit group, and some guys only trade with a limited set of guys in their Rolodex. A prime example is CHI and ARI. They pretty much swapped 15% of their roster over the course of the last few years.

The Boston connections, I think also stems from Gordie Clark as well. When the guy in charge of your amateur development, and the guys in charge of your professional both hail from the same place, and worked for their local organization, it does limit how expansive the "inner circle" is going to be.

We're seeing some shifts with Bobrov taking a more prominent role. But you are right. In the grander scheme of things, the outreach of the management's professional network needs to expand.

 

[RangerBoy]

9. Considering what it took to get Niederreiter out of Minnesota, it’ll be interesting to see what kind of package Philadelphia’s Wayne Simmonds commands, but I very much doubt it’ll be worth it as he’s no longer a player that moves the needle much. He’s 30 years old now, an age where players that play with an edge generally begin a steep decline. To that point, he is posting his lowest point-scoring rate since 2010-11, a year where he played three fewer minutes per game.

At 5-on-5 that scoring rate isn’t a surprise though, he’s been at a fourth line level for three seasons now with a points-per-60 rate of 1.14, 1.29, and 1.21. This year though saw his power play efficiency sink as he’s scored at his lowest rate since becoming a power play regular. Maybe that’s bad luck as he’s getting as many chances than ever, but I’m not so sure.

The thing with Simmonds too is that if he’s not scoring, he’s not really helping much aside from playing with an edge. He’s never been much of a strong play-driver, but over the last three years his on-ice numbers have tanked as he’s been pushed out of the top six. That likely signifies that he’s a player who’s dependent on others to succeed and while he may just do that with better linemates, that’s not the type of player that commands a high price-tag.

It takes a while for a player’s reputation to change and we’re seeing that this season with Simmonds. He’s not the player he used to be. Buyer beware.

10. Mats Zuccarello and Gustav Nyquist are two other right wingers on the market who seem like they should be worth much more but don’t seem to generate the same type of buzz. These are guys who still contribute on the scoresheet at a high level (Zuccarello has been playing at a 50-to-60 point pace for six straight seasons and Nyquist is close to 70 this season) while being responsible players in all three zones. I don’t get it, but I guess that’s why I’m writing this and not actually making decisions. Time will tell.

31 Stats: Columbus' conundrum, Jake Muzzin's impact and...

Zuccarello is such a better player than Simmonds. Pierre LeBrun loves to talk up Simmonds. LeBrun wrote Zuccarello was worth a 3rd round pick. Does he watch the games? Just wait until Simmonds hits the trade market, teams will be climbing all over themselves to pry him away from Philadelphia. OK Pierre.

Elliotte Friedman said the Flyers have found a soft market for Simmonds.

Zuccarello is averaging .75 points per game this season. Simmonds is at .45.

Hayes is at .85.

The Canadian media will tell you Simmonds is better than Zuccarello or Hayes. Come on.

Steep decline at 30 is the worrisome issue with Kreider and all players at that age. Kreider signed a 4 year contract at 25. The Rangers were looking for a longer term but Kreider wanted a shorter term. 4 years is where they settled to avoid arbitration. Smart play by his agent Matt Keator. Kreider signs his last big and biggest contract at 29 before he hits the steep decline. He gets his money and doesn't have to worry about being a group III at 30 or 31.

 

[kovazub94]

31 Stats: Columbus' conundrum, Jake Muzzin's impact and...

Zuccarello is such a better player than Simmonds. Pierre LeBrun loves to talk up Simmonds. LeBrun wrote Zuccarello was worth a 3rd round pick. Does he watch the games? Just wait until Simmonds hits the trade market, teams will be climbing all over themselves to pry him away from Philadelphia. OK Pierre.

Elliotte Friedman said the Flyers have found a soft market for Simmonds.

Zuccarello is averaging .75 points per game this season. Simmonds is at .45.

Hayes is at .85.

The Canadian media will tell you Simmonds is better than Zuccarello or Hayes. Come on.

Steep decline at 30 is the worrisome issue with Kreider and all players at that age. Kreider signed a 4 year contract at 25. The Rangers were looking for a longer term but Kreider wanted a shorter term. 4 years is where they settled to avoid arbitration. Smart play by his agent Matt Keator. Kreider signs his last big and biggest contract at 29 before he hits the steep decline. He gets his money and doesn't have to worry about being a group III at 30 or 31.

