Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIII

[SA16]

He signed or gave a PTO to Tom Sesito a few weeks ago

That doesn't cost an asset and it was a tryout play in the AHL.

Probably because he’s one guy, and I’m sure there are some people in his front office who are advocates of “physicality”. I wouldn’t expect a guy like Dubas to hire a bunch of “yes men” to agree with every player evaluation he makes.

He is the guy in charge. If other people in his front office advocate for him he can make the final decision to say no.

 

[Edge]

I think you'll find that even among those who pay close attention to analytics, that they really aren't zealots about it.

The die by the sword mentality for most concepts in the sport are usually adopted by fans --- and usually those fans who are particularly drawn to social media.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

The Rangers got a 2nd and 3rd for Talbot. That's pretty good value for a backup goalie, regardless of how much anyone liked Talbot and his cool masks.

On another note, I don't understand how anyone could want Mcquaid back. He hasn't been good when he has played and he, unsurprisingly, missed a lot of time with injuries. I still don't see any logic as to why he was brought here in the first place.

We are undoubtedly going to be stuck with Staal next year. There is no reason to bring another plodding defender, who has no future with this team, back again. I much prefer the strategy of trying to identify undervalued, overlooked, talent like with Claesson.

 

[SA16]

McQuaid is just a bad player and has perceived value as a good teammate and playoff performer because he came up at a time where his style of play was valued. He's a complete black hole offensively who takes an egregious amount of penalties whose team has been getting killed while he's been on the ice this year. His stats in Boston aren't even as good as they appear as they are buoyed by almost 1/3 of his ice time being with the Bergeron line.

 

[Beacon]

I think this is a pretty accurate assessment/prediction of what could be. Only thing i would disagree with is the Shatty/Smith/Staal piece. I don't see clubs offering up a first for Staal or Smith. Staal has been better this season. But i would still question if he is actually tradeable at this stage. Getting back a 1st to me is never going to happen. Same for Smith for obvious reasons. If, Shatty can play a little more consistent and drive his PP numbers up a bit i can see him getting a better return. Bigger name, reclamation project sort of trade.

I think next year someone would give a #2 for Staal and/or Smith. A team would get 2 playoff runs for 1 season of the cap if the trade takes place at the TDL 2020. By then, the cap will be higher too, so a smaller percentage of the cap.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

McQuaid is just a bad player and has perceived value as a good teammate and playoff performer because he came up at a time where his style of play was valued. He's a complete black hole offensively who takes an egregious amount of penalties whose team has been getting killed while he's been on the ice this year. His stats in Boston aren't even as good as they appear as they are buoyed by almost 1/3 of his ice time being with the Bergeron line.

I don't even care about his career with Boston as that's neither here nor there, but he has been an abomination on this team and I literally cannot see even one minor argument for having him back on this team.

 

[Crease]

I think next year someone would give a #2 for Staal and/or Smith. A team would get 2 playoff runs for 1 season of the cap if the trade takes place at the TDL 2020. By then, the cap will be higher too, so a smaller percentage of the cap.

Smith is a bad hockey player and should feel bad.

Staal I agree has some trade value because he checks all the boxes for the classic GM that didn't do proper due diligence: Great prime? Check. Former first round pick? Check. Famous last name? Check.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I think next year someone would give a #2 for Staal and/or Smith. A team would get 2 playoff runs for 1 season of the cap if the trade takes place at the TDL 2020. By then, the cap will be higher too, so a smaller percentage of the cap.

I don't see any world where anyone is giving up a 2nd for Staal or Smith. Smith, to me, is basically dead weight. I don't see any team taking him on. Staal, I guess it's feasible in some sense seeing as I'm sure there are other idiot GM's around the league who look at his play this year as decent, but still, a 2nd seems way to high. I'd be ecstatic just to move him for anything. If we get even a mid-round pick that would exceed any expectations.

