Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIII

[Fitzy]

I mean, I'm sure NYR will ask if Makar can be included, since they tried to trade up for him.

Doesn't mean they'll get him though. Makar by himself would be an amazing return.

 

[kovazub94]

People continue to confuse what the likely Ranger approach to trading Kreider (and most likely Zibanejad) is. It’s not about getting a fair deal. It’s about getting overwhelming offer. If someone wants Kreider, they’re going to have to overpay. I don’t care if people think the deal is fair for the other team. Gorton doesn’t have to trade Kreider. There’s no point in bundling him with Hayes.

This should be a copy / paste response to any “fair” trade offer for Kreider.

 

[mike14]

Why are we moving these guys? And for what?

The 'for what' is the million $$ question, but the 'why', at least to me is because 3 of the names listed are 3rd line, complimentary wingers and there's only 2 3rd line wing spots. Add to that we also have Buch, Strome, Andersson who likely fit into the same category, plus potential some returns from other trades, and you quickly have a logjam of 'role players', of which there isn't much point in keeping all of them.

IMO some of the above really should be moved, whether it's as part of a trade at the TDL to get a better return, or at the draft along with picks to move up a few spots

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

This should be a copy / paste response to any “fair” trade offer for Kreider.

Eh, I know it’s what many here want and expect. But contract and age wise, Kreider this year is essentially McD last year. Both known as good athletes (though obvious edge Kreider) with some mileage issues (close edge Kreider) considered to be first liners (edge McD).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kreider was in play more than we think right now. I’m not even sure I agree with it, but I think this board may be underrating the possibility he gets moved in the next month and over-expecting what he would return.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Eh, I know it’s what many here want and expect. But contract and age wise, Kreider this year is essentially McD last year. Both known as good athletes (though obvious edge Kreider) with some mileage issues (close edge Kreider) considered to be first liners (edge McD).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kreider was in play more than we think right now. I’m not even sure I agree with it, but I think this board may be underrating the possibility he gets moved in the next month and over-expecting what he would return.

I know an extension can't be signed until 7/1, but the Rangers should be opening up discussions with Kreider to get a ballpark of what he's asking for and what it'll cost to keep him. They shouldn't let this drag into the start of next season similar to Hayes this year. If they think he can be signed for a reasonable deal, then hold onto him and get it done. If they don't like what he's coming in at, then they should be looking to trade him this deadline to maximize value or the offseason worst case scenario.

 

[kovazub94]

Eh, I know it’s what many here want and expect. But contract and age wise, Kreider this year is essentially McD last year. Both known as good athletes (though obvious edge Kreider) with some mileage issues (close edge Kreider) considered to be first liners (edge McD).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kreider was in play more than we think right now. I’m not even sure I agree with it, but I think this board may be underrating the possibility he gets moved in the next month and over-expecting what he would return.

There’s really very little similarity between McD situation last year and Kreider this year, starting with McD showing signs of wear down where Kreider’s performance trajectory is on the upswing. If the same was true for McD he’d be more likely to be resigned than traded.

Edit: Stepan situation was a lot closer to McD, and also I don’t think Gorton’s definition of rebuild implies bringing on ONLY teenagers or those barely out of it. Kreider is a type of asset that should be resigned.

 

[NYRKING30]

I love kale. Very healthy too

Don't forget about Quail!

 

[Ghost of jas]

There’s really very little similarity between McD situation last year and Kreider this year, starting with McD showing signs of wear down where Kreider’s performance trajectory is on the upswing. If the same was true for McD he’d be more likely to be resigned than traded.

The other item that isn’t being addressed was that Gorton also set out to change the leadership structure. On that basis, McDonagh had to go. I don’t think the Kreider situation is comparable.