Did you bother to read the write up you posted? Simmonds has been consistently producing 5x5 at a 4-liner level for 3 seasons; if he doesn’t score - he doesn’t drive the play and is depended on his linemates otherwise. How’s that similar to Kreider?

 

[duhmetreE]

31 Stats: Columbus' conundrum, Jake Muzzin's impact and...

Zuccarello is such a better player than Simmonds. Pierre LeBrun loves to talk up Simmonds. LeBrun wrote Zuccarello was worth a 3rd round pick. Does he watch the games? Just wait until Simmonds hits the trade market, teams will be climbing all over themselves to pry him away from Philadelphia. OK Pierre.

Elliotte Friedman said the Flyers have found a soft market for Simmonds.

Zuccarello is averaging .75 points per game this season. Simmonds is at .45.

Hayes is at .85.

The Canadian media will tell you Simmonds is better than Zuccarello or Hayes. Come on.

Steep decline at 30 is the worrisome issue with Kreider and all players at that age. Kreider signed a 4 year contract at 25. The Rangers were looking for a longer term but Kreider wanted a shorter term. 4 years is where they settled to avoid arbitration. Smart play by his agent Matt Keator. Kreider signs his last big and biggest contract at 29 before he hits the steep decline. He gets his money and doesn't have to worry about being a group III at 30 or 31.

Kreider is in the great shape. I see him as a Guerin-type more than anything, when it comes to production outlook

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm less worried about decline with Kreider than I was with Callahan because of his Softish body contact compared to a Callahan or Prust. Kreider never plows through anyone, he makes contact but it's to separate from the puck not to hurt, I think I'm comfortable giving him a 5 year deal.

 

[haohmaru]

Imagine what the bitching around here would be like had we signed Callahan to that 7M deal he wanted? Yikes.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Imagine what the *****ing around here would be like had we signed Callahan to that 7M deal he wanted? Yikes.

We were smart to let him go, as well as Prust. Those guys played hard, bigger than their size. It's my only bit of trepidation to resigning Zuc, if theres no deal for him at the deadline a 2 year contract is all I'm willing to go.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm less worried about decline with Kreider than I was with Callahan because of his Softish body contact compared to a Callahan or Prust. Kreider never plows through anyone, he makes contact but it's to separate from the puck not to hurt, I think I'm comfortable giving him a 5 year deal.

I kinda hear what you’re saying. If we were to define Kreider’s style of play as either physical or speed, I’d easily go with speed. However he definitely knows how and does supplement or enhances his speed advantage with using his physical strength. His use of his physicality is quite different from Callaghan’s (or Dubinsky) on top of being well more skilled offensively.

 

[NYR Viper]

Years 1-4 are not what concerns me with Kreider. It’s 5-7 which I’m sure he will be offered from multiple sources around the league. Teams that are on the cusp of truly competing for The Cup in those next 4 years the deals like that are palatable. But this team probably isn’t doing that in his first 2-3 years of his deal. That just means the team will most likely have a diminished Kreider at a cap hit exceeding what his on ice play calls for.

If Gorton can find a good deal for Kreider this deadline I’d move him. Hayes, Zuccarello and McQuaid are obvious. Guys like Namestnikov, Strome, Fast and Vesey, to me, are then used as placeholders.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Years 1-4 are not what concerns me with Kreider. It’s 5-7 which I’m sure he will be offered from multiple sources around the league. Teams that are on the cusp of truly competing for The Cup in those next 4 years the deals like that are palatable. But this team probably isn’t doing that in his first 2-3 years of his deal. That just means the team will most likely have a diminished Kreider at a cap hit exceeding what his on ice play calls for.

If Gorton can find a good deal for Kreider this deadline I’d move him. Hayes, Zuccarello and McQuaid are obvious. Guys like Namestnikov, Strome, Fast and Vesey, to me, are then used as placeholders.

This is kind of how I feel about it too

 

[NYR Viper]

I kinda hear what you’re saying. If we were to define Kreider’s style of play as either physical or speed, I’d easily go with speed. However he definitely knows how and does supplement or enhances his speed advantage with using his physical strength. His use of his physicality is quite different from Callaghan’s (or Dubinsky) on top of being well more skilled offensively.