He is absolutely awful and brings nothing other then veteran leadership to a young team. I guess you can argue he eats minutes, but he does it at an awfully low level. Maybe he is a serviceable 3rd pairing D-Man on a middling team, but surely he cannot play on the top two pairs any longer.

 

[JimmyG89]

Smith got paid and checked out. He got in shape, but it hasn't translated. They should Redden him for the duration of the deal.

Staal? Nobody is giving anything of value, even retained, for Marc Staal.

 

[Beacon]

Maybe Staal and Smith don't bring as much, I just thought teams are always desperate for defensemen.

Either way, MZA, Hayes, Kreider can get a first and a prospect (maybe more for Kreider). I think Shatty brings in a late first and a B prospect next season. Names for a second.

4 firsts, a second and a few prospects in addition to our own picks/prospects is what the doctor ordered. If that group produces 3 top9 forwards or top5 D, it would make a huge difference.

 

[RangerBoy]

Rick Carpiniello is holding a chat at The Athletic

Nothing earth shattering

 

[NYR Viper]

Smith got paid and checked out. He got in shape, but it hasn't translated. They should Redden him for the duration of the deal.

Staal? Nobody is giving anything of value, even retained, for Marc Staal.

Hanzal + Nichuskin for Smith. Makes SO MUCH SENSE FOR BOTH TEAMS

 

[Lone Ranger]

The Rangers are nowhere near done with the asset accumulation stage. Right now, even if 100% of the youth hits their ceiling, the team will still need to acquire talent as UFAs. But 100% of the youth won't hurt their ceiling, not even close to 50%, probably not even 20%.

Here's an optimistic scenario:

1. One of Chytil or Kratsov becomes a first liner.
2. One of Chytil/Kravtsov, Lias, Howden becomes a strong second liner.
3. One more of them a middle 6 forward and one becomes a random scrub NHLer without much trade value.
4. One of Vinni, Gettinger, Meskanen, Barron turns into a middle 6 player. Maybe one more 4th liner in the bunch.
5. One of Fontaine, Gropp, Fogarty, Nieves becomes a good 4th liner.

That's 4 in the top9, 2 fourth liners. Zib, Butcher, Vesey, Fast, Strome is another 5 for 11 total (MZA, Kreider, Hayes will be traded or not resigned). Still pretty bad up front and need at least one more first liner.

On defense, Shatty and Smith will leave.

1. Skjei, Pionk are players.
2. One or two of Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren make it.
3. One or both of K'Andre or Lundkvist make it.
4. Possibly one lesser talent like Keane, Gross, Crawley, Rag, Bigras makes it.

Still need at least one more first pair guy. And it could, and probably likely wil go worse than what I wrote:

1. Kravtsov and Chytil become middle 6 guys who are ok, but not great on the second line.
2. Lias becomes Malhotra.
3. All lower prospects (Vinni, Nieves, Meskanen, Barron, Gropp, Gettinger, Fontaine, Crawley, Bigras) fail.
4. Only one of Hajek, Rykov and Lindgren has an NHL career, and that's on the third pair.
5. Fast begins to fade as he approaches 30.
6. Vesey and Strome prove it was just a good half a season and go back to being 4th liners with little trade value.
7. One of K'andre or Lundkvist becomes a 4D, the other cant transition to the NHL.

The outcome is 2 decent, but not great forwards and one such defenseman.

This scenario isnt even worst case, it is a very possible scenario. We need to acquire more talent, particularly of the high risk, high return variety.

Hayes, Zuccarello, can wach bring a first and a B prospect; Names a second. Tampa will give us 1 or 2.

Shatty, Smith, Staal will bring back a first or a second each, depending on how good they will last. Kreider fetches a first plus a good prospect.

That's 6 top-62 picks this year and next. JG can go for high risk draftees become of such great odds of someone working g out if you have that many early picks.

Great write-up! Where does ADA fit in your future projections?

 

[RangersNorway]

Based on speculations: Pit wants Hayes Dal wants Zucc and Brass.

What about this?