 

[kinger8998]

Why are we moving these guys? And for what?

seems to be signifigant interest in fast, possibly start a bidding war. could wait until next season but either way he should be moved because in the end he’ll eventually nedd to be moved down the lineup to fit prospects that are going to need to play.

mcquaid should be a no brainer, claesson has been one of our better defensemen but our left side is going to be log jammed next year without him, yet alone with him.

namestnikov id be fine with keeping, on the pace hes at he’ll take a cut on his next deal. but i dont think hes in the long term plans, and i dont think he should be.

vesey doesnt really do anything for me. i guess i just dont find him to be a player we need to keep, so trade him for something

 

[FIRE DRURY]

The 'for what' is the million $$ question, but the 'why', at least to me is because 3 of the names listed are 3rd line, complimentary wingers and there's only 2 3rd line wing spots. Add to that we also have Buch, Strome, Andersson who likely fit into the same category, plus potential some returns from other trades, and you quickly have a logjam of 'role players', of which there isn't much point in keeping all of them.

IMO some of the above really should be moved, whether it's as part of a trade at the TDL to get a better return, or at the draft along with picks to move up a few spots

I don’t think we can move:

Hayes
Zucc
McQuaid
Fast
Claesson
Namestnikov
Vesey

And ice a team.

Moving players for future assets is 1 thing. Gutting 1/2 your team for anything is another.

 

[Avery16]

I don't think the return for Namestnikov, Claesson, Fast, or Vesey will be worth subtracting them from the team. Now, when their contracts are expiring? Ok. If someone wants to overpay in the meantime? Ok. But just to get them off the team in some lateral moves and to acquire a handful of 3rd/4th round picks? No. Same for Strome.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

seems to be signifigant interest in fast, possibly start a bidding war. could wait until next season but either way he should be moved because in the end he’ll eventually nedd to be moved down the lineup to fit prospects that are going to need to play.

mcquaid should be a no brainer, claesson has been one of our better defensemen but our left side is going to be log jammed next year without him, yet alone with him.

namestnikov id be fine with keeping, on the pace hes at he’ll take a cut on his next deal. but i dont think hes in the long term plans, and i dont think he should be.

vesey doesnt really do anything for me. i guess i just dont find him to be a player we need to keep, so trade him for something

There’s a bidding war for Fast? Which teams are trying to acquire him, and what are they offering?

Vesey is 3rd in the team with 11g’s. He’s on pace for 40p+. His value here is probably higher than what we’d get for him in a trade.

 

[Trxjw]

I don’t think we can move:

Hayes
Zucc
McQuaid
Fast
Claesson
Namestnikov
Vesey

And ice a team.

Moving players for future assets is 1 thing. Gutting 1/2 your team for anything is another.

Depends on what we get back. I'd be surprised if we don't absorb a body or two at the deadline.

Still, I have a hard time seeing us deal 7 players before the end of the season. That'd be pretty unprecedented for a trade deadline, even for a rebuilding team.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Vesey, Fast and others are potential add-ons to deals.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I don’t think we can move:

Hayes
Zucc
McQuaid
Fast
Claesson
Namestnikov
Vesey

And ice a team.

Moving players for future assets is 1 thing. Gutting 1/2 your team for anything is another.

On top of it, that's a lot of bodies to move and you flood the market at the same time. Moving Nash, Holden, Grabner and McDonagh was hard enough last season. Why double the work load?

Other than the UFAs, no one is a must move by the TDL.

And just a little something to put on the back burner: the RFA market is going to be unprecedented. Tough decisions (or big checks) are coming for Winnipeg, Toronto, Calgary, Colorado amongst others.

I think having some of these lower to moderately priced players available could come in handy this summer. If someone needs to shed salary, I would like to be on the other end of a Hagelin-Etem trade. Kapanen for Vesey; Brandon Lemieux for Claesson and a 4th.

This is a long game. We don't need to have the future roster set on March 1.

 

[Avery16]

Vesey, Fast and others are potential add-ons to deals.

I mean, sure. If the return is right. They arent untouchable. But I don't think Vesey is an add-on. Someone trades for Vesey. He's having a good season and it looks like he's got another level of play in him down the line. But we should also be open to extending him, or Names, or Fast, or Claesson, for the right price, if we don't get overpaid for them this season or the next.

 

[Lays]

I mean, I'm sure NYR will ask if Makar can be included, since they tried to trade up for him.