It’s an interesting case because throughout history there are countless examples of players who used their physical attributes mainly not aging well. Would we consider Kreider a guy who, if he loses a step, could find other ways to have a large impact on a game?

He’s not super skilled where he is going to be able to use that to continue to have a large impact IMO. He uses his size, strength and speed to retrieve pucks and create space for himself, at which he excels.

Now in saying that, he’s also a guy who clearly is a tireless worker outside the rink as far as his physical strength.

Hence why it’s an interesting case. I think I’d lean towards thinking he would maybe extend his effective time by a year or so. Maybe he stays in his prime until about 32-33, which would be Year 4 of his next deal. Most guys I’d say 30-31 before they lose their peak barring being an elite skilled player

 

[Webster]

We were smart to let him go, as well as Prust. Those guys played hard, bigger than their size. It's my only bit of trepidation to resigning Zuc, if theres no deal for him at the deadline a 2 year contract is all I'm willing to go.

Only 2 years? Won't happen...perhaps you should read Sean Hartnett's article..

Hartnett: Is Zuccarello Part Of Rangers’ Plan For Future?

 

[NYR Viper]

Panthers are rumored to want to buy out Reimer who has two years left at $3.4m cap hit per season. Would Florida consider a Brendan Smith for James Reimer deal? It would be just about a million in cap savings for the Rangers. Perhaps Florida would like the idea of having Smith in lieu of the dead cap space accompanied by the buyout

 

[Lion Hound]

I def have the fear that Zucc's worth might not be as high as what many of us think. 2 things factor. Size, age. Its great that there are so many smaller forward around now, but lets face it. The bigger bodied players like RB mentioned just have that extra appeal that the Canadian market praises.

His recent play is certainly elevating that. Its like he found the work ethic that made him a fan fave for his entore carrer here. Scouts that are watching him have got to take notice. He has been excellent. If he goes via trade they are selling high again.

I think the ask is the 1st and a B or C prospect. I think its possible to get a 1st. Also think it depends on how the market plays out. They had a deal in place last year. Didnt happen becuase they ran out of time. Cant make that mistake this year.

 

[True Blue]

He’s not super skilled where he is going to be able to use that to continue to have a large impact IMO. He uses his size, strength and speed to retrieve pucks and create space for himself, at which he excels.

He is also the best (IMO, not one of, THE) in front of the net. That is not quantified in any of the attributes you list. BTW, this is with no snark.

 

[NYR Viper]

He is also the best (IMO, not one of, THE) in front of the net. That is not quantified in any of the attributes you list. BTW, this is with no snark.

Nope that is 100% accurate. That’s a skill the tends to translate well with age on the PP mainly but not to 5v5. I’d assume that skill remains throughout most of his next contract but that’s part of the rub too. Most of his goals are scored from a particular area where his physical tools allow for him to create separation or space. It’s a skill, for sure, but is that a skill that ages well?

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m hoping for what grabner got us Zucc has dogged it for a year and a half. Finally turning it on now realizing he needs to earn a new contract if he wants to stay in the league. If we get a first and anything it will be a steal.

 

[cheech70]

Jack Studnicka is someone that seems to be can't miss top 6. What would be an acceptable package for Kreider starting with Studnicka at the deadline? Also would we get a greater return at the draft after the lottery?

 

[Mikos87]

IMO, it would stupid to bundle Hayes and Kreider in the same deal. I believe you minimize your return that way.

I'm all for maximizing the return, but packaging the two all depends on the return.

If a team like BOS offers more than two seperate deals, then why not.

I agree that the odds of two different scouting staffs are more likely to offer better players than one. I'm other words, how many aces are in a single farm system at a given time?

But if Gorts pillages a single farm, and gets picks, I'm not opposed to it.

 

[Mikos87]

Jack Studnicka is someone that seems to be can't miss top 6. What would be an acceptable package for Kreider starting with Studnicka at the deadline? Also would we get a greater return at the draft after the lottery?

I would be elated at Studnika, Frederic and a 1st.

Although I don't see BOS giving that up.