NYR trade Hayes and another asset to Pit for something like Brass and their 1st or 2nd and 3rd pick.

Then trade Zucc and Brass to Dallas for their 2019 1st, 2020 1st and Honka?

 

[Lion Hound]

The Rangers got a 2nd and 3rd for Talbot. That's pretty good value for a backup goalie, regardless of how much anyone liked Talbot and his cool masks.

On another note, I don't understand how anyone could want Mcquaid back. He hasn't been good when he has played and he, unsurprisingly, missed a lot of time with injuries. I still don't see any logic as to why he was brought here in the first place.

We are undoubtedly going to be stuck with Staal next year. There is no reason to bring another plodding defender, who has no future with this team, back again. I much prefer the strategy of trying to identify undervalued, overlooked, talent like with Claesson.

I'll play along. Prior to McQuaids arrival, when was the last time this team played for each other, or stood up for each other?

 

[Beacon]

Great write-up! Where does ADA fit in your future projections?

Lol, forgot him. But he's there in the bottom-3 of the D long term. I think he's a 4-6 NHL D.

 

[Lion Hound]

Smith got paid and checked out. He got in shape, but it hasn't translated. They should Redden him for the duration of the deal.

Staal? Nobody is giving anything of value, even retained, for Marc Staal.

Maybe Staal and Smith don't bring as much, I just thought teams are always desperate for defensemen.

Either way, MZA, Hayes, Kreider can get a first and a prospect (maybe more for Kreider). I think Shatty brings in a late first and a B prospect next season. Names for a second.

4 firsts, a second and a few prospects in addition to our own picks/prospects is what the doctor ordered. If that group produces 3 top9 forwards or top5 D, it would make a huge difference.

There is logic there...i mean, Taylor Hall was traded for Adam Larsson.

 

[Bob Richards]

There is logic there...i mean, Taylor Hall was traded for Adam Larsson.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Based on speculations: Pit wants Hayes Dal wants Zucc and Brass.

What about this?

NYR trade Hayes and another asset to Pit for something like Brass and their 1st or 2nd and 3rd pick.

Then trade Zucc and Brass to Dallas for their 2019 1st, 2020 1st and Honka?

Why Honka?

He's a lesser ADA.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Why Honka?

He's a lesser ADA.

He was once a highly touted prospect. That is the only reason.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

He was once a highly touted prospect. That is the only reason.

I feel Liljegren is slowly getting into that territory, Toronto is lacking talent on their right side aren’t they? Why isn’t he getting a better look?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I feel Liljegren is slowly getting into that territory, Toronto is lacking talent on their right side aren’t they? Why isn’t he getting a better look?

Liljegren was drafted 18 months ago. D-men take longer to develop. Hajek, drafted a year earlier is still in the AHL.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Liljegren was drafted 18 months ago. D-men take longer to develop. Hajek, drafted a year earlier is still in the AHL.

I don’t disagree but we’re weak on LD and injury ridden so therefore Lindgren is getting a shot. You would think with a blue chip like Liljegren he would get similar treatment, considering he technically fell on draft day.

Edit: i am in no way degrading Liljegren, i think he’s going to be a good player, just trying to make a point about perceptions of prospects

 

[bl02]

Based on speculations: Pit wants Hayes Dal wants Zucc and Brass.

What about this?

NYR trade Hayes and another asset to Pit for something like Brass and their 1st or 2nd and 3rd pick.

Then trade Zucc and Brass to Dallas for their 2019 1st, 2020 1st and Honka?

Honestly if that was even remotely possible Gorton should jump on it. Would help the tank as well because the longer they keep these guys in the lineup the chances of getting a top 3-5 pick get more and more distant. So basically 3 first rounders for Zucc and Hayes is fair. Not sure how the Stars feel about Honka. Also that 2020 first rounder could be enticing from dallas if its not lottery protected.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I have a feeling that Talbot+ will be coming back in a trade that sends Zuc to Edmonton.