Doesn't mean they'll get him though. Makar by himself would be an amazing return.

We really gotta stop with this Makar stuff
We’re not getting him and the Avs have 0 incentive to move him. The more his name is brought up, the more Ranger fans get disappointed with the return. Just like how we thought we were getting Sergachev last year

(Also this post isn’t singling you out, you’re being rational. Just the first post I saw when I clicked in and I’m tired of the Makar talk)

 

[mike14]

I don’t think we can move:

Hayes
Zucc
McQuaid
Fast
Claesson
Namestnikov
Vesey

And ice a team.

Moving players for future assets is 1 thing. Gutting 1/2 your team for anything is another.

Yeah you probably wouldn't move 5 forwards, but 3 doesn't seem excessive and you'd likely get at least a warm body back due to cap issues, let alone the guys in Hartford. We had a CF on defence to end last season so I can't see why they wouldn't/couldn't do that again. Then attempt move 1-2 more at the deadline.
I guess the options are
1. Keep all these guys and have a overabundance of '3rd line' wingers
2. Look to move them (likely as parts of bigger deals at the TDL and draft)
3. Keep them until their current contracts expire and then let them walk as FAs/un-qualified RFAs

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Idc at all costs I keep Quickie because he’s worth more to our team then what others will offer.

 

[Tawnos]

We really gotta stop with this Makar stuff
We’re not getting him and the Avs have 0 incentive to move him. The more his name is brought up, the more Ranger fans get disappointed with the return. Just like how we thought we were getting Sergachev last year

(Also this post isn’t singling you out, you’re being rational. Just the first post I saw when I clicked in and I’m tired of the Makar talk)

This is even worse, because last year the Rangers actually had an asset worth Sergachev.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Vesey, Fast and others are potential add-ons to deals.

I’d be ok with this I guess.

 

[NYRFAN218]

"Of the two, Hayes is the more attractive of the two as a potential acquisition. He's 26, while Zuccarello is 31. He's a big center, while Zuccarello is a small winger. What do the Avs, arguably, need the most right now in their drive to the playoffs? A No. 2 center. (I said "arguably", as Carl Soderberg has been a very good No. 2 of late).
But there is almost no chance the Avs will trade for Kevin Hayes by Feb. 25, and here's why: The Avs are simply not going to give away top prospects or top draft picks for any short-term help this season. If Kevin Hayes had three or four years left on his contract, at his current salary ($5.175 million), they might consider moving a nice pick and/or prospect for him."

Why trading for Kevin Hayes seems like a bad idea - and almost certainly won't happen

 

[NYR Viper]

At the end of this rebuild we are not going to lack guys like Bowers though...

Sometimes it’s somewhat about accumulating assets that could be used for future deals

 

[Avery16]

"Of the two, Hayes is the more attractive of the two as a potential acquisition. He's 26, while Zuccarello is 31. He's a big center, while Zuccarello is a small winger. What do the Avs, arguably, need the most right now in their drive to the playoffs? A No. 2 center. (I said "arguably", as Carl Soderberg has been a very good No. 2 of late).
But there is almost no chance the Avs will trade for Kevin Hayes by Feb. 25, and here's why: The Avs are simply not going to give away top prospects or top draft picks for any short-term help this season. If Kevin Hayes had three or four years left on his contract, at his current salary ($5.175 million), they might consider moving a nice pick and/or prospect for him."

Why trading for Kevin Hayes seems like a bad idea - and almost certainly won't happen

Can our next thread have "mediocre-to-poor team" in it somewhere

 

[Trxjw]

Dater is a muppet. Who cares what the Avs need for the playoffs? It's not like their need for a #2 center suddenly vanishes in the summer. Not unless they win the Hughes lottery.

If Gorton and Sakic can settle on pieces they like then it seems like a no-brainer to me. Sakic needs to make some moves to improve that team. Their fans seem to be totally content with another losing season and a lottery pick but something tells me their front office and ownership isn't particularly happy with 3 post season visits in the last 10 years or wasting a year of perhaps the best line in hockey on cheap contracts.