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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIII

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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
I think you're letting the position he plays cloud your overall judgement on who was the better hockey player.
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No, in my opinion it`s about overall production. Stepan is average a 50 pts. player - where Chris is about 40. And look at Chris career stats and compare him with Stepan - I don`t even consider ice positions in such an evaluation. Stepan has 6 seasons above 50 pts. Kreider has his record year and only hit 50 pts. one time in his career - he is usually more cold than hot and my reasoning why Jeff Gorton should explore the market with him.
 
offdacrossbar said:
resigning hayes and ck and building around them isnt the same as the 90's when we signed fossils to retirement contracts.
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No, but it does resemble the extensions we made with guys like Stepan, Girardi, and Staal.

Webster said:
So how about this? Trade Kreider and Hayes. Build around the Zucc & Zib duo, they have been amazing lately, tons of chemistry there. Make Zucc the captain. Team certainly wouldn't mind this, nor the coach. It's a more realistic option than you think..
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Nobody here wants to see this scenario except for you.

Hope your bags are packed, Webster. Clock's ticking.........
7Yy8.gif
 
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Tawnos said:
I love your username.

Look, I'm not a believer in monolithic team building, but in a sense, there are only two ways to build a team... and that's either around top-end talent or around absurd forward depth in front of elite goaltending and D. On the first, Zuccarello doesn't fit the bill as top-end talent. Kreider is more of an open question, because he's clearly a top-2o LW in the game, but I don't think he fits the bill either. Not really. These guys are more the Patrick Sharps to the Kane-Toews-Hossa-Keith set up than part of that top-end group.

For absurd depth... well, at that point you aren't really building around those guys then either, since they're just part of a much larger group.
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Thank you, friend.

They came pretty close to winning a Cup with crazy depth and an elite goalie. I think Zucc, as much as I love him, is a guy you have to move at the deadline. Probably Hayes too. And then there's guys like like Nams, Vesey, McQuaid who will also get moved. So that leaves Zibanejad and Kreider. Zibanejad is on a crazy good deal and while he's not McDavid or Matthews elite, I don't think you can say for sure he's not good enough to win a championship. Yet, people think he needs to be moved this season. Kreider isn't elite, although you can make an argument he does certain things at an elite level, but his next deal isn't going to pay him like an elite player. I think 7x7 is fair for both sides. And if he demands a crazy contract, move him at the draft or in the offseason.

What does keeping 93 and 20 prevent this team from doing, other than being beyond god awful? Sure, move all four and you're looking at a bottom three team. Maybe they get lucky and land Hughes. Even that's no guarantee, it's not like the NBA of NFL where the worst team gets the #1 pick. But what are you adding him to? They'd be god awful for years. Personally, I'd rather they keep some guys, unless the return is astronomical, and supplement the roster with young players coming through the system (I'd be shocked if they don't have 3 first round picks at next years draft) and a smart FA signing here and there.
 
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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I disagree with this entirely provided almost exclusively in the position that Stepan plays and the assignments he drew. I think you are letting natural god-given physical attributes cloud your judgement on who was the better hockey player.
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perhaps but really i think derek stepan was always fairly pedestrian. bland and slow.

as good as he supposedly was, he left me wanting more and usually shaking my head with his inability to score slam dunk goals and always looking like he was skating in mud.

i can admit i was never a huge fan and when he was dealt is wasnt upset in the least.
 
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Vinny DeAngelo said:
The only trades ive been disappointed in were the Yandle, Staal, and Smith Trades... This FO has earned my trust so far
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I thought the Yandle trade was okay, but the usage was poor, as was the decision to use him as the team's rental.

I wasn't a particular fan of the MSL-Callahan trade.

I got the context, but felt the Rangers paid a little too steep of a price for an older player --- even with term left.
 
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Edge said:
I thought the Yandle trade was okay, but the usage was poor, as was the decision to use him as the team's rental.

I wasn't a particular fan of the MSL-Callahan trade.

I got the context, but felt the Rangers paid a little too steep of a price for an older player --- even with term left.
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The Callahan trade was ****ing brutal.

What bothered me about the Yandle tradecat the time was I was pretty high on Duke. But we got him with retention and for 2 runs.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
I think you're letting the position he plays cloud your overall judgement on who was the better hockey player.
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I love Kreider, but production-wise his best season was basically an average season for Stepan. Add in what Step did on the PK and being a center and the edge goes to him. Talent? Kreider blows Step away. But production-wise Step has him.
 
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I'm so bored this time of year. Hurry up and wait!

So are we all thinking the same shit?

Zucc to Calgary, Colorado or Dallas?
Hayes to the Jets, Bruins or Colorado?
McQuaid to Toronto?
Smith and Staal to the whale?
 
Clean house post! And quick rebuild into contender

Zuc to Ana for 2nd and Max Jones
Hayes to Col for 1st, Jost, and 5th (turns into 2020 3rd if resigned)
Names to Bos for 2nd and Steen
McQ to Tor for 3rd and Timoshev
Shatty to Dal for 3rd, Hanzal, and Honka
Strome to LAV for 3rd and Kolesar
Buy out Smith or hopefully trade him for nuttin, I’d eat 1 mil year

at draft trade 2 3rds for a 2nd and 2 2nds for a 1st, we’ll have 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,5,6,7

Sign EK and Panarin

Panarin Ziba Andersson
Krieder Chytil Krat
Jost Howton Buch
Vesey Hanzal Fast
Nieves
(Jones/Timoshev pushing for spots)

Staal EK
Skjei Pionk
Hajek/Lindgren ADA/Honka
Claesson
 
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I'd rather keep Kreider but if you can get a slam dunk deal for him, move him

Necas/Makar type guy, but I don't think they'll be made available for Kreider

Larry is also way off on the numbers, 6x6 isn't close at all. At the very least Kreider would get 7 million on the open market, and probably goes up from there
 
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I kind of feel like the Kreider-Stepan conversation comes down to the old natural ability/skill vs. hockey smarts/application discussion.

I think Kreider is a more naturally talented and dangerous player --- he's a rare combination of size and skill. And it's awesome...when it comes together.

Stepan doesn't jump off the page at you. He's steady, not flashy and can quietly put together a very strong game and never be noticed.

I think Stepan had the better early career, and that Kreider will have the better career later on. We almost forget that they're only a year apart, even though Stepan feels older.
 
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SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
Smith and Staal are not the same to me.

Smith I never want to see again.

Staal has been OK this year. It's clear he has a leadership position on this team. His caphit really isn't preventing the team from doing anything, right now and I don't see an obvious example of a younger guy he's blocking.
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Staal to me is what he is --- an average third pair defenseman. He's overpaid, but he can serve a role until someone else comes along. I doubt we can trade him, so we just ride out the contract.
 
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